dpms
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/16 18:01:48
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ORIGINAL: jlh42581
Well thats news to me considering ive heard at least ten different people who dont hunt archery currently say that if crossbows are legal for everyone theyre gonna start hunting archery season.
When I was talking to several of the commissioners, I heard several times that extra revenue from new archery license sales would be welcome. Remember Jeremy, the SRA have been crossbow legal for 4-5 years now. Those that hunt there already have a feel for what the impact may be to the resource or the quality of the hunt. You will hear from both sides but my observations are not much different than before crossbows were legal.
My rifle is a black rifle
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jlh42581
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/16 18:22:06
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I dont think its going to effect me that much. I just think it shouldnt be grouped with regular archery season.
You can put crossbows in archery season and it wont have an impact yet for some odd reason a muzzleloader stamp gives you the right to kill a doe with a buck tag during flintlock using a flintlock or a crossbow. Why isnt my back tag turn into a doe tag in late archery season.
I just think this whole program is becoming rediculas. Rifles, Inlines and now crossbows, what is special about archery season. Please tell me. We miss the best part of actual deer activity and now its shared with anyone for any excuse to generate more money. I have an idea, just raise the **** price of a license and quit bowing down to harrisburg.
I think they should let the hunters vote on what WE want. Sign into the commission website, enter your back tag number along with another form of ID and cast your vote.
Really, we as hunters have no say in what we approve or dont approve of. Our only way of managing things is to be selective of what we harvest and wehere we harvest it. Buy leases to land, plant food plots. They create advisory commitees and then dont listen to anything they say. Its a joke, this state is a joke.
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Deadbolt401
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/16 19:36:12
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ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: Deadbolt401
Honestly, I don't see the big deal.
Yeah a Crossbow can shoot 60 yards. But I'm sure if you practiced a compound could too.
I've used both, and I like the Compound more.
It's not going to cause a huge influx of hunters all of the sudden.
I hunt 2b, and I rarely see another hunter, where crossbows are legal.
A fair and honest assessment from someone with hunting experience with both.
I hunt with both as well. Just nice to have the choice I guess.
In 2B, crossbows have not effected the quality of my hunt as well.
Yep, I don't see it as a big deal.
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dpms
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/16 19:50:35
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ORIGINAL: jlh42581
I just think this whole program is becoming rediculas.
Our only way of managing things is to be selective of what we harvest and wehere we harvest it. Buy leases to land, plant food plots.
There are alot of seasons, overlaps and regulations for sure but one only has to look at a state like Colorado to see how simple ours still are. My buddies go out there every year and the hunting handbook is insane. You could go insane trying to figure it out and what unit is draw, over the counter, point restricted etc........ Craziness. Anyway, you are right. Unless one controls a rather larger piece of property, it is tough to self manage the way you want. You are at the mercy of those hunting with you and what the PGC regulates. I guess the search continues for that elusive piece of paradise for all of us. Speaking of that, I got a call from someone that knows me and asked to come look at thier property because they would like some deer removed. Seems that the deer are eating the expensive shrubery.  Best of all it is in 2B where access is an issue. I will be paying them a visit to get the details. Hope it pans out and turns out to be a gem.
My rifle is a black rifle
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jlh42581
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/16 20:58:35
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I hope it does for you also, we all need somewhere special to hunt.
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bingsbaits
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 06:13:47
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ORIGINAL: dpms
Bings,
All of those statements happen often. Do you think it is just limited to crossbows?
Look at the forums on the green board. There are dozens of threads in the archery forum about wounded and lost deer. As a matter of fact, there is not one in the crossbow forum.
60 yard shots can be done with both a cross and a vert. The arrow drop for both is huge and both need to know the exact distance at that range.
Because of the extra noise of a crossbow, I would limit my shots to 40 or less. Yes people kill deer at 60 yards with crossbows and verts but too much can go wrong with either weapon IMO.
Been to alot of archery boards..You are the only one that advicates shooting 60 yrds with a bow..What's Doc think of that.. Not 1 post in the archery boards have people shooting that far,, not 1.. As an old friends mother used to tell us..."Two wrongs don't make a right" So your arguement is beacuse bow hunters wound deer you can shoot at deer at 60 yrds with a arrow gun.. If you are telling people to shoot at deer at 60 yrds with a bow then you are a moron and there is no more discussing this with such....
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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dpms
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 08:27:07
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ORIGINAL: bingsbaits
Been to alot of archery boards..You are the only one that advicates shooting 60 yrds with a bow..What's Doc think of that..
I think you are misunderstanding me. I have never advocated taking 60 yard shots with any archery equipment. I did say that I know others do and it can be done but I have never said I agree with them. I am confused by your assertion? BTW, I respect your opinions and do not appreciate the name calling. I have had nothing but a respectful discussion with you, I would appreciate the same in return.
