Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me? 
rapala11 
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/11 16:45:30
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no reel for me. string and a #2 hook with a big gob of worms. maybe some corn and a marshmallow too.
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DarDys
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 07:43:28
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ORIGINAL: rapala11
no reel for me. string and a #2 hook with a big gob of worms. maybe some corn and a marshmallow too.
I'm not stopping them this year then. You are on your own.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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doubletaper
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rapala11
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 08:03:51
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you guys are plain nuts. 
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DarDys
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 08:47:05
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ORIGINAL: rapala11
you guys are plain nuts.
Actually we are anything but "plain." If we were plain, we wouldn't be such egotistical snobs. 
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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Guest
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 12:05:29
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jolie
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 14:06:28
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You two timing, taper, you. there's no hope for you! and to think I got chewed out for feeding the TROLL... what does this do say to the several hundred anglers that were like cheering A.L. on?? I'll tell ya what- I'm bringing the biggest, baddest group of anglers from the "traditional anglers of Pennsylvania" to your next TU meeting.  Maybe you can have a ripe old time telling them why such a talented group of fishermen, needs like the states best trout streams all to themselves.  in the words of your own sticker "no thanks I can't be more polite than that"
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jolie
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 14:20:01
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Are You a Trout Fisherman? Dear Fellow Sportsman, A small group of live-bait fishermen met on March 21, 1994, to discuss the present situation of the trout fisheries of Pennsylvania. With that stated, the group is now formally known as "The Traditional Anglers of Pennsylvania" (T.A.P.). We as an organization are not opposed to the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission or any other angling organization. It is in our interest as live-bait fishermen to have a voice in what is said and done with the trout waters of Pennsylvania. It is a major concern to this group that we are losing some of the best trout waters in this State to: Fly-Fishing Projects, Delayed Harvest Fly Fishing Only, No Harvest Fly-Fishing Only, Catch and Release, Delayed Harvest Artificial Lures Only, Trophy Trout Projects, and Limestone Springs Wild Trout Waters. There's a serious problem arising along the streams and lakes that bless our State. The special interest groups whose financial dealings run deep in our State are receiving more areas of streams and lakes posted for artificial use only. Future generations of live-bait fishermen may not have a place to fish if new sections or whole streams are closed down to live-bait fishermen. Young fishermen use live bait the first years of their angling lives. If this current trend of closing waters to live bait continues, where will these kids fish? The Traditional Anglers of Pennsylvania is not a "kill all you can catch" organization. This is in large percentage catch and release group. There's nothing wrong with keeping a few fish for supper. Although not know as a fact, but it's safe to say, live-bait fishermen buy more licenses and trout stamps than any other angling group! This grass-roots organization is in its infancy stages but already there's talk of a few projects and programs in the future. well spoken, If I don't say so myself. If you going on the offensive,fly boys, why are these guys so wrong?
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doubletaper
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 15:35:48
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Conventional Fisherman’s Pride
(This is written in sarcastic font so don’t get your gutchies all bunched up)
‘T’-shirt, Red Ball Waders,
I don’t care about those fly-fishing haters
Minnow bucket, tackle box
Power bait really rocks
I ain’t no buggy whipping fan
And I can catch more fish than a fly-fisherman can
Gold Mepps, Rooster Tails
A net deep enough to net a whale
Treble hooks, Berkley line
I know the fish’n will be fine
And with my Ugly Stik brand
I can catch more than a fly guy can
Ripped jeans, crooked hat
I don’t care ‘cause my chubs are fat
Flat of crawlers, cheap gear
I’ll be set for all year
I don’t need the snobbish high priced stuff
I’ll out fish them with 75 maggots in a can of snuff!
-anonymous
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D-nymph
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 15:41:46
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steely34
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 18:03:44
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ORIGINAL: jolie
....IMHO it kind of make sense to make the very best 2% of trout streams FFO kind of make sense. I mean If we're talking limestone creeks with lots of bugs and big native trout- doesn't that kind of water naturally favor the fly fishermen anyway? wouldn't a worm dunker be at a great disadvantage?
ORIGINAL: jolie
.......It is a major concern to this group that we are losing some of the best trout waters in this State to: Fly-Fishing Projects, Delayed Harvest Fly Fishing Only, No Harvest Fly-Fishing Only, Catch and Release, Delayed Harvest Artificial Lures Only, Trophy Trout Projects, and Limestone Springs Wild Trout Waters.
So, what exactly are you and this group saying here? Kind of contradicting yourselves. And when you come to the TU mtg., make sure you sign up to give some of your free time to do some stream improvement projects. Also donate some of your hard earned $ to the cause.
