Helpful ReplyHot!Well how about the new Sat. opener ?

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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/05 22:42:37 (permalink)
 
lost sage rod sectio
Pa. has become the apple deer state. I live in NW PA and they do kill some nice bucks around here but when you feed them all summer and give them salt They come for there treat and the hunters kill them no I'm not bitter because I lived in a time when you went to the woods and hunted fair chase, and enjoyed every minute of it. Its the PGC problem now and they will take care of it.!!!!!



a few years ago they caught guys hunting on private property in mercer county ,all hunting over bushels of corn spread out...just happen to be the property owners ....oh yea their property was heavily posted also...what a challenge , what great hunters too !
 
Around here they plant food plots just to bring them in all fall...to their hunting areas of course !
 
I hear Pa. is going purple ! Every tree in the state will be sprayed purple soon ...what a joke this idea is .... this will be abused by people that don't even own the land or want anybody in their secret hunting area. Who's going to know ? Better yet who's going to erase it once it's purple ? Nobody...that's who  ! This might be the death blow for future hunting .
 
I'll say it again the PCG has screwed deer hunting up so bad the past 20 years it's a wonder any young hunters will hold an interest ...every year they change regulations ...anything to justify their jobs....and if you believe those figures and numbers they put out ...keep dreaming ! And after 17 years of AR's bucks still can't get over 2.5 years old ...so much for that working great . Take 300k hunters out of the woods like has happened and post up miles and miles of property and bucks have to get somewhat bigger ...even without AR's.
 
Welcome to Pa. the land of Doe hunting.,...Santa's going to be mad come Saturday !!!!...lol   
 
#31
eyesandgillz
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/06 08:49:28 (permalink)
CAPTAIN HOOK
 
lost sage rod sectio
Pa. has become the apple deer state. I live in NW PA and they do kill some nice bucks around here but when you feed them all summer and give them salt They come for there treat and the hunters kill them no I'm not bitter because I lived in a time when you went to the woods and hunted fair chase, and enjoyed every minute of it. Its the PGC problem now and they will take care of it.!!!!!



a few years ago they caught guys hunting on private property in mercer county ,all hunting over bushels of corn spread out...just happen to be the property owners ....oh yea their property was heavily posted also...what a challenge , what great hunters too !
 
Around here they plant food plots just to bring them in all fall...to their hunting areas of course !
 
I hear Pa. is going purple ! Every tree in the state will be sprayed purple soon ...what a joke this idea is .... this will be abused by people that don't even own the land or want anybody in their secret hunting area. Who's going to know ? Better yet who's going to erase it once it's purple ? Nobody...that's who  ! This might be the death blow for future hunting .
 
I'll say it again the PCG has screwed deer hunting up so bad the past 20 years it's a wonder any young hunters will hold an interest ...every year they change regulations ...anything to justify their jobs....and if you believe those figures and numbers they put out ...keep dreaming ! And after 17 years of AR's bucks still can't get over 2.5 years old ...so much for that working great . Take 300k hunters out of the woods like has happened and post up miles and miles of property and bucks have to get somewhat bigger ...even without AR's.
 
Welcome to Pa. the land of Doe hunting.,...Santa's going to be mad come Saturday !!!!...lol   
 




 
Bitter much, cap?
Purple blazes would be MUCH better than the yellow posters....and no tearing down.  Death nail for hunting?  Sorry, I can't wrap my head around that statement for some reason.  Many, many states seem to do just fine with blazes on trees marking property lines.  I know, I know, it isn't PA....sry.  
 
#32
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/06 09:12:09 (permalink)
Eyes ya ever hear the ole saying "what goes around, comes around" or "coming to a town near you.... soon"?

Cap ain't bitter, he's tellin it like it is. Just a matter of time before it comes to your happy hunting grounds.

At a PGC meeting in Rocky Grove, Mr Alt stated one reason for the changes is "moving the predator to to the prey".