My rifle is a black rifle
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CrossForkWookie
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 14:07:00
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There is a perception from non-archers that archery hunters have the inside scoop on the deer. That they get all the big ones before gun season. Now that X-bows are legalized, I do see a big surge of people who don't want to put in the time to be true archers.........buying their point and shoot "bows" and then thinking all they need to do is walk out in the woods and get their deer.
I know people who talk about how "lethal" their crossbows are out to 40-50 yards. Huh, and here I am taking no less than 30 yard shots with my Mathews and sometimes a 25 yard shot seems like 100 when you take into consideration branches and everything else in the woods. How these "sports" can rationalize shooting that far is beyond me. But I hear from them that they can and they're really accurate and they wouldn't have problems shooting that far.
I think allowing crossbows cheapens the sport, and is a sellout by the PGC in order to raise revenue in declining periods of license sales. Unless you have some sort of disability which doesn't allow you to shoot a regular bow I don't buy what they're selling. I view the people who go out and buy them as lazy and unwilling to put in the time to learn the skills that make TRUE archery hunting the great sport that it is.
It's an easy way out.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 14:36:05
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What does Doc think ????????/
I think anyone that takes high-risk shots with any weapon is not an ethical hunter.. and is only interested in the KILL and the bragging involved in such shots... nothing about the sport..
that does not mean they are not successful...
we all read about the 50 yard archery shots and now even same type shots with crossbows... but let's not forget those 200 yarders or better shots with a rifle.. and all those "shot it on the run" success stories...
I can not stop guys from hunting and taking shots like that..
I do not appriove of such.. but that's my opinion...
I do know they would NOT be in my circle of friends or hunters.....
that's a fact !!
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dpms
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 14:39:44
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ORIGINAL: CrossForkWookie
I view the people who go out and buy them as lazy and unwilling to put in the time to learn the skills that make TRUE archery hunting the great sport that it is.
It is a great sport. Do you classify all archers that use x-bows as lazy and unwilling to put in time?
My rifle is a black rifle
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dpms
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 14:43:56
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ORIGINAL: CrossForkWookie
How these "sports" can rationalize shooting that far is beyond me. But I hear from them that they can and they're really accurate and they wouldn't have problems shooting that far.
The same way compound users rationalize taking shots beyond thier skill level and conditions dictate.
My rifle is a black rifle
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CrossForkWookie
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 16:45:14
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For new people coming in, who are making the decision to buy a traditional bow or a new Horz (I like that term) yes I call them lazy. If your decision to buy one is medical related, so be it. But if it isn't, then yes that is what I'm saying.
Point and shoot without making motion to draw is not archery hunting. It's a different form of gun hunting. Getting within range of your prey and then drawing on them DEFINES archery hunting. Outsmarting your prey at close range and knowing when to draw and when not to is the quintessential point of the hunt that makes archery hunting what it is.
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dpms
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 16:59:39
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ORIGINAL: CrossForkWookie
For new people coming in, who are making the decision to buy a traditional bow or a new Horz (I like that term) yes I call them lazy. If your decision to buy one is medical related, so be it. But if it isn't, then yes that is what I'm saying.
Point and shoot without making motion to draw is not archery hunting. It's a different form of gun hunting. Getting within range of your prey and then drawing on them DEFINES archery hunting. Outsmarting your prey at close range and knowing when to draw and when not to is the quintessential point of the hunt that makes archery hunting what it is.
Getting close, scouting, placing stands and playing the wind will still be an essential part of hunting with a crossbow is someone expects to be moderately successful. A new archer using a crossbow will soon find out that a crossbow does not make the kill. What you define archery as is maybe not what someone else defines it as. No one is right. If the resource and our current season length are not compromised why the opposition. The guy three hills over will not effect your hunt or your season if he or she is using a crossbow. It is a bummer that this issue is so devisive and that stereotypes are rampant. There are "lazy" hunters in all seasons, crossbow hunters would be no different. I know many archers using verts that rarely practice. The comparison to gun hunting abounds when it comes to crossbows but those familiar with them rarely agree.
post edited by dpms - 2008/11/17 17:01:48
My rifle is a black rifle
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 17:30:56
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It's a different form of gun hunting. That being said I wonder if you consider gun hunters LAZY.... considering they choose to hunt with guns rather than bows... Do you gun hunt ??? are you LAZY too??????
