eyesandgillz

 
If you don't want to travel, even a little bit, to improve your position in the deer woods, well....not much I can do to help you.

It might not be as much won’t as can’t.

If one works until 3-4, there is no traveling an hour or more on work days.

If it is a youth (and that is who needs recruited, right?), they can’t drive an hour after school on school days.

So, if neither of these above groups archery hunt (and a good portion don’t), they get to hunt 2-3 days if travel is needed. That is if the weather cooperates.

Travel all you want ...in rifle season even with deer around your still being held back from shooting bucks with AR's way too long now.
 
They rock alright ...for archery not for rifle ....I'll take that bet....try the 3 up zone where I live and hunt if you want to get frustrated trying to harvest a legal buck in rifle season. Like the weather isn't tough enough the AR's add even more negative issues.
 
How about a 3 day rifle season for bucks only in Oct. .... now that would rock !    

1A .....Crawford county ....we have deer just tough without hunters and tough with the 3 up ...especially on the ground . ...can't squeeze without being 100% sure ....it's frustrating year after year . 

OK guys...I appreciate the numbers and input  ...they (numbers ) blow my mind because I'm out hunting fairly often and talking to other hunters and it seems like bucks are really rare in rifle season anymore. 1A is a huge area ...not sure land mass miles but I'll accept those numbers...like to know the odds per hunter ,but it's a tough game and it's getting tougher....IMO.
 
Tough hunting last evening with the cold . 
 
Next hot outdoor topic ......lol    

🌴 Cap. ya got every right to air your grievance over ARs. 🐬

We both know (and we're not alone) deer are out there and many are bucks too, they just don't qualify as legal shooters, for us old duffers or anyone over the age of "junior hunter".

So, I'm thinking, when the junior hunters of the powers to be can no longer shoot any buck they see...... no more ARs. 🙉

👁 know.. 👁 know.... THAT was weally bad.. 😩

Oooo Kay I'm leaving. 😎 🕶 💭 ...

Big Tuna
Captain don't let the PGC numbers fool you.....guessament.....
 
 

I said I'll accept those numbers Big T ...didn't say I believe them .....lol
 
Going out today again ....not very charged up for sure...no snow here yet this season....to add to the pain. Friends all came back from the mountain areas ....skunked ...again.
 
Fields around here are loaded with deer near dark past few weeks .....all posted up tighter than Fort Knox as usual ......seen a few swamp donkeys dead along the roadways .... always wonder how long these deer live in these no hunting zones ? 

dpms, IMO the numbers of bucks shot is not as important as the % of hunters that get deer in each season. Although the rifle hunters may shoot more bucks I would say that there are many more rifle hunters than bow hunters in each season. It is hard to get numbers right because we know that the two groups are intertwined,ie if a bowhunter doesn't get a deer with a bow he turns into a rifle hunter for rifle season. In another post by I forget who,it was stated that the average buck kill was approx.17% I found that to be true when I used to run a big buck pool at work for over 30 yrs.I had approx 100 guys every year & the kill ran 15-17% from the late 1970-early 2000.It seems that the guys that usually get bucks with a bow did so again this year. Although we are still getting & seeing slightly bigger deer , but few x-large bucks.Although I am done hunting now,my 2 biggest bucks were before A.R.   sam

My biggest buck was before AR's also ...and I've hunted steady every year since AR's . We had a free buck pool at work for 25 years ...around 700 people or more ....most years rifle hunters led the way by a good margin but the last 5 years I worked archery hunters actually led every year and by a good margin....a really big swing difference in deer harvest numbers by hunters there.
 
To me big buck numbers haven't changed much over the past 50 years even with AR's . Real trophy bucks are far and in-between just like they were years ago. Also with crossbows, longer archery seasons and new technology like compound bows and cameras  I'd be willing to bet archers harvest the bigger bucks now days.
 
If I was younger archery is the way to go ....they have benefited the most out of new seasons, technology , and law changes over the years in Pa. 
 
Just can't do it all .......     
 

Well, it’s the last day in my neck of the woods and it is just pouring rain, which is somewhat better than yesterday’s ice skating rink conditions. I’ve decided to call it a season. And I’m not alone. None of my usual suspects are heading out. And that is sad.

Most of the group, not all, some are younger (40’s), were of the era when deer hunting in PA was the most important time and event of the year. These were the guys that when changing job negotiated in having off the opening day. They recall their Dad shopping for cars (SUV, except for the International Scout didn’t exist, and trucks were for guys who needed them for work or to haul wood or coal to heat the house) and the first, most important feature was if 2-3 deer would fit in the trunk. They drove “to the woods” to go hunting, sometimes for hours, then did it again the next day, if they didn’t belong to a camp.

Now, these guys are looking for reasons not to go out — light rain, wind, gotta run errands, etc. Keep in mind, these are the guys that broke trail through thigh-high new snow; hunted at temperatures well below zero (I had the finish crack on a Sako Forrester from the cold); hunted in the remnants of a hurricane; and did it all in clothing, boots, and other gear that, at its best, would be up to par with the cheapest of the cheap junk today.

What’s the difference?

We saw deer and shot deer. Those who have been posting about their best season ever, well, that was the norm, even for the less than average hunter. For those that knew what they were doing, and a lot did, mostly because the meat was supplemental ( not subsistence, except for those in college at the time — lol) and it was counted on.