They're coming Eyes, get your purple paint ready.

As for Pennsylvania, such a shame, "once the leader" and now...... do you like being a follower?
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/12/06 09:13:11

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#33
anzomcik
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/06 09:39:09 (permalink)
eyesandgillz
CAPTAIN HOOK
 
lost sage rod sectio
Pa. has become the apple deer state. I live in NW PA and they do kill some nice bucks around here but when you feed them all summer and give them salt They come for there treat and the hunters kill them no I'm not bitter because I lived in a time when you went to the woods and hunted fair chase, and enjoyed every minute of it. Its the PGC problem now and they will take care of it.!!!!!



a few years ago they caught guys hunting on private property in mercer county ,all hunting over bushels of corn spread out...just happen to be the property owners ....oh yea their property was heavily posted also...what a challenge , what great hunters too !
 
Around here they plant food plots just to bring them in all fall...to their hunting areas of course !
 
I hear Pa. is going purple ! Every tree in the state will be sprayed purple soon ...what a joke this idea is .... this will be abused by people that don't even own the land or want anybody in their secret hunting area. Who's going to know ? Better yet who's going to erase it once it's purple ? Nobody...that's who  ! This might be the death blow for future hunting .
 
I'll say it again the PCG has screwed deer hunting up so bad the past 20 years it's a wonder any young hunters will hold an interest ...every year they change regulations ...anything to justify their jobs....and if you believe those figures and numbers they put out ...keep dreaming ! And after 17 years of AR's bucks still can't get over 2.5 years old ...so much for that working great . Take 300k hunters out of the woods like has happened and post up miles and miles of property and bucks have to get somewhat bigger ...even without AR's.
 
Welcome to Pa. the land of Doe hunting.,...Santa's going to be mad come Saturday !!!!...lol   
 




 
Bitter much, cap?
Purple blazes would be MUCH better than the yellow posters....and no tearing down.  Death nail for hunting?  Sorry, I can't wrap my head around that statement for some reason.  Many, many states seem to do just fine with blazes on trees marking property lines.  I know, I know, it isn't PA....sry.  
 


+1

Hook I respect you have an opinion, I happen to not agree with it on the topic of hunting in several areas. I know your experience has shaped your opinion, as has mine.

Eyes has mentioned already, your posts are read like they are nothing but a big complaining session, I know “your opinion”. But it should be mentioned with the amount you speak of the reduction of new hunters/keeping hunters blame is all on the PAGC, one can not think that doom and gloom posts (similar to the made by few posters on this thread) carry no weight at all. The constant bashing on our current hunting conditions will not help recruit or keep hunters that might be boarderline. Not everyone has lived your life and many hunters only know the last 20 years, there is no value is the constant distaste post, it only hurts the community.

The sky is not falling. we get it, you don’t like the current state of hunting. Have it be know there are hunting that have the system worked out are getting it done with great deer, making memories they can share with friends and family.
#34
outasync
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/06 10:29:09 (permalink)
I havnt hunted pa in a few years as its not cost effective. The last buck i shot in pa was a wall hanger and since then my brothers shot one thats even a bit bigger than mine. Him and dad have no problems filling 2 or 3 tags a year and the group of guys i used to hunt with dont either. Its learning to adapt. Just like the fishing. If what you have always done doesnt work its not because the fish are gone its just what you have always done doesnt work anymore.
#35
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/06 11:43:01 (permalink)
Dave.... or maybe it's just not as easy for an older hunter to "adapt". It's not that we don't see the elusive PA White-Tailed Deer. It's not that we don't see buck, it's more about we do not need to kil ... errrr harvest a "wall hanger" to feel like a the "mighty hunter", as some do on this board.

We only want fair and honest hunting regulations and less BS being spewed by the PGC.

If PA needs "wall hangers" to entice the "mighty hunter" to spend his money on bogus products, guns, and licenses then make the hunting laws equal for everybody, regardless of age.

