run them full time with the other type bows..
 
I think one of the reasons behind the controversy is the fact that compound users will lose numbers... many many guys will take the easier method... remember I have never said shooting a crossbow was really difficult... but I do not think shooting a compound is that hard either if you can get it drawn.. you have it made...you do not have to work as hard getting a crossbow to "full draw"... that's the only difference in my opinion.
 
Will there be "bad crossbow hunters"  YES.... are there "bad compound hunters" yes.. you can read about them on any message board...
 
I've know many who bought a compound shot it 4 or 5 times and were off to the woods.... some even got deer 
 
we all know these type folks are out there... some just do not want to admit it and just use every excuse they can think of to hide that fact and say crossbows will be bad.... there's already "bad ones" out there guys ....WAKE UP... stop supporting all the "bad compounds" and pretending they do not exsist...
 
the sky is not falling and will not fall because of crossbows .. they will do nothing to your precious season ..... all they will do is allow many another method to harvest deer in more favorable weather conditions and less pressured deer........
 
 
Heck as soon as I can I'll be out there in that senior rifle season taking at least one doe....
 
what are ALL the archers going to do then... 
 
my bet is they will want crossbowers to "join them" and like that will happen....
 
.. wait and see..... it will only be about another 4-5 years .. THOUSANDS of seniors banging does in October..... and there will be SOOOO MANY OF US we'll need more than three days.....
 
I can hear the compounders now......    waugh.... waugh... waugh...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

What week do the seniors go into heat in October?
 
I'll make sure I'm out of the woods when that season starts.

I'll be willing to take my rifle in there in Oct whenever the PGC says "us and the kids" can shoot does with a rifle....

heck-- I won't even need a little purple pill to get excited about that ....

after all  ----- according to many here.. I'm just looking for the easy way out... and it don't get no easier than a RIFLE!!!!

So don't ask for my support when that time comes.....
 
Can you really image the effect that will have on archery season.. even at three days.... thousands and thousands shooting at does running thru the woods....  it will be just like the old three day doe season....
 
let's see how many bucks are harvested after that encounter.....

How about we ALL support crossbows and try to get rid of the rifles and muzzleloaders in archery...
 
quiet arrows/bolts       verus        loud BANGS !!!!!

Sounds like you have issues with archery season in general, regardless of what they use. Maybe the season itself.
 
I like what Jeremy said, a free for all from September to January. Heck, SC's season is 6 months long, lets go for it!!!

"Of the 155,000 archery participants, 70,000 used a crossbow, 55,000 use a vertical bow and 30,000 used both. Of seniors who apply for and receive a free license, 4,000 used a crossbow, 1,000 used a vertical bow and 1,000 used both.
 
 
 
This was from an article on Ohio in 2001. 70,000 crossbow vs. 55,000 vert. ? Are you ready for that ???

Doc... you got a 1000 twin brothers we dont know about? The baby boom is passed! As people get older they hunt less.

 
Jeremy... that has to be the most STUPID thing I have ever read that you wrote...
 
#1.. the twin part makes no sense
 
#2.. the baby boomers have NOT passed they are all still getting ready to be 65 or older.... and many folks are living to be 70 or 80  so they may have lots of hunting years left
 
#3.. it's true some are beginning to quit... but some (and it will be MANY..count on it) will think about staying a few more years to hunt in October with a rifle.....
 

 

ORIGINAL: gooseman

"Of the 155,000 archery participants, 70,000 used a crossbow, 55,000 use a vertical bow and 30,000 used both. Of seniors who apply for and receive a free license, 4,000 used a crossbow, 1,000 used a vertical bow and 1,000 used both.
 
 
 
This was from an article on Ohio in 2001. 70,000 crossbow vs. 55,000 vert. ? Are you ready for that ???

 
In my experience hunting 2B it has been pretty close to 50/50 x-guns vs. bows.  I wasn't ready for it to be honest, just about every place I hunt in 2B has seen a dramatic increase in hunters in the woods during "archery" season.  It has seemed to attract lots of hunters from the surrounding counties.

The no deer issue is a direct correlation to the AR/HR changes in the past few years. It is spotty in terms of truth or falseness in terms of who you talk to vs where they hunt.
 
The game commission DOES need more money. One option is to raise the cost of all licenses. Another is to branch off into smaller seasons for individual weapons and game. You can see where this is going with the current issues at hand.
 
There is something to history and tradition in hunting whether some think so or not. Carrying whatever weapon you like as long as it is legal does not make it right. You are one of the people who contribute to license fees and trust in the leadership to make the right decisions for your hunting seasons, bag limits, and priviledges. Their decisions affect all of us.
 
All of us want to band together and be a group. We have lost hunters over the seasons and will continue to do so because of our culture and fast-paced lifestyle. If we can keep a viable amount of hunters who can band together, we can still be a powerful force in determining our rights in Harrisburg.
 
Ace, you are leaving your opinion in the hands of someone else. Whatever is legal and expands our ranks is what is best for us.....
 
Stinks of socialism.

scab....

now you have a total of 8 posts and all are insults directed at me... YOU ARE AN IDIOT !!

Too bad you have nothing to contribute to this board but insults.....and that appears to be an acceptable thing here at this site....

time for a break for me.... see ya'll after rifle season...

BTW excellent post aceplayer !!!!

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter
lever action blackpowder 45-70 with a peep sight vs. someone hunting with a 300 Weatherby with a Leupold on it(during rifle season of course).  They are still both in the same identical category of weapons, and this is where the x-gun debate differs, they are not in the same category as bows. 

You make a great point against yourself.  During rifle one can choose a 45/70 or a 300 Weatherby, both guns with very different effective ranges and you are fine with that.

