Here is a hypothetical situation/question.....

Most bowhunters think about the rut year 'round. Yeah, the month of October is fine, and there are a few bucks killed then, but we know our real chance is during the rut (the first 2 weeks in November). Since we all know the number of hunters in the woods will increase with the addition of crossbows, we also know the buck harvest will, too. That being said, it is likely the season would be shortened, because we all know once crossbows are purchased by hunters, the PGC will not take them away from the season....therefore, to significantly lower the buck harvest, the pgc would have to eliminate the time when most bucks are killed during archery season, which obviously is the rut.

If the first two weeks of November are taken away from season, there are plenty of archery hunters that would go somewhere else to hunt the rut, and would not buy an archery stamp in PA. I think it's safe to say we would lose some archery hunters, especially those that live close to the PA/OH, or PA/MD border, since those states would allow hunting during the rut.

So, if a shortened would be a result of adding crossbows to archery season, would you guys who support crossbows, continue supporting the addition of them?

If seasons are shortened to exclude the first 2 weeks of November, and we lose some bowhunters, would any of the crossbow supporters on this thread still support crossbow inclusion during archery season?


Like I said, this is a hypothetical situation, and it may not happen. I brought up the idea, because I'd like to know your thoughts......

If they were to axe anything I would say their first choice would be to axe the first 2weeks as it is much warmer. But for Arguments sake they would axe the second half of the season I would still go out. I'd probably be just doe hunting but I would be out. Plus that would give me an extra two weeks to go bunny hunting and steelhead fishing. Besides if using a crossbow would get my dad out with me for and extra 4 weeks than what I get to hunt with him now I'd take that. I don't have to be out prime time in the rut to enjoy myself in the archery season. Besides we miss the best two weeks anyway.

ORIGINAL: thedrake

If seasons are shortened to exclude the first 2 weeks of November, and we lose some bowhunters, would any of the crossbow supporters on this thread still support crossbow inclusion during archery season?

 
While I am not a full blown inclusion guy yet, I will answer your question.
 
If I knew that the season would be shortened, any week or weeks during our current 6 week season, I would not support full crossbow inclusion. 
 
I believe hunting unpressured deer, having the time to move locations, having the time to target specific animals and keeping it a close range sport is the essence of archery.  That is why I would like it to stay a 6 week season or longer for that matter if the resource can support it.

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter
I wasn't ready for it to be honest, just about every place I hunt in 2B has seen a dramatic increase in hunters in the woods during "archery" season.  It has seemed to attract lots of hunters from the surrounding counties.

My experience has not been the same.   A slight bump that first year or two but I notice no difference now than I did before.

Don't know where you hunt but as access is more restricted in the SRA, lands open to hunting will see increased pressure.  Not necessarily more hunters just less room. 

 
Come hunt with me, It is common for me to see 4-5 x-gun hunters on the same 450acres as me in an evening.  On top of another 4 trucks with archery hunters.  The land is private and I do have written permission but, the landowner could care less about hunters. 
 
I am not saying that it is totally because of x-guns but, they certainly are a contibuter.  I realize less deer in the northern regions, gas prices, and the unlimited doe tags in 2B also play a huge role.
 
It was uncommon for me prior to 5 years ago to run into more than 3-4 bowhunters a year on that property.  I have other properties I hunt that are posted and private but, the one I am upset about was my prime piece of real estate.

But you do not want someone to use a crossbow in archery when it has the same effective range as other bows.  The actions may be different just as firearms but both shoot arrows the same distance. What up with that?

When they must be drawn and held back in the presence of game I will change my thoughts......

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: gooseman

"Of the 155,000 archery participants, 70,000 used a crossbow, 55,000 use a vertical bow and 30,000 used both. Of seniors who apply for and receive a free license, 4,000 used a crossbow, 1,000 used a vertical bow and 1,000 used both.
 
 

Ready for what?  After how many years of inclusion 60% of archer use crossbows.  

Ready for what ?? Say you gain 50,000 new hunters with crossbows, do you have room for them to hunt in your woods ?

One of my best spots is right behind my house. 400 acres about 75acres of it is woods. Been hunting it for 11yrs. and always harvest 1 or 2 deer every year. The property was sold this year to some other farmers that I know and I still have permission to hunt. The only difference is there are 4 other guys hunting it now with me (all use a crossbow). I really don't mind hunting with other people but two days before season they're putting there ladder stands within 100yds of my stands, hanging cameras up all over the woods and tromping through bedding areas. Before all of this it was nothing to see 5+ deer a sit. So far, I've seen 6 deer all season back there. Granted, I have several other spots to hunt it's just the simple fact that these guys (and this is not the first time I've had this happen) didn't do their homework. They know I've hunted back here for years so just put your stands in the vicinity of mine and you'll see deer. Not to mention, the deer have all gone nocturnal.........wonder why.

Hope your ready for this kind of hunting !!!! :)

ORIGINAL: gooseman

Hope your ready for this kind of hunting !!!! :)

 
I have experienced hunting in a crossbow legal WMU since they were legalized.  The quality of my hunt has not diminished. 

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

Let's be objective about it D.  There's two parts to the equation.  10 years ago number of deer in this state was much higher.