Let's take away the opportunity for those not seeing a "wall hanger" being able to take their children out, and shoot the non-wall hangers that "could be, might be, thought it would be, a wall hanger next year.

Better yet... just do away with ARs and the BS that goes with it and put PA back as a leader and not, the follower it has become.

Capt. shame on you, having such an influence on future hunters. 🙄

Good for you painting the truth of hunting future.

Keep it up cause apparently you are getting your point across to far more, than the few, on this board, finding fault with your true experiences.

BTW, your years of actual experience doesn't count because it wasn't scientifically generated by some PGC biologist (hopefull) sitting at his college desk or written by some journalist (hopeful) sitting at his desk annnd most of all.... it is not what they see/do in other states. (that statement makes me wanna puke) Turning PA into a state that "follows".

However, if you could provide a link to some internet data base, that reenforces "your true life experiences".... it would still be ignored.
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/12/06 11:57:50

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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#36
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/06 13:05:03 (permalink)
I respect all comments and I'm not really bitter just frustrated as an average old deer hunter. I'm tired of shooting doe and passing bucks year after year because of regulations that haven't proven themselves. 
 
I guess I grew up in different times no doubt . Hunting was pretty much an open public sport , lots of open land, lots of choices, lots of chances, and more deer, and way less hunting regulations. Today hunting is become more "privatized in many areas"... especially around Mercer and Crawford county . KEEP OUT is a common sight on much wooded areas . Much less areas or choices to hunt now days especially for people that live close to cities like I do and lots of others.  I've deer hunted game lands and Alleghany national forests all open public lands most of my younger days now I hunt a small semi private area...mainly because I stay somewhat close to home.
 
Lets talk facts ....most guys that hunt heavily posted private areas get the bigger bucks why ? less or no competition and because others have passed on shooting ...well forced to pass would be more accurate ....but the bucks are still far and in-between in most areas of Pa.  I read 17 years ago that Gary Alt was guarantying lots of bigger bucks would roam Pa. woods with AR's and I personally see little difference ...same deal as years ago ..a small few get a nice trophy buck . Sure there's more big bucks seen now ....mainly because of new media to spread photos and info.... and like I've stated ...more posted private land , and way less hunters helps the most. ...and years ago most guys that got huge bucks never had them measured or bothered...most cut them off and hung them somewhere.
 
I don't sugar coat opinions it is what it is ...if your getting big bucks steady I guaranty you've got an edge somehow and with some it isn't all skill as some hunters I know like to try and brag....but there are some that are good and they earn it.  
 
Just like on TV ...it's much easier to shoot a big buck with no interference or other hunters around your stand or area.....right ?   Maybe a food plot close by helps too.....lol   
 
 I wish hunting was like fishing ....open to all ! Now that's a fair playing field !
  
#37
thunderpole
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/06 16:33:19 (permalink)
Tomorrow I bet everyone hears more shooting good luck , I can't wait it's gonna be crazy lol

I'd rather be lucky then good,but im to good to be lucky
#38
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/06 16:45:12 (permalink)
Your right thunder ....that's the big day in pa. deer hunting ....hunt safe ...good luck to all.
#39
anzomcik
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/06 16:52:58 (permalink)
Not sure about anywhere else. But there is 3” of snow on the ground here. There will be some shooting tomorrow
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/06 17:26:26 (permalink)
Hunt safely all and good luck.  Too danged hot and humid for me to hunt tomorrow, I'm gonna continue sitting this one out.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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#41
dpms
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/08 10:53:58 (permalink)
CAPTAIN HOOK
I'm tired of shooting doe and passing bucks year after year because of regulations that haven't proven themselves. 
 

 
The success rate on antlered deer is essentially the same now as it was prior to HR/AR. 
 

My rifle is a black rifle
#42
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/08 11:07:11 (permalink)
dpms
CAPTAIN HOOK
I'm tired of shooting doe and passing bucks year after year because of regulations that haven't proven themselves. 
 

