ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

 Arrow gun hunters seem to think they can shoot farther than bow hunters..Can you at least agree with that ? I put up 6-7 posts where I thought they were shooting to far. And instead of agreeing and saying yes some shoot to far..You argue that bow hunters wound deer.. I see no coralation..

 
I do not know any that shoot past 40 yards but I would assume that some do.   I have posted many times that the crossbow and vert have essentially the same hunting range.  Anything farther than that would be too far, would it not?  I have used 40 yards consistantly, so I would not agree with shooting father.  Clear enough?
 
And yes, crossbow hunters wound deer just as all other hunters do in all seasons.  I do not believe the wounding rate is higher for crossbows though.

Ok, let's back up for a moment.  If you take me literally, that people who buy crossbows are lazy in everything in life then you're taking it too far.
 
They might not be lazy hunters, but when faced with the decision to buy either a crossbow or regular bow and they decide crossbow, that has to be an easy way out.  They do it for a reason.  They do it because it makes the whole process to shoot a deer easier when it is within range.....raise up, point, pull a trigger.  Just like gun hunting.  Only movement is to raise the bow.  Yes you'll still have to worry about wind, etc but it IS easier any way you slice it.
 
It's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.  If you want to get into archery and choose a crossbow, then be prepared to always be looked down upon in the archery world as third class.  It's just the way it is and you can't make a case that it's the same.
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: CrossForkWookie

It's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.  If you want to get into archery and choose a crossbow, then be prepared to always be looked down upon in the archery world as third class.  It's just the way it is and you can't make a case that it's the same.

 
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion and you have good points.  As one who hunts with both I just try to clear up misconceptions that exist.
 
It is a bummer that you(I assume by your comments) would look down upon a fellow hunter because of his/her choice of weapon.  That is the classic elitist tag that has been place on many of the anti-crossbow crowd. 
 
And yes, hunting with a compound is different than hunting with a crossbow as is hunting with a longbow or recurve.  They all have their little nuances.  But they all shoot arrows.  A crossbow has disadvantages that would prevent a shot that might be possible with a vert. 
 
No different than one who chooses to hunt with a single action 45 colt or a bolt 300 winnie in rifle season.  Again it is firearm season and all are free to hunt with what they want. 
 
I have no problem with someone that does not feel crossbows belong in archery.  I do have issues with devisive talk and false assumptions and misconceptions. 
 
 

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

I'll bet ya $1000 I see fellas stalking with the wind blowing on the back of their neck, screwing up the hunter that has put in the time to understand the hairline sematics of getting close to highly pressured whitetails.

How's that for an elistist statement !!

 
That is a safe bet.  That has happened to me in the SRA.  Good thing is you will not have to worry about them killing too many deer.
 
Like I said, it has changed how I hunt a little and where I hunt but the quality of my hunt has not changed.

ORIGINAL: jlh42581

How about this, IF im wrong, ill admit it. If youre wrong you must call them crossguns from here on out.

 
I will call them crossguns if you call them crossbows and refer to them as archery equipment.
 
Deal?

ORIGINAL: gobyking

If a whole inclusion for crossbows is aligned with the current 6 week archery season in the rest of the state, next year will be a month and a half horror story in terms of bad shots on deer at overly long distances by new, inexperienced hunters some of whom are LAZY.

2B crossbow is a different situation entirely. JMO....

 
I guess my question is how 2B would be different than the rest of the state as it relates to your comments above?

A multitude of hunters who are new to to the weapon and its limitations. Some who will not practice as much to become proficient. 
 
It is the same with any weapon but it will be more noticeable with the amount of resistance it recieved prior to this approval. More people will proclaim it as a mistake if it is included for the full 6 weeks. Hopefully it will be only one week in the 5 year test period, starting out walking instead of running to see the results. Again, I am not against it, only think small steps should be taken as the other areas are not comparable to 2B.

agreed

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

It's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.  If you want to get into archery and choose a crossbow, then be prepared to always be looked down upon in the archery world as third class.  It's just the way it is and you can't make a case that it's the same.

So next fall... I'll be looked upon by the second class archery hunters as being third class...

and as I hang my deer do you think I will really care what someone else thinks ??

I'll accept the congrats from the true sportsmen on my archery season harvest and could care less about what the second class archers  (compounders) think ...........

I mean REALLY.. do you care that the longbowers and recurvers think you are second class for using a compound ?????????? 

To you guys who seem to think you are something special because you use a compound...

why not become something really special.. put in the time and eneergy to be a TRUE ARCHER.....  learn to use a longbow or recurve... what too LAZY to learn that ??????

Don't have the time to learn ??..

No desire to shoot a true BOW and ARROW????

Don't have the desire to practice that much ???

why not be a #1 true archer and learn to shoot a recurve....


Just why is it you use a Compound rather than a true bow... ?????


Surely the answer is not that the compound is EASIER to shoot


If that were the case you'd be just as lazy as us crossbowers

 
I should probably retract the third class comment and make it second class. 
 
Whether you use compound or recurve, it's the same philosophy.  Deer comes in, and you have to draw back on the prey.  It's that motion that busts alot of people with deer , it's that motion that defines archery hunting because it's an extra step no other method of hunting has once your weapon (gun or bow) is raised to the firing position.
 
