5 NO
1 YES
2 LEANING FULL INCLUSION
 
Hmmm, doesn't seem 50/50 to me???????
 
Maybe the guys you included for crossbows doc have either tagged out or just don't care now because they are done after Tuesday. Clearly not a scientific poll. I guess we are all fractured as hunters and will bicker among ourselves until we have no hunting seasons left.
 
 
Nah, I just made that up. That is the motto of crossbow inclusionists who think it won't impact the rest of the states herd or season date limits/bag limits. That and "well, traditional bows are harder than compounds. So, you guys are second class citizens and we crossbow guys are third."
 
I hope that only one week will be approved for the rest of the state to actually SEE some idea of the impact this weapon will produce. Otherwise, it may end up adjusting or shortening the rifle/archery/late archery seasons, in no particular order. If I take a crossbow out in rifle season, am I a better hunter or just a fool?
 

Interesting in the report minutes for the October meeting, Roxane states "Cal said a lot of things yesterday.  He doesn't think xbows will shorten the season, for a least two years." 
 
Page 27
 
Also, that the general assembly will get the xbows thru if we (commissoners) don't. 
 
So much for the PGC's independence. 
 
It is VERY SAD any hunter is supporting this.  Might as well let fast Eddy make the decisions.
 

I use a matthews conquest 3 and also a Horton crossbow and depending on how I feel sometimes I use the crossbow and sometimes the Matthews in 2B. I think it is easier to shoot the crossbow and more hunters will crowd the woods during archery. That is the big problem with the combined season. The deer are going to be pressured more and learn to even get smarter quicker. I hope the Game Commission allows at least a couple weeks without crossbows during the season. THE BIG ADVANTAGE MAYBE THERE WILL BE LESS BAD SHOTS WITH THE CROSSBOWS. ANYONE THAT HUNTS WITH A BOW IS SURE TO HAVE HIT DEER AND NOT FOUND THEM BECAUSE OF A MISPLACED SHOT. I know crossbows still aren't a sure thing but with scopes and red dot scopes people will have an easier time. Look at the long bow hunters they put up with the compound bow hunters and that is no more fair than crossbows being introduced in archery statewide.
 
2B-BOW ONLY
ALL THE OTHER AREAS IN PA- SHOTGUN ONLY LIKE OHIO
ARCHERY SAFETY ZONE- 50 YARDS
BAITING-NEVER
SUNDAY HUNTING- YES FOR SURE
SMALL GAME HUNTING AFTER ARCHERY SEASON (ESPECIALLY BIRDS)
4 POINT RESTRICTION (MAYBE NOT IN THE MOUNTAINS)
14" SPREAD FOR ADULT HUNTERS
NO ANTLER RESTRICTIONS FOR JUNIOR, SENIOR, ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY, DISABLED HUNTERS
ALLOW MENTORED KIDS TO SHOOT A DOE IF THE ADULT HAS A VALID DOE PERMIT
OPEN ACCESS ROADS ON STATE PROPERTY TO SNOWMOBILES AND ATV'S (HEAVY CITATIONS AND HUNTING LICENSE REVOKED FOR VIOLATIONS USING MOTOR VEHICLE)
MAKE ALL POACHING FINES 1000 1ST OFFENSE 5 YEAR LICENSE SUSPENSION, 5000 SECOND OFFENSE 10 YEAR LICENSE SUSPENSION AND 10,000 THIRD OFFENSE LIFETIME LICENSE SUSPENSION
PUBLICIZE POACHERS ON TV AND IN THE NEWSPAPERS
 
DON'T VOTE FOR ME AS A BOARD MEMBER ON THE GAME COMMISION!

ORIGINAL: Big Fathead

more hunters will crowd the woods during archery. That is the big problem with the combined season. The deer are going to be pressured more and learn to even get smarter quicker. !

 
That is one of the big misconceptions out there.  We would have to gain 60,000 new archers with crossbow inclusion to approach the number of archers we had 10 years ago.
 
Did we have too many archers then or were the deer too pressured in 1998?  I seem to remember hunting in solitude then just as I do now with the occasional stray hunter passing through. 

Back when it was 1 and done....

ORIGINAL: Martin Shooter

There were 60,000 more bow hunters 10 years ago?.....

 
Yes.  We set a record for archery sales in 1998, 328,000.  Last year we sold 267,000. 

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

It's not a misconception dpms.  The question becomes how much pressure is tolerable for a hunter ?  That answer has a lot to do with how many deer are available.  If folks are seeing deer behind every tree like they did in 1998, hunters are more likely to accept more pressure.  We have XX less deer than we used to.  The deer of 1998 were very young.  Today's deer aren't and they are not stupid.