 
The success rate on antlered deer is essentially the same now as it was prior to HR/AR. 
 


There ya go Capt. Fact is fact and I can vouch for that.

Many buck I had to pass on, ended hanging on a barn a couple hundred yards, as the crow flys, up the road from me.

So the age thingy is working, those buck were able to live a few minutes longer cause of my age.

Good point to be made though, walking away from hunting PA, I saved money and found other interest to boot. 😄
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/12/08 11:31:41

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#43
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/08 12:59:42 (permalink)
dpms
CAPTAIN HOOK
I'm tired of shooting doe and passing bucks year after year because of regulations that haven't proven themselves. 
 

 
The success rate on antlered deer is essentially the same now as it was prior to HR/AR. 
 


 Maybe with todays hunter numbers being way lower it's the same ....I find it hard to believe with the amount of past hunter numbers . Percentages are always mixed up with the basic base numbers.
 
Crime is down 20% from last year ....but last year it was up 30% ...sounds good to hear crime was down now, when it's still actually up overall.  
 
 The camp I hunted out of for 20 years usually averaged about 2 bucks a season pre AR and we killed some nice ones ....now it's lucky to average 1 buck every 3-4 years !  Same amount or more guys now, same area... all public hunting  ...as a matter of fact most camps get skunked fairly often from people I talk to....just what I know around Tionesta area.
#44
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/08 14:27:47 (permalink)
Capt your results stem from real life experience, over time.

Sorry, stats are not compiled like that in other states therefore, your true life experience does not matter.

Besides, it isn't what the PGC wants the hunting public to hear. It will have a negative effect and turn future hunters away. Which future hunters are doing be they young or old.

Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation to support true life experience, hunting the elusive PA White Tailed Trophy Behind Every Tree.

Only matter of time before others see it too.
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/12/08 14:28:54

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#45
dpms
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/08 15:54:56 (permalink)
Real life experience does matter. Never said that they didn't. Was just relaying some info about the reality of hunting today versus 25 years ago. Yes, we are killing less bucks but we also have 350,000 less deer hunters as well. Success rates are basically unchanged. What has changed are the population dynamics of the deer and the demographics and tactics of the hunters that chase them. 
 
I don't know about you folks, but if my true life experiences don't live up to my expectations, I change what I am doing because success is important to me. Where I hunt and how I hunt are vastly different from 25 years ago. 
 
The population dynamics of deer in this state have changed quite a bit. Many of the traditional "camps" do not see the harvest numbers of the past, so if someone bases their outlook on hunting deer in this state on that real life experience, it is understandable that they would feel is is not very good. But, that is looking at the issue through a small prism and not taking into account the state as a whole and what the information tells us. 
post edited by dpms - 2019/12/08 16:00:27

My rifle is a black rifle
#46
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/08 16:11:39 (permalink)
I must have misread, I believe you used the word "anecdotal" as in using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.

Good advice on making change.... I did, it works.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#47
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/08 16:15:26 (permalink)
AR sucks..can't eat horns and they get stuck on everything on the drag out jus sayin

Thread Killer

Veni Vidi Vici...
#48
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/08 16:35:26 (permalink)
Antlers......? ain't they dragging handles? huh... all this time I thought ya needed 3-up for a good grip.


🙄 oops dinner bell, nap time.
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/12/08 16:38:11

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#49
dpms
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/08 16:44:10 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
I must have misread, I believe you used the word "anecdotal" as in using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.



What I have said in the past is that anecdotal evidence should not carry more weight than hard data. 