"They say you forget your troubles on a trout stream, but that's not quite it..... you begin to see where your troubles fit into the grand scheme of things, and suddenly they're just not such a big deal anymore." John Gierach
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mohawksyd
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 18:18:41
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"For the supreme test of a fisherman is not how many fish he has caught...but what he has caught when he has caught no fish." - John H. Bradley
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WaterWolf
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 22:02:57
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I have seen snobs on both sides. I would have to side with the flyfisherman. Losts of skill and work can be involved while fly-fishing(sometimes it can be easy) but baitfishing for trout is really basic and doesn't really require that much effort(I have watched my kids do it). I know that the flyfisherman are not throwing their empty worm containers on the ground.
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pghmarty
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 22:05:19
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I know that the flyfisherman are not throwing their empty worm containers on the ground. The fly's stuck to a fish are just as bad
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mohawksyd
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/12 22:35:34
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Hey! It was an accident! 
"For the supreme test of a fisherman is not how many fish he has caught...but what he has caught when he has caught no fish." - John H. Bradley
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rapala11
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 07:43:10
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wow, i cannot believe this thread.......it's fishing, do what you enjoy.....it's that simple.
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jolie
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 07:47:09
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ORIGINAL: steely34
ORIGINAL: jolie
....IMHO it kind of make sense to make the very best 2% of trout streams FFO kind of make sense. I mean If we're talking limestone creeks with lots of bugs and big native trout- doesn't that kind of water naturally favor the fly fishermen anyway? wouldn't a worm dunker be at a great disadvantage?
ORIGINAL: jolie
.......It is a major concern to this group that we are losing some of the best trout waters in this State to: Fly-Fishing Projects, Delayed Harvest Fly Fishing Only, No Harvest Fly-Fishing Only, Catch and Release, Delayed Harvest Artificial Lures Only, Trophy Trout Projects, and Limestone Springs Wild Trout Waters.
So, what exactly are you and this group saying here? Kind of contradicting yourselves.
And when you come to the TU mtg., make sure you sign up to give some of your free time to do some stream improvement projects. Also donate some of your hard earned $ to the cause.
actually the second post is from TAP. strait from their website. IT does KIND Of make sense to reserve limestone trout water for fly fishing- but on the other hand, its not particularly nice to the many Pennsylvanian's that paid for their license too. I DID ask if you could catch trout with bait on limestone creeks. but no one answered. if we MUST discuss fly fishermen snobbery, shouldn't we talk about the special reg areas? many anglers hate them- as TAP says- they see it as favortism, and a privilege to a small group of anglers based on big money and incessant 'political' pressure within the commission. I was never intending to defend them when Rhine pointed them out that they were 'an example of fly fishing elitism'. I have expected someone to argue about the issue, but at Page 3, I think some people were past debate and reasoning.
post edited by jolie - 2011/07/13 08:14:25
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jolie
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 08:01:19
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ORIGINAL: jolie
...and to think I got chewed out for feeding the TROLL... what does this do say to the several hundred anglers that were like cheering A.L. on??...
Boy you guys liked that post, didn't you  This part of my point was serious. At any time one time there's 5000-7000 guests. No doubt some of them thought that A.L had a major point. We spent 3 pages telling him to quit worrying about the next guy, that not all fly fishermen are anything.. oh and quit being such a jerk! then taper posted the tee-shirts. my only thought was that, although taper's post was clearly a joke, some people wouldn't take this well (it will confirm their paranoia). on another post, when I called out AL for a rude post, someone pointed out that this was "feeding the troll", The Tshirts were much more provocative than anything I said. Everyone has a right to put whatever funny thing on-line they want to put... and thats tapers right... but on the same hand, I thought my reply was a funny, but truthful retort Wit isn't my thing. and maybe god won't have mercy on my soul. but was it really THAT hard to understand??
post edited by jolie - 2011/07/13 08:04:19
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doubletaper
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 08:12:43
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jolie, i'm not sure when all the project waters started, who initiated them (special groups?) or why. here's what i do know. trout unlimited has a big doing with special regulated waters throughout the pa waters. they are not all fly fishermen by any means. here are a few projects i helped in with tu. the tu chapter, in mercer, has helped keep cool spring project area in check. they cleared paths and made it easier access to project fishermen. the iron furnace chapter, here in clarion county area, has helped maintain little pine creek project waters. they volunteered to help constuct cover for trout in the streams. both chapters help stock state fish as well as raised trout. the same has been done on Neshannock creek. now the bait-fish organization wants the freedom to catch fish in these maintained streams without doing any of the work or support needed. well, well, is'nt that convenient? they should ask the fish commision to designate their own waters, do some improvements and see how far they get. just my opinion! (jolie, i did take you reply as a funny retort)  
post edited by doubletaper - 2011/07/13 08:18:37
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jolie
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 08:25:03
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ORIGINAL: WaterWolf
... I would have to side with the flyfisherman. .... but why is it important to see this as a matter of 'sides'? Lots of anglers do BOTH. Anyone who sees this as a big contest between techniques is Totally missing Rap's point- and he had some of the best posts in the whole thread.