Comparing hunter numbers and their attitude towards pressure is not fair without using the number of available game they pursue.  Especially since success is usually deemed as actual harvest.

Do you hunt highly pressured property?  Apparently not, or hunter sightings wouldn't be occasional.

 
Your reaching Silver.  While I will agree with you that there are less deer now than 10 years ago, I disagree that todays hunters are less tolerant to pressure than 10 years ago. 
 
As to where I hunt, my opening day morning hunt was on a farm game coop open to all that ask permission.  I was the only vehicle there.

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

It's not a misconception dpms.  The question becomes how much pressure is tolerable for a hunter ?  That answer has a lot to do with how many deer are available.  If folks are seeing deer behind every tree like they did in 1998, hunters are more likely to accept more pressure.  We have XX less deer than we used to.  The deer of 1998 were very young.  Today's deer aren't and they are not stupid.

Comparing hunter numbers and their attitude towards pressure is not fair without using the number of available game they pursue.  Especially since success is usually deemed as actual harvest.

Do you hunt highly pressured property?  Apparently not, or hunter sightings wouldn't be occasional.

Your reaching Silver.  While I will agree with you that there are less deer now than 10 years ago, I disagree that todays hunters are less tolerant to pressure than 10 years ago. 

As to where I hunt, my opening day morning hunt was on a farm game coop open to all that ask permission.  I was the only vehicle there.

 
I'm not reaching anything D.   You're only using one side to model your arguement.
 
If you want to use just one side, then place 10,000 hunters in one area without a tool to harvest deer.  Here pressure is meaningless.   Number of deer is meaningless too. 
 
Now throw 10,000 deer in an area, and 10,000 hunters with a hunting tool.  That's manageable.  Now throw 10,000 hunters with a hunting tool in an area with 1500 deer.  You say there's no difference in attitudes/tolerance of pressure between these two?   Those 10,000 hunters would rather have 10,000 hunters there for 1500 deer, compared to 1500 hunters?  LOL  You're funny!!!

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

Wait a second:

Did you really just type these two statements in two different posts?

----
I disagree that todays hunters are less tolerant to pressure than 10 years ago. 
 
Hunters today won't tolerate the pressure we had just 10 years ago. 
 
 
I see you enjoy disagreeing with yourself.    

 
Nice try.  That was a sarcastic response to your assertion. 

DPMS wrote= Many guys I know constantly complain of a lack of pressure now.  Go figure.

Do you really know many archery hunters who complain of lack of pressure???? That goes against the principals of, and reason for, archery hunting.

I guess it depends on how you define pressure. It's true there are fewer archery and also rifle hunters then 10/20 years ago. However, when comparing the number of deer today and number of hunters today as compared to 10/20 years ago there is much more hunting pressure per deer than there was. Also that does not take into account the additional seasons, DMAP tags, Special areas of multiple doe tags, longer rifle doe season,reduced safety zone for archers,(no more one and done) etc. All these items contribute to a huge increase in pressure on the deer. The only saving grace (from the deers point of view) is the increase in posted and leased land where the deer are being managed by other than the PGC. On public or open private ground you can't deny (I would hope) The pressure on deer is greater than it has ever been if you were to  total actual hunting hours per deer available.

Was the property public, private posted, or private non posted?  Were they shot during the week or on the first day or Sat. The math says that statewide there has to be more pressure per deer available. There will be areas where this is not true(Ex-Drakes posted 200 acres) but that would also have been true 10/20 years ago. The number of deer has decreased more than the number of hunters and the number of tags available and length of seasons and type of seasons has increased so statewide there has to be more pressure on the deer.

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

Wait a second:

Did you really just type these two statements in two different posts?

----
I disagree that todays hunters are less tolerant to pressure than 10 years ago. 
 
Hunters today won't tolerate the pressure we had just 10 years ago. 
 
 
I see you enjoy disagreeing with yourself.    

Nice try.  That was a sarcastic response to your assertion. 

 
That's the first sarcastic post I've ever seen from you.  What timing.

Perhaps on that particular piece of property but if the pressure is less on the deer how do you account for the increased deer kill the first years of HR/AR? And again, the hunter numbers have not decreased in relation to the decrease in deer numbers not even counting all the additional tags and seasons.

ORIGINAL: S-10

According to a PGC commissioned Penn State research study Between 1997 and 2004, Adult resident license sales decreased 6.6% and junior sales increased 7.8%. Care to comment on what the Pennsylvania deer herd did during that same time frame?

 
Yes, the buck kill was lowered because we are now protecting many of our yearling bucks with AR's and HR was designed to lower antlerless numbers which happened. 
 
The PGC got the deer herd where the biologists wanted with the hunter numbers we had.  If we lost 300,000 hunters I am sure we would see some adjustments in tags, if we gained 300,000 same thing.