My rifle is a black rifle
#50
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/09 11:16:17 (permalink)
I'd like to accept that hunting has changed but it really hasn't. The regulations have changed hunting . The AR's have never proven themselves to the point of no doubt they are working or helping greatly. When rifle hunters go years and years of not being able to harvest a legal buck how does this help hunting ? I've seen some really nice trophy size 6 point bucks over the past 17 years yet I was unable to shoot, not by choice by law . So why am I hunting all these hours, or years ? I thought the point of hunting was at least shooting at game now and then....oh yea there's doe season I forgot.......the PCG has no problem allocated tens of thousands of permits, but backs that season up to make it harder also.....what another controlled regulation joke . They had it right for awhile but nope ....time to make it harder for rifle hunters ....move the doe start day back 5 days !
Nice to see the PGC works to help hunters huh ?....lol
 
Why does the western area of Pa. have different AR regulations than the rest of the state on legal bucks ?  The PGC continues to over regulate without an explanation as to why. They are trying to raise trophy bucks like other western states at the cost of restricting shooting and in 17 years it's still basically failed.
 
Lets face it ....it's about money $$$....the PGC is restricting rules and regulations for rifle hunting to fatten up their coffers by over regulating and it's loosing more hunters every year and not encouraging most younger hunters . ....without shooting hunting is boring ....just like fishing and catching no fish ...it's just not exciting .
 
I won't blame the PGC 100% ....posted land has increased so much that there aren't many choices to hunt or change tactics or areas as some suggest. ....but there's always fishing...lots of choices, lots of open public water ...lots of fun ....for all !  
 
The PGC needs to reevaluate their thinking for the preservation of future hunting ...their regulations plans for rifle hunting have failed as far as I'm concerned....but I've only hunted 50 years in our state so what would I know about the sport .   
#51
DarDys
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/09 12:19:48 (permalink)
I was staying away from this one, but with the first week of the general season in the books, I guess I’ll wade in.

First off, for all those seeing numerous deer, numerous bucks, killing deer, harvesting big bucks, I am jealous, envious, and could not be happier for you. This is as deer hunting should be and I like nothing more than hunters (and fishers) be successful and enjoying the sport.

For those that aren’t having a great season, I feel your frustration and disappointment. Not seeing what you expect to see or having even a chance is disappointing at best and discouraging at worst.

Finally, for those who write that the unsuccessful hunters have forgotten how to hunt; don’t hunt hard enough; aren’t adapting; need to go elsewhere; etc., I’ll quote the great philosopher, Jimmy Buffett, “Don’t try to describe the scenery if you’ve never seen it.”

To be a little Al Roker-ish, here is what is happening in my neck of the woods — literally.

I hunters the Saturday opener. Saw no deer. Heard 11 shots in the morning, none closer than a mile. Heard 5 shots in the afternoon/evening, one at about 900 yards to the south and two at about 700 yards in the same direction. It was probably the same deer.

Keep in mind, I’m hunting my private ground which is surrounded by other private ground (all of it, except one piece, with a few hunters on each) that comprises about 1,800 acres. These private plots vary in size and make up, in total have it all — agricultural, hills, swamp, creek bottom, thickets, oak ridges, etc. In addition, these plots bound against an entire mountain of SGL. Further, the backside of that mountain is covered with Mennonite farms. Also, since this is a CWD area (although one had yet to test positive), everything except non AR bucks are legal.

Hunted Tuesday. Saw no deer. Heard one shot, not closer than a mile.

Hunter Thursday evening. Saw no deer. Heard three shots, 1,000
yards (knowing where the deer travel and who is hunting pinpoints the distance) to the north.

Hunted Friday evening. Saw no deer. Heard no shots.

Hunted Saturday. Heard two shots in the morning in the same 900 yard distance to the south as the opening day shots. Interesting thing is, this is the only “No Hunting” area in any distance. The only access is either through the property gate, which isn’t happening, or by parking along a limited access highway (illegal); jumping the fence (illegal); and trespassing (illegal). It wasn’t 15 minutes and I saw two ATV’s heading from the property buildings along the ridgeline toward where the shots were fired.