But you do not want someone to use a crossbow in archery when it has the same effective range as other bows.  The actions may be different just as firearms but both shoot arrows the same distance. What up with that?
 
In archery, the most important thing is scouting, placing stands and playing the wind.  the short range weapon in ones hands has little bearing on ones overall success if the first three are not carried out.
 
Probably the reason that data that exists from states with crossbow inclusion show almost identical success rates to verts. 

ORIGINAL: gooseman

"Of the 155,000 archery participants, 70,000 used a crossbow, 55,000 use a vertical bow and 30,000 used both. Of seniors who apply for and receive a free license, 4,000 used a crossbow, 1,000 used a vertical bow and 1,000 used both.
 
 

 
Ready for what?  After how many years of inclusion 60% of archer use crossbows.  
 
In Pa. the deer rifle used to be a lever gun.  While some still use them, bolt guns are in the majority now.  What's the difference?  Both still guns and we still have plenty of deer.

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter
  I wasn't ready for it to be honest, just about every place I hunt in 2B has seen a dramatic increase in hunters in the woods during "archery" season.  It has seemed to attract lots of hunters from the surrounding counties.

 
My experience has not been the same.   A slight bump that first year or two but I notice no difference now than I did before.
 
Don't know where you hunt but as access is more restricted in the SRA, lands open to hunting will see increased pressure.  Not necessarily more hunters just less room. 

ORIGINAL: gobyking

"The no deer issue is a direct correlation to the AR/HR changes in the past few years. It is spotty in terms of truth or falseness in terms of who you talk to vs where they hunt."

That's just it. I had people the entire time since AR/HR started saying there was no deer. The majority of the time I asked where they hunted and most park somewhere next to the road. walk 100-300 yards in and sit down. I'm not sure the main part of this has to do with lack of deer, but more so lack of people willing to go where the deer are. If suddenly you let crossbows out that isn't going to change that people still aren't going to want to walk that far. I don't see it as a problem if I go out and see 1-4 deer. I'm happy to be out and happy to see something. But truthfully I regularly see many more than 4 deer each time I'm out. Last year when I shot my buck in rifle that was the 22nd deer I had saw that day. In fact I have shot 2 deer a year in all but one of the years that AR/HR has been in effect.

"The game commission DOES need more money. One option is to raise the cost of all licenses. Another is to branch off into smaller seasons for individual weapons and game. You can see where this is going with the current issues at hand."

Why can't they raise prices and add a new season? I've heard several times from people that if they raise licenses they will quit. And now from several saying that if they let crossbows in archery they will start hunting again. Wouldn't this sort of even everything out? Just an idea.

"There is something to history and tradition in hunting whether some think so or not. Carrying whatever weapon you like as long as it is legal does not make it right. You are one of the people who contribute to license fees and trust in the leadership to make the right decisions for your hunting seasons, bag limits, and priviledges. Their decisions affect all of us."

History...Tradition....I have been hunting late season muzzleloader with my flintlock as long as I have been hunting. Tradition is personal. History is what you make it. THIS IS YOUR SEASON. If you want the tradition of going out with the flintlock after Christmas, as I do, you will take your flintlock hunting after Christmas. Though you can also take your bow out if you like. Just remember that at one time all seasons were new and had no history or tradition. Just don't try to make what you believe is right for you be what must be done for everyone. If you feel the need to hunt with a bow when crossbows come in do it. If you feel the need to hunt with a bow in flintlock. Do it. I don't understand how adding crossbows will suddenly destroy hunting. I am one of the people who contributes to funding the game commission. A commission who has experts far more versed in what is best for wildlife and the environment than I. Ya know those fenced in enclosures that they took down over here in the rothrock state forest grew up rather nicely I must say. Maybe they do know something about running this thing.

"All of us want to band together and be a group. We have lost hunters over the seasons and will continue to do so because of our culture and fast-paced lifestyle. If we can keep a viable amount of hunters who can band together, we can still be a powerful force in determining our rights in Harrisburg."

We do need to band together. But what good is it for Jim and Jon to band together and say this is something we need only to have Stan and Rick say I'm just not going to hunt anymore. In case you haven't noticed if a few people go to try to get something accomplished they are upset cause they aren't taken seriously. But if a large band or group go together to get something done they are heard. Well lately our group has been getting smaller. The more people that come back to hunting the better it will be for everyone and the wildlife. The game commission needs money to operate to do its job to right this ship and get the environment in line with the deer herd. More people bring more ideas, more support, and more finanaces.

"Ace, you are leaving your opinion in the hands of someone else. Whatever is legal and expands our ranks is what is best for us....."

If I want a wall built and hire someone to build it for me. Do i stand out in the yard and say I think you need more concrete than what you have to build this wall. I have never built a wall in my life. Have you ever managed a deer herd while trying to get a depleted environment back to where the carrying capacity should be? I'm not going to tell an expert who does this for a living that they are doing it wrong when I've never done it. If in fact you are an expert then you should go join the game commission and get things turned around as you beleive they should. They offer seminars and several education documents that if you take the time to read tell you what is happening. They have offered proof.....not just opinions.

"Stinks of socialism."

Stinks of an inability to comprehend that maybe...just maybe...this is not the catastrophic event that its being made out to be.

post edited by aceplayer - 2008/11/19 09:44:05

I like this spin by the game commission....

We have no idea what the actual numbers are of the deer herd, but we will never know.  Check stations wont be any more successful then report cards and could actually be worse.

Excuse me... DO YOU NOT HAVE A BEAR AND ELK CHECK STATION? Why dont you use report cards for them? I know why, because you want real numbers.