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jolie
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 08:40:52
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ORIGINAL: doubletaper
jolie, i'm not sure when all the project waters started, who initiated them (special groups?)Â or why. here's what i do know.
trout unlimited has a big doing with special regulated waters throughout the pa waters. they are not all fly fishermen by any means. here are a few projects i helped in with tu.
the tu chapter, in mercer, has helped keep cool spring project area in check. they cleared paths and made it easier access to project fishermen. the iron furnace chapter, here in clarion county area, has helped maintain little pine creek project waters. they volunteered to help constuct cover for trout in the streams. both chapters help stock state fish as well as raised trout.
the same has been done on Neshannock creek.
now the bait-fish organization wants the freedom to catch fish in these maintained streams without doing any of the work or support needed. well, well, is'nt that convenient?
they should ask the fish commision to designate their own waters, do some improvements and see how far they get.
just my opinion!
(jolie, i did take you reply as a funny retort)
and I didn't really have any real problem with your post, either. It will stir the trolls ups a little, but hey this is the internet. TU does do a lot of things for trout waters, I'll give you that. on the other hand there's something wierd about the way you put it. first you say that TU Isn't an advocacy group for fly fishing... then you say "now the bait-fish organization wants the freedom to catch fish in these maintained streams without doing any of the work or support needed." if TU represents for All trout fishermen, than why can't the majority of trout fishermen practice their favorite kind of fishing there (bait)... Either TU does or doesn't advocate for a kind of fishing. In truth, many times It comes off as being Pro-fly fishing... actually, I don't know that much about TU. I've only heard the rumors.
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doubletaper
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 09:05:02
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i know what you're trying to say. but true that a lot of the members in both chapters i used to belong to weren't fly fishermen at all. tu is to preserve waters etc. a lot of non-fly fishermen don't neccesarily bait fish. i know before i took up fly fishing i used more lures spin fishing for trout than bait.
how the fly fishing only waters came about i'm not sure but i think this came up at the last few meetings trying to make the FFO areas as artificial lures.
while we're talking about special interest groups. do you think these people in TAP want to try to regulate hunting laws against special interest groups that get first chances to hunt the rut? early and late season special regulations that rifle men can't participate in?
anyhow. if we're going to talk more on this subject maybe we should start a new thread since this is more interesting than 'why fly fishermen are snobs to andlee?'
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Eriefisherman69
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 09:06:31
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Myself I have no problems with any fisherman or woman until they try to pull the Walnut Creek shuffle on an old couple on Elk creek.. 
Get educated, Get smart, And help. Move up or Move Over Don't wait do something now
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RhnstnCowboy
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 09:29:57
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Why has this debate turned into fly fishing versus bait fishing? I fish all the time and I rarely do either.
I'm not anti fly-fishing, I'm anti fly-fishing snobbery. Fly rods can be fun for chasing wild brookies in tiny mountain streams or chasing big wild trout out west, other than that I don't see the attraction. I've been fly fishing since I was 7 or 8 and I've fly fished many of the blue ribbon waters out west. A fly rod has a time and a place, just like any other rod. Its not a magical, mystical tool that only a few elite and superior beings can harness. Its just another way of fishing, no better or worse than any other technique. As for fly fishing in Pennsylvania, if I'm not in a tiny mountain stream chasing brookies, I don't see the need for it...
"Part of being a Leftist is the smug conviction that you and people like you are smart, while everyone else is stupid and/or evil" - T. Fleming
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D-nymph
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 09:53:15
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ORIGINAL: RhnstnCowboy
As for fly fishing in Pennsylvania, if I'm not in a tiny mountain stream chasing brookies, I don't see the need for it... For me, and me only, it has nothing to do with the "need for it". It is probably often not the best tool for the job. But for me, and me only, it's not about the best tool for the job, it's about having fun. I like zoning out on the casting rhythmn, tying my own flies and streamers, using them to catch the fish. I like trying to take that less effective tool, using it to the best of my ability, (which often is lacking) and working a little harder for that sense of satisfaction. Catching fish not for the sake of catching as many as I can, but for catching them on MY terms. It's between me and the fish, not me and any other fishermen. Sometimes less fish than a spin fishing partner, sometimes more fish, sometimes trout, sometimes bass, sometimes other species. It's just more fun, for "me". I like it. Local exception: flathead fishing. But then I catch my bait, bluegills, on flies.