In the evening, it was getting pretty dark when I heard two rapid shots on the neighbor’s to the south at about 400 yards. In about 10 minutes, a does appears in the neighbor’s field. It was obviously wounded as it was hunched up and dragging its left rear leg. As I watched it, I could tell the shot was high in the hip. It was not fatal, but the deer would die by falling in the creek it was headed for; starvation because it couldn’t get around; infection; or caught by coyotes.

It really pained me to see that, so when it stopped on the neighbor’s farm road in a opening through my trees, I dropped it. It was my intention to call the neighbor and let him know that I finished one of his farm hands messes, but in about 10 minutes, here comes a guy.

He wasn’t within 45 yards of where the deer came across the field. He didn’t even have a light on looking for blood. There was no way he was going to find that deer if I hadn’t shot it. Heck, he couldn’t find it and I delivered it right on the road (Deer Dash delivery?).

I hollered over to him and voice directed him until he darn near fell over it before he saw it. I asked if he needed any help and he said no. Never did say thank you.

That was the only deer I have seen in the general season and in the last five archery trips. I have not heard 25 shots all season. But it’s probably me.

But, maybe not.

My outdoor writer friend, who hunts his family property (100+ a acres) which borders a sportsman’s club (400 acres) and a SGL, all about 25 miles NE of me, killed a 5-point at 10:00 on the opener. It was the only deer he saw, except for a 4-point near his vehicle on the way out. His was the only shot he heard.

He still hunted Wednesday and Thursday in the fresh snow for a doe (CWD area) and never saw a deer or heard a shot.

But it is probably just him.

But maybe not.

A friend who hunts a 1,000 acre lease (20 miles east of me) with 8 other hunters shot a dandy 11-point in the early afternoon. It was the only shot fired that they heard and the only deer any of them saw. But it was probably just him.

But maybe not.

A super hunter friend that had access to 60 prime acred (15 miles NE of me) that is literally borders by more than 1,500 acres of QDM private ground on one side and a state park on the other (we refer to the area as Buck Boulevard) saw a spike and a limping 8-point in archery; no deer the opening Saturday; two unknowns in the predawn Monday; and a predawn unknown on Saturday (nothing the rest of the week). He heard five shots opening day and no others. But it’s probably him.

But maybe not.

A former coworker hunts the state park behind the aforementioned property and he saw a coyote the opening day, but no deer. He heard three shots. But it’s probably him.

But maybe not.

My compadre who’s family owns 700 acres in Bedford County hunted every day dawn to dark from the opening morning through this Saturday afternoon. He never saw a deer until Saturday afternoon, when he saw two does.
But it’s probably him.

But maybe not.

My outdoor writer friend delivered his deer to the processor by noon on the opening day. Typically, this processor does about 1,000 deer per year, with +/- 300 coming opening day. He was #21 at noon. This processor does most of our county and parts of four surrounding counties. He is actually one of the few still around because CWD rules for disposal have ruled out a lot of the little guys. BTW, he saves all the heads and the GC picks them up for testing. They have never found a positive.

Usually it take a week or so to get the regular cuts back and until after the new year for specialty products. My buddy got the call that his regular cuts were done at 11:00 on Sunday, less than 24 hours after drop off. He had his specialty products two days later.

So it might not just be us.

I don’t purport to know what the issue is, but something is very wrong and it’s not extremely localized.

Best of luck to all y’all still heading out. And in the words of SGT Esterhouse, “Be careful out there.”

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#52
dpms
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/09 12:24:14 (permalink)
CAPTAIN HOOK
 When rifle hunters go years and years of not being able to harvest a legal buck how does this help hunting ?

 
But they are. The dynamics of the hunt have changed. Success rates are close to what they used to be when most considered it "the good old days". 
 
Why does the western area of Pa. have different AR regulations than the rest of the state on legal bucks ?  The PGC continues to over regulate without an explanation as to why.

 
They have explained it in detail. Ars are meant to protect a certain percentage of the 1.5 year old bucks. They have determined that in some areas of the state, the ARs need to be more restrictive than other areas due to several factors including habitat and nutrition available to deer. A 1.5 year old buck in the 3 up areas tends to have more antler than a 1.5 year old buck in the 2 point areas. 
 