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gooseman
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 17:41:37
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It's more the "added" bow hunters you will get. If it were long bow only in Ohio, my wife and I would be the only hunters on almost 1,000 acres. Not only that, anyone that has hunted with a long bow knows that you can't just draw on a deer whenever you want, you have to wait for the right time so that you not only don't get busted but how long can you hold your bow at full draw. With a crossbow, very little movement involved. Just click the safety off and you're ready.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 17:50:39
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Are compound hunters lazy because they do not want to learn the skills envolved in shooting a longbow ???????????? If your line of thinking about crossbow hunters is correct then that answer would have to be YES !!!! The way I see it -- anyone that harvests a deer with a longbow is #1... compounds are #2 and starting next year crossbows #3.... so be it.... I would never call another hunter lazy because of their choice of weapons or season to hunt.... If someone likes the added challenge of a long bow GREAT.... if they like it a little more easier.. then compounds ..GREAT if they like it one step more.. crossbows.. GREAT Folks enjoying the sport of hunting deer in early autumn.. how can anyone say that someone who chooses to do that is lazy ?????? and for those that like it REALLY EASY.. there is always rifle season 
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/11/17 17:52:08
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gooseman
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 17:57:40
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
Are compound hunters lazy because they do not want to learn the skills envolved in shooting a longbow ????????????
If your line of thinking about crossbow hunters is correct then that answer would have to be YES !!!!
The way I see it --
anyone that harvests a deer with a longbow is #1...
compounds are #2 and
starting next year crossbows #3....
so be it....
I would never call another hunter lazy because of their choice of weapons or season to hunt....
If someone likes the added challenge of a long bow GREAT....
if they like it a little more easier.. then compounds ..GREAT
if they like it one step more.. crossbows.. GREAT
Folks enjoying the sport of hunting deer in early autumn.. how can anyone say that someone who chooses to do that is lazy ??????
and for those that like it REALLY EASY.. there is always rifle season
I'm saying that you will have A LOT more hunters in the woods. Are you ready to share your favorite spot with 3-5 more people ? Because that's what will eventually happen.
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jlh42581
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 19:43:46
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gooseman
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 20:19:34
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 20:49:06
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goose... I'm saying that you will have A LOT more hunters in the woods. Are you ready to share your favorite spot with 3-5 more people ? Because that's what will eventually happen. I just do not believe it will be that many.. sure some riflers and compounders will pick up a crossbow and maybe even a few newbies... but they are going to be the same successful hunmters that are harvesting deer now... and 3-5 hunters in everyones favorite area... now that's silly..... have you not heard ... hunters numbers are FALLING..... not increasing.,.. too get that many new hunters it would take thousands of new hunters.. not hundreds....... 3-4 more hunters are going to show up in my area.. I doubt that.. to my knowledge there has not been a single hunter hunting behind my place on SGL #54... a couple muzzleloaader guys showed up and they got nothing for the one day they hunted here...went home about 2pm in the afternoon. no juniors or seniors for rifle doe and I'm aware of two turkey hunters for one day...last Saturday.. NOTHING.. but they did go somewhere else and harvest turkeys... so I am not worried about my areas.... BTW I do have more than just that hemlock grove ... that's just my #1 spot for Monday.. I have a stop for Tuesday.. Wed etc in fact I have a spot for everyday until I get my two tags filled... and I can safely say even though its open public land I will not see any one else hunting...but the same guys in our group... As I said --- it's too hard to get to the area back there..... guys would rather park in a parking lot with ten other cars...walk in a couple hundred yards and later complain about seeing no deer ,than have to really work to get to an area that has plenty of deer... and no other hunters.......
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/11/17 20:52:55
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gooseman
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 21:01:40
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
goose...
I'm saying that you will have A LOT more hunters in the woods. Are you ready to share your favorite spot with 3-5 more people ? Because that's what will eventually happen.
I just do not believe it will be that many.. sure some riflers and compounders will pick up a crossbow and maybe even a few newbies... but they are going to be the same successful hunmters that are harvesting deer now... and 3-5 hunters in everyones favorite area... now that's silly.....
have you not heard ... hunters numbers are FALLING..... not increasing.,..
too get that many new hunters it would take thousands of new hunters.. not hundreds.......
3-4 more hunters are going to show up in my area.. I doubt that.. to my knowledge there has not been a single hunter hunting behind my place on SGL #54...
a couple muzzleloaader guys showed up and they got nothing for the one day they hunted here...went home about 2pm in the afternoon.
no juniors or seniors for rifle doe
and I'm aware of two turkey hunters for one day...last Saturday.. NOTHING.. but they did go somewhere else and harvest turkeys...
so I am not worried about my areas.... BTW I do have more than just that hemlock grove ... that's just my #1 spot for Monday.. I have a stop for Tuesday.. Wed etc in fact I have a spot for everyday until I get my two tags filled...
and I can safely say even though its open public land I will not see any one else hunting...but the same guys in our group...
As I said --- it's too hard to get to the area back there..... guys would rather park in a parking lot with ten other cars...walk in a couple hundred yards and later complain about seeing no deer ,than have to really work to get to an area that has plenty of deer... and no other hunters.......
