Tim has spoken, you know it's official. 

H3Fisher

Etheostoma

H3Fisher

You don't see State Game Rep's walking door to door trying to keep property open or thanking people who do allow fisherman. Only asking for more money.
 
They should create a fish counter and audit how many fish they truly do stock. You think they're not cutting into the numbers to save money so they can afford to pay the officers that are retired now? There was an article not too long ago about the changes they'll be making to cover those costs. Higher license costs and lower fish stockings if any for certain waterways. 
 
I can create a document saying I stock 6 millions fish and only throw in 500k. Who's going to count them as I go laughing to the bank with all the money I just made.
 
Notice the effort they're making from the recent "Epic, World class runs". How about they become pro-active and do something until the numbers come back up. Like lower limits, increase fish keeping size, change dates on when you can keep fish. 
 
Really this topics for a whole different post. 
 
I'll still catch fish and be happy, but only the true fisherman that care about the fishery we pay for will see the results of their efforts. No, adding stadium seating to a trickle of a water way does not count as an effort. They didn't even dredge that section out lol. 

Ahhh where to start. First off the Game Commission has nothing to do with fishing, it is the Fish and Boat Commission, seriously do you know any facts???? Two Separate state agencies.  As for the thanking of property owners they have already got their thanks in the form of money from the easement they probably signed with the fish commission.  That being said anytime I see a property owner I make sure I stop and say thank you for allowing us to use your land to access the stream.  I also pick up all the garbage the other idiots leave behind because I do not want more property taken away from us.  I would hope you guys are doing the same!!


As for the counting, I was fishing few years ago and was there when 3CU was stocking, I believe Elk Creek, and I asked how many they were putting in and they said they don't know but supposed to be x amount of fish(don't remember the number he said) So even your 3CU doesn't know.  From what I remember when I have visited the hatcheries years ago was that the fish were weighed and that is how they determined how many fish were in each stocking truck.  They told me that the fish are all about the same size and that made the calculation pretty accurate.  While I don't know how they actually do it but it would make sense simple math example 10 fish in a pound and 100 pounds would be 1,000fish.  While I have not been to a hatchery in few years I would be curious to go and see how they actually do this.  As for counting all the fish, that may work for small numbers but last I remember the fish commission stocked over 1 million steelhead smolts.  Would you want to count 1million dollars out individually(I would obviously for the money), but at a rate of 1 fish per second, (86,400 seconds per day) it would take you 12 days straight to count over 1million, kind of absurd to count that.
 
As for the article I did read the same thing saying that if they didn't get a license increase they would reduce hatcheries and amount of fish stocked, as well as other aspects of their agency.  It didn't say anything about the steelhead program particularly, but never know what can happen. 
 
As for the world class runs and being proactive, you must be a fisheries biologist to know exactly what to do to make the fishing "world class" again, Why don't you work for the Fish Commission then since you seem to know everything.
 
My problem is people like you just like to **** and **** about what others do and yet you don't seem to want to be part of the solution,  donating $3 to 3CU is your help, good for donating but maybe help them do something like stocking or whatever else they need done.   I have helped local cooperative nurseries before I moved to the area and it was all with help from the Fish commission.  I am going to try to take time off this winter and help the Fish commission collect their adults, friends of mine stumbled upon them collecting last year and got to help them, I always hear about them doing it but have yet to be able to see it, they said it was awesome and the guys working explained how they did the spawning also. 
 
Also as for the "stadium seating"  I do think that it looks very nice, but also was told that the fish commission did not do that, it was done to stabilze the bank.  But that is what I heard so who knows if that is true!!  People love to talk and make up things!!!  Also that area of Walnut is almost down to the shale anyways, so not sure how much more they could dredge??
 

CAPTAIN HOOK
Anything is possible with a pencil or pen. Add a zero take away a zero when counting . I've seen good local stockings and seen some that were way lower in numbers. Can't speak for Erie but I do trust the 3CU reports. (by the way, they are a co-op with the state raising trout smolts )  Shenango Lake was given 1800 stocked Walleye one year instead of about 200,000 and stocking was never made up again by our Fish Commission. Sounds fair right ? Just a little short ! But who's counting ?