I won't blame the PGC 100% ....posted land has increased so much that there aren't many choices to hunt or change tactics or areas as some suggest. ....but there's always fishing...lots of choices, lots of open public water ...lots of fun ....for all ! 

 
Posted land is a problem is most every state. In Pa we are fortunate to have vast public opportunities as well. Knocking on doors has opened up many areas for me. Do you place some of the blame on hunters themselves? Has every hunter with more years behind them than ahead of them mentored 1 or 2 young hunters that will carry on the hunting tradition and replace them moving forward? If every one of us did, we would not be losing hunter numbers. 
 
The PGC needs to reevaluate their thinking for the preservation of future hunting ...their regulations plans for rifle hunting have failed as far as I'm concerned....but I've only hunted 50 years in our state so what would I know about the sport .   



Curious if your hunting experience in the state has been diverse or not? Meaning different corners of the state. Public versus private. Posted versus unposted. Archery, muzzleloader, rifle..........

My rifle is a black rifle
#53
rsquared
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/09 13:12:34 (permalink)
dpms
 
 
They have explained it in detail. Ars are meant to protect a certain percentage of the 1.5 year old bucks. They have determined that in some areas of the state, the ARs need to be more restrictive than other areas due to several factors including habitat and nutrition available to deer. A 1.5 year old buck in the 3 up areas tends to have more antler than a 1.5 year old buck in the 2 point areas. 
 
 



This isn't really an "explanation" as to why we have AR's at all, or why they're more restrictive in Western PA than the rest of the state, other than to say, bucks in Western PA tend to be slightly bigger than bucks in the rest of the state because of habitat and food.  
 
I've still never heard any sound biological explanation as to why we have AR's.  It is purely and simply a ploy to get hunters to shoot more does.  Which, now that I think of it, may be a secondary biological benefit of AR that helped early on to lower some of the out of control deer densities in some parts of the state.  
 
I've got quite a few buddies who have been true trophy hunters long before AR.  These are the guys who have had access to good size chunks of private land and continue to have it, and hunt it carefully and selectively.  They spend lots of time and money improving, managing, monitoring and hunting their property.  I ask them from time to time if AR's have done anything for them.  They all say it has done nothing to improve the size of the bucks on their property, and in fact many complain about how often they see too many scrub bucks now because of it.  
 
 
 
 
post edited by rsquared - 2019/12/09 13:17:34
#54
dpms
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/09 13:18:43 (permalink)
rsquared
This isn't really an "explanation" as to why we have AR's at all, or why they're more restrictive in Western PA than the rest of the state, other than to say, bucks in Western PA tend to be slightly bigger than bucks in the rest of the state because of habitat and food. 

 
The explanation was to the question asked which was why are they different in one area versus the other. The questions wasn't asked why do we have ARs. 
 
 
 

My rifle is a black rifle
#55
rsquared
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/09 13:21:57 (permalink)
Fair enough.  
 
So why do we have AR's at all?
 
 
#56
anzomcik
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/09 13:34:37 (permalink)
DarDys
Finally, for those who write that the unsuccessful hunters have forgotten how to hunt; don’t hunt hard enough; aren’t adapting; need to go elsewhere; etc., I’ll quote the great philosopher, Jimmy Buffett, “Don’t try to describe the scenery if you’ve never seen it.”



 
This topic for several years always pops up about this time, the same players on each side... I really like DarDys post but only quoted a small section. 
 
I understand I am fortunate when it comes to the hunting grounds i frequent. When things get heated on these threads, i try to make light that what i'm experiencing isn't the norm over the whole state. I get some parts suck, i also understand there are parts better than what I hunt.
 
So the Dardys quote goes both ways, there is more than just isolated pockets of great hunting in pa.
 
Couple things i can add from my area. 
 