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rapala11
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 09:59:50
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"It's just more fun, for "me". I like it."
excellent, d-nymph. this should hold true for any type of fishing. whatever it takes to enjoy yourself and the time spent outdoors. i had a buddy who had a ton of older fenwick fly rods but would only fish then with bait.....i guess he would be the devil to both arguments going on here. i still contend fishing is fishing is fun is fishing. too many of us (me included) get caught up in images and roles and what makes us think we shine in the eyes of our peers. we need to break it down to the most simplistic structure....fishing is an escape and an incredibly great way to spend free time.
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doubletaper
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 10:03:42
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ORIGINAL: D-nymph
ORIGINAL: RhnstnCowboy
As for fly fishing in Pennsylvania, if I'm not in a tiny mountain stream chasing brookies, I don't see the need for it...
For me, and me only, it has nothing to do with the "need for it". It is probably often not the best tool for the job. But for me, and me only, it's not about the best tool for the job, it's about having fun. I like zoning out on the casting rhythmn, tying my own flies and streamers, using them to catch the fish. I like trying to take that less effective tool, using it to the best of my ability, (which often is lacking) and working a little harder for that sense of satisfaction. Catching fish not for the sake of catching as many as I can, but for catching them on MY terms. It's between me and the fish, not me and any other fishermen.
Sometimes less fish than a spin fishing partner, sometimes more fish, sometimes trout, sometimes bass, sometimes other species. It's just more fun, for "me". I like it.
for me too. i started fly fishing mostly because spin or bait fishing got too easy. i wanted to develope and use my own creations and pop tabs, beads and feathers weren't making nice looking spinners when i tried to make them work! also i found it harder to catch fish when there was a hatch going on when using bait or rooster tails etc. " but for catchiing them on My terms."  that's it, right there buddy!!!!!
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RhnstnCowboy
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 10:21:36
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Catching fish not for the sake of catching as many as I can, but for catching them on MY terms. It's between me and the fish, not me and any other fishermen. I can understand the fun being in the pursuit and not necessarily in the catch. My boss is a turkey hunter and has shot many nice birds in his life. He no longer shoots them Just for the challenge, he calls them in, scatters them and then tries to call them in again. If you're not into catching the fish, then why use hooks at all? Snip the hooks off and consider a rise to your fly to be the end game.
"Part of being a Leftist is the smug conviction that you and people like you are smart, while everyone else is stupid and/or evil" - T. Fleming
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steelhound
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 10:37:45
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i fly fish in pa and ohio, and i very seldom fish for trout when i do it. carp, wipers, bass, panfish, steelbows can all be caught on flies. and like dt and d-nymph said it is a challenge. sometimes tying the flies is almost as much fun as fishing with them.
i would also like to address topdog.
1. get a thousand dollar camera.
2. join the "drake"
3. start smoking the stinkiest cigar you can find..
4. be sure to pack at least 3 bottles of over priced skunky micro brews for pictures later in the day..
5. go to a native stream and pretend you belong there and at the same time drive hooks through the natives mouths...
6. take pics of the 5 inch native for 15 minutes while planning your internet "TR"..
7. take pics of your beer bottles..
8. take pics of your cigar..
9. yake pics of your dinner food.
and now...
10. post your TR on the drake and hope someone wants to be like you...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.why not take nice pictures of the fish you catch. my camera is affordable
2.it's a good site
3.sorry i dont smoke, would you like some extra sugar free?
4 craft beer is good.
5.the fun of fishing is being in the outdoors and seeing nature the way it should be.
6.some people catch big fish with fly rods believe it or not
7./8./9. food and pleasures are fun. sorry if you don't like it.
10. someone must have not been welcomed with open arms
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D-nymph
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RE: Can somebody explain fly fisherman snobbery to me?
2011/07/13 11:05:28
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ORIGINAL: RhnstnCowboy
If you're not into catching the fish, then why use hooks at all? Snip the hooks off and consider a rise to your fly to be the end game. When did I say I wasn't into catching fish? I most definitely said I am into catching fish, just on my own terms. I rarely fish dry flies anyway I can ask how can you not get bored flipping 3" rapalas for 8 hours? But honestly, my favorite part is that initial take, adrenaline rush and first few head shakes. After that I land them, fine. They get off, fine. I have friends who get all angry if they don't touch and hold the fish.
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