I'm not looking for conflict at all Dr. but I have lived with crossbows here in Ohio. I have uncles that use them and I'm sorry, but they are not the hunter I am. I am not a pro by any means but I do spend my time in the woods trying to figure out a whitetails brain. I'm just saying that eventually, you will have to deal with this.........other guys just coming in and "hunting" where you hunt......might even be family ???
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 21:11:52
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no conflict here goose.....
I see what you are saying and just disagree.....
I am NOT worried about guys coming into this area.. I have been hunting here (SGL#54) since 1960 .... and have always harvested deer and rarely seen other hunters... even in the days of parking lots filled to overflowing... I have always been miles away from those areas..... and within the last 10 years the number of hunters over-all has dropped off drastically around here .... many of the camps that have owners from Pittsburgh area will be here next week for bear then close their camps til spring.. they are hunting bigger and better buck down there.....
with thousands and thousands of acres to hunt around here I'll not have a problem moving if one of my areas does get invaded.... Too many crazies out there.. I do not hunt where other folks are period.....
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jlh42581
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 21:15:59
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You underestimate us, we will be there monday, you better not complain or we're gonna beat you back to being young again. We dont care about your number two or three spots, we want to drink your koolaid and shoot your deer!
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gooseman
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 21:21:07
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
no conflict here goose.....
I see what you are saying and just disagree.....
I am NOT worried about guys coming into this area.. I have been hunting here (SGL#54) since 1960 .... and have always harvested deer and rarely seen other hunters... even in the days of parking lots filled to overflowing... I have always been miles away from those areas..... and within the last 10 years the number of hunters over-all has dropped off drastically around here .... many of the camps that have owners from Pittsburgh area will be here next week for bear then close their camps til spring.. they are hunting bigger and better buck down there.....
with thousands and thousands of acres to hunt around here I'll not have a problem moving if one of my areas does get invaded.... Too many crazies out there.. I do not hunt where other folks are period.....
I'm 35 and have seen what can happen with crossbows. I'm looking for the future hunter "aka, my son who is 2 now". Make a long bow season and maybe the week before gun season make it crossbow season???? Pa just needs to feel things out before they just "Do It" A lot of deer will be taken with a crossbow.........mark my words.
post edited by gooseman - 2008/11/17 21:27:44
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jlh42581
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 21:54:43
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I agree, i fully expect the archery harvest to at least double.
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thedrake
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 22:25:21
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It's certainly going to be more than it is now. I just hope it's not going to be too high.
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gobyking
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/17 22:33:18
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Gooseman is making much more sense of it than I could try. That is what I've been trying to say and the PGC still has not set the dates or lengths of the crossbow season, so it is still in debate. It should be only one week outside of the current areas it is legal since the two are completely different habitat(i.e. cities and suburbs vs the rest of the state). Make it similar to the muzzleloader season and the impact will be much less, along with the "its a whole new way to hunt. Easier." Even though that may not be true, that will be the perception of the lazy hunter to crossbows regardless of his earlier hunting experience. That is not to say a minor percentage of current crossbow hunters are, but lazy hunters are everywhere and in every game season. Look for the rifle road hunter coming in 2 weeks out of his truck. If a whole inclusion for crossbows is aligned with the current 6 week archery season in the rest of the state, next year will be a month and a half horror story in terms of bad shots on deer at overly long distances by new, inexperienced hunters some of whom are LAZY. 2B crossbow is a different situation entirely. JMO....
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bingsbaits
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/18 07:26:57
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Look at the forums on the green board. There are dozens of threads in the archery forum about wounded and lost deer. As a matter of fact, there is not one in the crossbow forum.
So why does that make it right for Arrow gun users to shoot 50yrds...
I never said there weren't deer wounded with the bow..Just don't want to see more wounded deer..
All I tried to do was make a point. Arrow gun hunters seem to think they can shoot farther than bow hunters..Can you at least agree with that ? I put up 6-7 posts where I thought they were shooting to far. And instead of agreeing and saying yes some shoot to far..You argue that bow hunters wound deer.. I see no coralation..Talking about arrow guns not bows...
Dp didn't call you a moron unless you advocate shooting 60 yrds with an arrow gun..
"Too many crazies out there.. I do not hunt where other folks are period"..... You don't hold a very high opinion of other hunters do you doc.With that attitude you will not be hunting in my corner of the state..
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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dpms
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/18 07:43:03
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ORIGINAL: jlh42581
I agree, i fully expect the archery harvest to at least double.
Can I hold you too that if it is given final approval? What do you want to put on it?
My rifle is a black rifle
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dpms
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RE: Welcome to archery
2008/11/18 07:45:12
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ORIGINAL: gobyking
2B crossbow is a different situation entirely. JMO....
Can I ask why the SRA are different when it come to crossbows?
My rifle is a black rifle
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