 
That is correct but I believe that the poster was implying hunting pressure.   
 
 
 
 

"One of my best spots is right behind my house. 400 acres about 75acres of it is woods. Been hunting it for 11yrs. and always harvest 1 or 2 deer every year. The property was sold this year to some other farmers that I know and I still have permission to hunt. The only difference is there are 4 other guys hunting it now with me (all use a crossbow). I really don't mind hunting with other people but two days before season they're putting there ladder stands within 100yds of my stands, hanging cameras up all over the woods and tromping through bedding areas. Before all of this it was nothing to see 5+ deer a sit. So far, I've seen 6 deer all season back there. Granted, I have several other spots to hunt it's just the simple fact that these guys (and this is not the first time I've had this happen) didn't do their homework. They know I've hunted back here for years so just put your stands in the vicinity of mine and you'll see deer. Not to mention, the deer have all gone nocturnal.........wonder why."
 
 
Doc says you have to move..You can't hunt near other hunters..I said the same thing and was told to find another area...I would like to hunt my own 60 acres just can't control all the perimiter hunters that show up the before season... 

ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

"One of my best spots is right behind my house. 400 acres about 75acres of it is woods. Been hunting it for 11yrs. and always harvest 1 or 2 deer every year. The property was sold this year to some other farmers that I know and I still have permission to hunt. The only difference is there are 4 other guys hunting it now with me (all use a crossbow). I really don't mind hunting with other people but two days before season they're putting there ladder stands within 100yds of my stands, hanging cameras up all over the woods and tromping through bedding areas. Before all of this it was nothing to see 5+ deer a sit. So far, I've seen 6 deer all season back there. Granted, I have several other spots to hunt it's just the simple fact that these guys (and this is not the first time I've had this happen) didn't do their homework. They know I've hunted back here for years so just put your stands in the vicinity of mine and you'll see deer. Not to mention, the deer have all gone nocturnal.........wonder why."


Doc says you have to move..You can't hunt near other hunters..I said the same thing and was told to find another area...I would like to hunt my own 60 acres just can't control all the perimiter hunters that show up the before season... 

 
As stated, I do have several other areas. It's just sad to see such a good spot get ruined like that........

went in to check my stands same spot i archery hunt and place where reaper shot his buck and i know alot a ppl heard about it they must of caught word were he shot it i had a stand 30 yards in front of mine 5 yards from another one that no one uses but is in using condition and 40 yards behind me and theres one 40 yards in front of my brothers and none of them were there saterday so my stand is definatly being cut off i will see orange all around me opening  day

ORIGINAL: gooseman


I was implying hunting pressure. You have lost 60,000 hunters since 2004, mostly due to smaller numbers of deer. Now add all of the new hunting pressure to that. You may not have been affected yet but you will in due time. 

 
No, we lost 60,000 since 1998 and the numbers have been tanking since then.  All of this before AR/HR.

Gotta love those nocturnal deer. I said i saw no daylight activity... i got, you have no bucks. I go out tonight with a spotlight and see 3 MONSTER deer within 500 yards of a couple of my stands... stands I hunted.

Im really looking forward to crossguns see how much further we can push them off the property and into darkness.

k, im butting into this but probably never to read my post or agruements again..

why does most everyone think a cross bow hunter guy is going to ruin hunting with archery? ITS A BOW, you can just walk around in the woods, and shoot at a deer, its not a gun...you have to sit in the woods, in a blind, in a stand, so forth...  You can not shoot a cross bow ANY further in the woods then you can your traditional bow. IN FACT you shouldnt, cross bows loose alot of kentic engery which is needed for penatration. AND NO i do not hunt with a cross bow, i've used on in ohio just to try it out one year, didnt liked it wounded a buck, my fault and the deers fault for moving right when i shot. So really i can't see the total harm in guys hunting with crossbows, i live around 2b and people have been using them, they dont kill a deer any easier then i would..hell ya gotta see the deer first..and its gotta be in range. its not a gun people its a bow. it does not have gun powder. I cant believe all of you that are putting another hunter down. this site is like hunters against hunters...Yes complain about the idiots..i've done it too. hell sometmes im probably that idiot to another guy in the woods. If anyone is looking to ohio and how they are putting all these deer big book deer down in archery, thats a state that has those deer. they didnt kill the deer cuz they had a crossbow, they killed it cuase they have them there...This is a stupid arguement but like always i had to throw my opinoin. oh by the way, i think its cool my dad can hunt archery now again cuase he cant pull a bow back. and oh wait, hes been hunting this year and he didnt kill a buck with his cross bow...oh wait same thing last year..so two years for him and now buck down using a crossbow....YEAH.

ORIGINAL: gooseman

2004 Pa License Holders  1,048,731       Cost  $38mil
2008 Pa License Holders    981,124        Cost  $38mil
                         Loss     67,607              Loss $0

 
Yes those are total hunting licenses sold.  The 60,000 number I am refering to is strictly archery licenses sold.  From 1998, which was the record sales year, we have seen the archery ranks decline by 60,000.
 
I did overhear several of the commissioners talking to each other and the hope of increased revenue was the topic.