Our local processor when we dropped off my wifes buck on OCT 26th was number #106, when we dropped off my buck on NOV 6 it was #168. When they called me to pick up my wifes buck they gave us 2 days to get it before needing to charged a storage fee as they ran out of freezer space.
 
Opening week of archery dad (we hunt his land primarily) seen 5 shooter bucks (one being 140"+ we have photos of) in 4 sits, all different bucks. For us we consider the term a "shooter buck" in archery to be a 105"+ buck, usually 2.5 YO. Nothing set in stone but basic frame work of our wordage. We do not have rules that are above what the state sets, it is just what we do. We do not buck shame anyone, and there has been many 1.5 YO bucks taken over the years, its all good.
 
3rd time in 6 years I seen 8 bucks in one sit in PA, not all legal but at least a few each time it has happened.
 
First time we shot more than 2 bucks off dads in a season, we are at 3 right now (2 archery, 1 rifle) with another miss on a dandy 10 point late in archery from a family friend. 
 
First time we got 2 buck from outback of my house (my father inlaw 6 acres joins my 10 acreas) with those combined we have 3-4 hunt able acres. My wife and Father inlaws buck came from this area
 
First time every license holder in my family all tagged a buck (wife, dad, myself, Brother in-law, Father in-law) 
 
Often in early archery dad would see 20+ deer in a field and on the other side of his place Ill see about the same, same time, on the same day. 
 
Last year we got 13 doe and 1 buck off of dads, I do not think we will reach that this year but could come close, right now we are at 5 doe and 3 buck. Still have time left.
 
We are having a good year, We have noticed a huge improvement since AR. I understand it isnt across the board, but we have.
 
 
#57
rsquared
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/09 13:39:34 (permalink)
Anzo, I appreciate that you acknowledge that things are different in different areas, especially when you've got tight control of a sizable chunk of real estate.  
 
Do you think the improvement you've seen since AR is more due to the self imposed restrictions of your family members that hunt there, or because neighboring properties have to abide by AR's too?  Did you have those same self imposed restrictions before AR?  
#58
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/09 13:59:24 (permalink)
I asked this question during a public meeting held by the PGC when ARs where first being forced on PA. hunters and I'd like to ask the same question now.

The need for ARs, who benefits?


Also, for those promoting the ARs here today, what is your benefit?

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#59
anzomcik
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Re: Well how about the new Sat. opener ? 2019/12/09 14:04:05 (permalink)
rsquared
Anzo, I appreciate that you acknowledge that things are different in different areas, especially when you've got tight control of a sizable chunk of real estate.  
 
Do you think the improvement you've seen since AR is more due to the self imposed restrictions of your family members that hunt there, or because neighboring properties have to abide by AR's too?  Did you have those same self imposed restrictions before AR?  


We have a 110 acre farm, about 50 acres of that is field, 40 acres of that 50 field acres is leased to a local crop farmer. I tell people we hunt 110 acreas that hunts like 60 acres, not complaining, but you cant hunt in the middle of those big fields.
 
Like it said in the post above, we do not hold any rule to anything other than the law with antler size, if its legal its fair game. As far as we know the neighbors abide by the law as well, no rule on anything beyond that.
 
we never had any kind of AR prior to 2002, if its legal shoot it if you want. 
 
Some changes that will absolutely play in to better hunting on our personal level that cost very little. 
- better scent control. Washing cloth offten, spraying, change when i get to the property (not driving in hunting cloths), showering, wear a face mask to filter breath... nothing earth shattering but it all adds up. Yes they can still smell me, but it could buy a couple seconds that matter
- designated walking trails to stands, i use to weed whack and rake the trail, not i weed whack and leaf blow to reduce noise
-Hunting low impact stands early season, swing for the fences during rut
- hunt the wind
 
 
Old deer are different than young deer, we by no means have it down, but try to learn all the time. Those big old deer are there, we just do not know it all the time, if it were not for cameras i would not know most of them. 
#60
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