 
Understand that the pen can make for all kinds of things and whatever outcome they would like.  Yes the co-op means working cooperatively with the state.  The nurseries get their fish from the state and then continue to grow them to stockable size.  While I don't know what happened with your walleye, that does suck for being short, obviously it will affect the lake, but did they say that, that would mean that they didn't use their pen to make it look like they stocked more!?!?!?  How many fish does 3CU raise each year??  What has the steelhead association done recently?  They don't even raise fish!!  I stopped being a member a while ago because it was they same old crap they have been saying for years but no real results. They just arguing and complaining about why the fishery isn't as good as the old days.  Atleast money from my 3CU button will go to help feed their fish!!!
 
Could you imagine if all the local groups worked together with the state how much better our fishery would be, instead of everyone fighting against each other!!!
 

post edited by Etheostoma - 2017/09/15 13:44:35

fishrmn
Hmm, what I see here is a lot of mumbo jumbo based on personal feelings, opinions, and success (or lack thereof), with absolutely no facts to back it up.

Here are some facts for you.

- There are lots of big fish around this year, results of back to back warm winters.
- There are lots of fish out there. Lots of skippers were around literally everywhere this past winter and spring. A direct sign of a strong year class.
- Great fishing occurred over the summer across the pond, again backing up the strong year class.
- On any given season there are still a stupid amount of fish available on the south shore of Lake Erie. Enough where anglers with a low skill set can go out and expect to catch fish.

Exactly!!! Last year we had some great rains that let the fish spread out and all the out of towners, and newbies didn't have their choice of a ton of fish sitting in one hole, with 50 people around them.  I noticed that last year they seemed bigger also, I hope that the trend continues and we end up with larger fish then last year.
 

Erie_flyfishing

pafisher
IMO the walleye are the problem,the huge population of Walleye is gobbling up the smolts every spring.Rope a Walleye and save the Steelhead.

Doesn't seem so far fetched to me

Absolutely agree, I know fishing early for walleye, I caught several with a few smolts about 8"-9" in their belly.

pafisher
IMO the walleye are the problem,the huge population of Walleye is gobbling up the smolts every spring.Rope a Walleye and save the Steelhead.

From a sporting and personal preference standpoint, I enjoy steelhead a heck of a lot more than walleye. Like, a LOT more than walleye (the actual fishing, not the crowd situation). But let's not forget that walleye are the native fish here and steelhead aren't. I love steelhead, but let's not get carried away and put them above wild, native species.
 
People come up with silly terms like "trash fish" for a bunch of our native fish, but fishing for hatchery trout in April is a statewide holiday. We need to move on from that mindset...
 
While return numbers have decreased from the good old days, like fishrmn said.........there's still a stupid number of fish available. An unnaturally high number compared to "real" steelhead fishing in their native range. Steelhead are a bonus introduced fish over here. Let's be happy with what we have.

troutguy

From a sporting and personal preference standpoint, I enjoy steelhead a heck of a lot more than walleye. Like, a LOT more than walleye (the actual fishing, not the crowd situation). But let's not forget that walleye are the native fish here and steelhead aren't. I love steelhead, but let's not get carried away and put them above wild, native species.
 
People come up with silly terms like "trash fish" for a bunch of our native fish, but fishing for hatchery trout in April is a statewide holiday. We need to move on from that mindset...
 
While return numbers have decreased from the good old days, like fishrmn said.........there's still a stupid number of fish available. An unnaturally high number compared to "real" steelhead fishing in their native range. Steelhead are a bonus introduced fish over here. Let's be happy with what we have.

Yes to everything about this 👍

Screamin Steel
Afeer reading some replies from others more knowledgeable than me, it seems like if they delayed smolt stockings by a few weeks, alot of the adult walleye would move to the west basin to spawn, might help our smolt survival.....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they stock smolts in March and April and they stay in the creek for a season before heading out to the lake next Spring. I could be wrong about how long they're residents since they're stocked fish, but I know the majority move out to the lake sometime between March and June every year.