From age 14 to 50, I spent two days hunting deer that I didn’t kill one and one of those days I could have but was heck bent on getting a deer in front of my college roommate (he had never hunted before) and passed on many in the effort. This was fun. If you didn’t get a chance at a deer, wait 30 minutes and you would get another opportunity.

The last 8 times out this year, including 4 times in the general season, I saw one deer — the wounded one from my neighbor’s. This is not fun.

This is a property we used to drive by and dream of hunting. And it still should be a dream property. Oak ridges to the north and south. Creek bottom in the middle. Truck farmer to the East. Farmer that produces alfalfa to the west. Me having 3 acres of a mixture that was Biologic before there was Biologic (my wife’s grandfather sold it to Virginia horse farms). A mountain of SGL within 1.5 miles. Except for the SGL, all posted solid as Sears used to be with know hunters on each parcel.

What is disturbing is that the guys I used to hunt with (some I fished with) are scattered about in a 25 mile radius and for the most part, having the same results.

When we bought this property 5 years ago, you physically saw deer every day. There were trail camera pictures every day and night. It was not unusual to see 25-30 different shooter bucks on camera, especially at night during the last two weeks of archery (that is why my wife bought me a crossbow). Four years ago I had 7 different shooter bucks on camera, during the daylight, in a period of 1.75 hours (of course, I was working that day, but I killed one the next day).

Now, I’ve had less than 10 shooter bucks on camera since their antlers were grown enough to tell. Does on camera are a every 3-4 night schedule. And we go a week or more without physically seeing a deer all year long.

It’s not like they are over hunted — we know everyone around and what they get (we have killed exactly 3 deer on my property in the last 5 years, mostly by choice).

It’s not CWD, most folks around here are in their property constantly and not a single dead deer that did not have an obvious cause of death (wounded, vehicle, jumped off a highway bridge) has ever been found. In addition, not a single tested deer, including from the county’s largest processor has tested positive.

I cannot purport to know the cause. We have more time, better equipment, and more knowledge and experience.

But a former poster on this forum, S-10, always espoused that once deer density diminishes to 10 deer per square mile, hunting is no longer needed to control herd size. Old age, disease, and predators can keep the population at or below that level.

And that seems to be the case here. Or as good of a reason as any other.

My concern is that those not seeing deer, let alone harvesting them, both old and young, will simply fade away, not going for this or that reason, until one day a few seasons have gone by and they not only haven’t gone, but don’t miss it. The hunter ranks will continue to shrink and in another generation, perhaps sooner, the PGC will no longer be able to support itself and they will have no financial choice except to be folded into another agency which no longer not only doesn’t have hunters best interests in mind, they don’t have hunters in mind at all.

Again, for those doing well, congrats and here is hoping for your continued success, whatever level that may be. For those not doing so well, I know from where you come.

So in other words, AR in your area achieved its intended result of getting hunters to shoot does and crush the deer herd?

Maybe.

No one here has really shot more does, probably actually less, over the last 5 or so years.

Big Tuna
I'm done buying a license.....oh I forgot I have a SL....lol

😜 I didn't even do that this year. Not likely to apply next season.

Gave 90% of my guns away and thinking of selling cross and compound bows along with groundblind and ladder stands.

Relatives get first dibs.


In other news.... my younger brother killed 🤔..... harvested a nice 10 point yesterday ( Fri the 13th) so with that luck, I asked him to buy me a couple of lottery tickets.

He kindly responded, he'd like to help me out but with yesterdays weather conditions, it sure as hell would have been nice, had I been around to help "him" out.

Guess he had a tough drag, with no snow and all. 😁

Dardys  yours is a typical description of similar rifle hunting way over here on the west side of our state. I'm only 10 miles from the Ohio line so I'm about as west as one can hunt. I also gave up Thurs. just not fun, just not worth going . Seems anymore the first day is it for rifle season and if it's bad weather good luck. Like I said this Sat. opener proved no big advantage as Monday was mostly dead around here. I doubt next year's added Sunday will be a big deal.
 
Doe hunting is still half decent in some areas and anymore that's all there is for our area with the 3 up AR restriction. It's just too tough to see these deer racks and count when they are moving, or mingling through saplings....very frustrating when you only get limited opportunities at shots at bucks you rarely see.  
 
I can honestly say that I've not heard of anyone I know shooting a legal buck this rifle season out of at least 20 hunters. I know..... they all hunt local and the mountain areas . I know many did not even harvest a doe ! ...but anymore this has been the norm .
 
Can't say I've heard or seen a trophy buck this year in all the seasons . Did see a few decent ones shot in archery season by some friends.
 
 
 
       

Wrapping up rifle season we have 10 doe and 3 buck off of dads, and 2 buck from behind the house all seasons to this point included in that total.

I’m curious to what the cameras get in the coming months. I know of one real dandy buck 140”+ take that we had photos of, and some others from the That I only had photos texted to me that I have no idea who shot them, very local.

Good season, wasn’t always easy at times was a grind, and some came in on a string. That’s hunting. Good memories that we shared with family and friends

Glad it's finally over ! Got woke up yesterday to my asshat buddy making me go hunt in the rain lol short on guys but we got 4 drives in managed 1 doe I personally ended the season with my 3 does and eating my buck tag I'll have plenty of meat for the year. Was a pretty good year for us over all few nice bucks and plenty of does . Another year grinding it out till the end