Crossbows just eliminate one step in the process, and give it a point and shoot gun mentality instead of drawing back, locking your shooting points (string on nose, chin etc), and all the other things----human or not---that can go wrong with the draw process.
 
Crossbows you already cocked and "loaded" your bow ahead of time, all that is needed is a pull of a trigger.  That's not what true archery hunting is all about.  While shooting a deer with a crossbow is still a challenge, it's still going to rank down my scale between true vertical bows and guns.
 
 
 
 

How many people do you really think will continuously be out there with a crossbow. Ok here is how I look at it. In rifle season the first 2 days there are people everywhere and the first saturday there are people everywhere. After that the crowds disappear. Thats three days of heavy pressure in a 12 hunting day season. Most of these people who disappear you don't have to worry about anyway. They will go out. They will sit 50 yards from the car. They will not see anything. They will conclude the game commission is terrible, there is no deer in the woods. They will go home and not keep coming back out. I have been hiking anywhere from and hour and 10 minutes to two hours all season to see what I've been seeing and it wouldn't matter what weapon anyone had in hand none of the people around here will go that far back. To me its a non issue.
 
I just figure if a bunch of people quit after 3 days when they have a weapon they can shoot over 150 yards with. Why should we expect significantly more people all season with a weapon that extends there bow range to somewhere around 50 yards judging by what I'm reading people are actually shooting.
 
Oh and Jeremy. Maybe you should check out the Rothrock state forest down here in miff co. Its State land for all to hunt and each time I've been there I've seen between 4-12 deer...all only half day hunts. twice in the morning, 4 times in the evening. And with the new gas line that has been put in you have easy access to higher areas on the mountain. Plus I know its not a terribly long drive for ya.
 
Good luck this season guys and try not to spite your face by cutting off your nose. If crossgun/bow/horz or whatever you want to call them expand our ranks that is a good thing for hunting and the game commission. Remember a bunch of people left cause of the does so what is wrong with getting some back in our ranks. I don't know maybe I'm just way off base or I just look at things a little differently.
 

Use one all you want, your prob old enough to qualify for a permit. 

ORIGINAL: fishscab

Sure hope you don't pass on your obvious hate or contempt(mabee cause you can't join in)for standard archery equipment to all those young minds you will be speaking too..

 
Man, are you missing his point.  I see no contempt or hatred for any weapon in his posts.
 
 

Hey doc, ill make you a deal. You buy me a recurve, ill shoot it instinctively for the next five years and lay down the compound. Money is a factor and yes TIME is a HUGE factor with a bow like that. I have more respect for someone who shoots one but if I shot one I would think that guys with compounds dont have the time to be confident that they can guess perfect yardages and shoot that well. Youve gotta be an exceptional shot to score with a recurve or a longbow. That comes with years upon years of practice.

CAREFUL there Jeremy....

that sounds almost like saying compounds are easier to use and take less time to learn to use.....

Are you saying you use a compound because it is easier and less time consuming ???????????

Is that the same "lazy part" you guys are accusing crossbowers of being ???????


LAZY is one of the arguement you use against crossbows..

???????????????????????

but when faced with the decision to buy either a crossbow or regular bow and they decide crossbow, that has to be an easy way out.  They do it for a reason.They do it because it makes the whole process to shoot a deer easier when it is within range

would this statement not be the same then ?  and if not why not ??

when faced with the decision to buy a longbow or compound bow and they decide compound bow, that has to be an easy way out. They do it for a reason. They do it because it makes the whole process to shoot a deer easier when it is within range
 
or this..
 
when faced with the decision to buy a bow or a rifle and they decide rifle, that has to be an easy way out. They do it for a reason. They do it because it makes the whole process to shoot a deer easier when it is within range
 
 
 
 
Looks like we all choose whatever we thing is the EASIEST way in one way or the other !!!!!

well --  well -- finally 

we agree some weapons are easier to use than others.....

so why if some one chooses a weapon that is easier to use than the one you choose does that make him any different or less than you ??????????????

so let's see .. I am not supporting rifles in the fall season they make too much noise..

I agree they would spook the deer and we all want to hunt deer in the fall that are undistrurbed....  it's easier that way.... right ????


so we hunt in archery season becasue it's easier to get calm deer into range..


so should rifle hunters look down at archers because they choose to hunt deer at a time that is easier ????????

 
I just can't understand all this I'm better than you way of thinking because of the choice of weapons. ???????
 
Honestly.. stop and think how much difference is there in pulling back an 80%let-off and raising a gun when in a tree stand ---  both take about 2 seconds..... 90% of the time the dang deer ain't lookin at ya when you do it anyhow.....

Doc,
 
I think the longbow is by far the hardest way to harvest a deer and they get my upmost respect for doing so. I think your missing my point though, I know for a fact that x-guns are far easier to shoot than a bow but, that is not my major problem with them, just a side-effect of it.  My big complaint is that they are in no, way, shape, or form archery equipment.  Like I mentioned above they more closely resemble a single-shot firearm.  Not having to draw and hold weight back seperates them from archery equipment.