The good thing about that is the migratory Walleye coming from the western basin are primarily still in Ohio waters at that point, and in my experience the Ohio Walleye don't move heavily into PA waters until at least mid June to early July, depending on water temps. However, PA waters do have a population of resident Walleye that remain here year round and are especially present nearshore during the Spring. I don't believe it's as many fish as the migratory population, but it's still plenty of predators to key in on an abundant, free food source exiting the tribs by the thousands. Again, that's just what I've put together and read about, I could be wrong about something here but I think that's about the sum of it.

The number of smolts they stock has nothing to do with it. They are stocking roughly the same amount every year. Pa stocks more than New York and Ohio combined. Smolt size is an issue but not numbers. You realize they stock a million smolts in ditches of pa. For some reason people in pa feel the need to keep and kill their limit. There is were the problem lies. Hundreds of fishermen keeping hundreds of fish . Doesn't take long for numbers to dwindle. Don't just spew fake statistics about stocking numbers. All information about numbers of fish can be found easily if you look.

Etheostoma

H3Fisher

Etheostoma

H3Fisher

Ahhh where to start. First off the Game Commission has nothing to do with fishing, it is the Fish and Boat Commission, seriously do you know any facts???? Two Separate state agencies.  As for the thanking of property owners they have already got their thanks in the form of money from the easement they probably signed with the fish commission.  That being said anytime I see a property owner I make sure I stop and say thank you for allowing us to use your land to access the stream.  I also pick up all the garbage the other idiots leave behind because I do not want more property taken away from us.  I would hope you guys are doing the same!!


As for the counting, I was fishing few years ago and was there when 3CU was stocking, I believe Elk Creek, and I asked how many they were putting in and they said they don't know but supposed to be x amount of fish(don't remember the number he said) So even your 3CU doesn't know.  From what I remember when I have visited the hatcheries years ago was that the fish were weighed and that is how they determined how many fish were in each stocking truck.  They told me that the fish are all about the same size and that made the calculation pretty accurate.  While I don't know how they actually do it but it would make sense simple math example 10 fish in a pound and 100 pounds would be 1,000fish.  While I have not been to a hatchery in few years I would be curious to go and see how they actually do this.  As for counting all the fish, that may work for small numbers but last I remember the fish commission stocked over 1 million steelhead smolts.  Would you want to count 1million dollars out individually(I would obviously for the money), but at a rate of 1 fish per second, (86,400 seconds per day) it would take you 12 days straight to count over 1million, kind of absurd to count that.
 
As for the article I did read the same thing saying that if they didn't get a license increase they would reduce hatcheries and amount of fish stocked, as well as other aspects of their agency.  It didn't say anything about the steelhead program particularly, but never know what can happen. 
 
As for the world class runs and being proactive, you must be a fisheries biologist to know exactly what to do to make the fishing "world class" again, Why don't you work for the Fish Commission then since you seem to know everything.
 
My problem is people like you just like to **** and **** about what others do and yet you don't seem to want to be part of the solution,  donating $3 to 3CU is your help, good for donating but maybe help them do something like stocking or whatever else they need done.   I have helped local cooperative nurseries before I moved to the area and it was all with help from the Fish commission.  I am going to try to take time off this winter and help the Fish commission collect their adults, friends of mine stumbled upon them collecting last year and got to help them, I always hear about them doing it but have yet to be able to see it, they said it was awesome and the guys working explained how they did the spawning also. 
 
Also as for the "stadium seating"  I do think that it looks very nice, but also was told that the fish commission did not do that, it was done to stabilze the bank.  But that is what I heard so who knows if that is true!!  People love to talk and make up things!!!  Also that area of Walnut is almost down to the shale anyways, so not sure how much more they could dredge??
 

Seem to have triggered you, sorry about that lol. I'm not really itching or complaining, I'm just stating how I see it. I've been fishing up north for 10 or so years now. It's on a downgraded slope. And I did assist them @ Trout Run last winter, so I'll count that as assisting, the nets get heavy!
 
I'll still catch and release fish this fall and enjoy every second of it.
 
As for working for the "state" Fish Commission... I really wish I could, and I wish I had a lot of pull. There would be a 1 fish limit, 24 inches minimum, and one of the creeks would be artificial/catch and release only. That is how you create a "WORLD CLASS" fishery. 
 
But hey, tight lines bud! It really is just my opinion, and I really do hope we have a great run this year. I would actually love for us to have a complete blow out so the fish can make a run before getting snagged and roped up in the puddles.
 

In other news, live from one of the well known tribs right now, caught seven yesterday, pink san juan worms and a purple squirmy wormy were the ticket. Take that for what its worth, or make it the new green egg sac joke of the 2017 season. Whatever, not my problem :)

Epic weekend. Lots of fish being snagged with short sleeves on . Next week you could be catching steelhead when it's 90 degrees!

FiveMilePete

Divemaster

Screamin Steel
Afeer reading some replies from others more knowledgeable than me, it seems like if they delayed smolt stockings by a few weeks, alot of the adult walleye would move to the west basin to spawn, might help our smolt survival.....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they stock smolts in March and April and they stay in the creek for a season before heading out to the lake next Spring. I could be wrong about how long they're residents since they're stocked fish, but I know the majority move out to the lake sometime between March and June every year.

The good thing about that is the migratory Walleye coming from the western basin are primarily still in Ohio waters at that point, and in my experience the Ohio Walleye don't move heavily into PA waters until at least mid June to early July, depending on water temps. However, PA waters do have a population of resident Walleye that remain here year round and are especially present nearshore during the Spring. I don't believe it's as many fish as the migratory population, but it's still plenty of predators to key in on an abundant, free food source exiting the tribs by the thousands. Again, that's just what I've put together and read about, I could be wrong about something here but I think that's about the sum of it.

I've never seen a smolt(hatchery)  in any of the creeks on the East side in the summer.    They'd have to develop legs in most of the creeks, they are so low.  I think they leave the creeks in early May, when the water warms up, just in time to feed the walleyes waiting at the mouths.  One wonders if the smolts are raised to feed the walleyes.  Look at the reports page.  How many smolts do you think  those walleyes binged on in late spring?   They don't practice C&R.
There is a huge # of walleye out there gorging on smolts and that is why the number of adult Steel has dropped recently.

FiveMilePete

Divemaster

Screamin Steel
Afeer reading some replies from others more knowledgeable than me, it seems like if they delayed smolt stockings by a few weeks, alot of the adult walleye would move to the west basin to spawn, might help our smolt survival.....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they stock smolts in March and April and they stay in the creek for a season before heading out to the lake next Spring. I could be wrong about how long they're residents since they're stocked fish, but I know the majority move out to the lake sometime between March and June every year.

The good thing about that is the migratory Walleye coming from the western basin are primarily still in Ohio waters at that point, and in my experience the Ohio Walleye don't move heavily into PA waters until at least mid June to early July, depending on water temps. However, PA waters do have a population of resident Walleye that remain here year round and are especially present nearshore during the Spring. I don't believe it's as many fish as the migratory population, but it's still plenty of predators to key in on an abundant, free food source exiting the tribs by the thousands. Again, that's just what I've put together and read about, I could be wrong about something here but I think that's about the sum of it.

I've never seen a smolt(hatchery)  in any of the creeks on the East side in the summer.    They'd have to develop legs in most of the creeks, they are so low.  I think they leave the creeks in early May, when the water warms up, just in time to feed the walleyes waiting at the mouths.  One wonders if the smolts are raised to feed the walleyes.  Look at the reports page.  How many smolts do you think  those walleyes binged on in late spring?   They don't practice C&R.

The run 2-3 years from now is going to be especially poor, I'd bet on that right now.

bingsbaits

Finally, someone talking some sense on these forums!  Send Guru's brother out with some scuba gear, and teach those walleye a lesson or two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apf3DNXj0mg