ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

what a silly statement ----

Keep in mind, archery season is an experience, archery is a way of life, it does not come around once a year, it's here all year, and it's not defined as shooting and it's certainly not killing.

Then what do you call it when you climb down and find a dead deer with your arrow in it ??????

Did you/your arrow not kill that animal ?????????????

What do you call it when you "launch" your arrow at a deer ??

Everyone I know calls it shooting a bow ?????

I will agree that it appears there are a lot of guys not killing deer this year in archery .. they are wounding and loosing them !!!!!!

 
Where do you see all the guys wounding deer???  Only seen a couple on here. Not bad for as many archers as there are..
 
Why call someones ideals silly?? He didn't try to impose them on you orany one else.. Mabee that's the way he feels about archery...
 
Your as bad as a politician. You only see and hear what the PGC feeds you and they are not always right...
 
You toe the company line and that is it..If you would disagree with them once in a great while it might add some credibility to some of your comments..As they are now you just spout rhetoric from the PGC bible you seem to have in your shirt pocket...
 
Why don't you address any of my questions about the mentor program? Do you not have a pamphlet to see what your opinion is.
 
 

I haven't read this except for last few posts.

I've heard of a lot of deer going wounded and not being found this year. 8 that come to mind quickly.

It's a shame, but what can you do?


And my opinion on crossbows, why not let em in?

Same distance as a bow, just easier to use.

loosing a deer in archery season happens alot more than ppl think on the farm next to the one i hunt every year they loose at least one and manytimes more than one and one of the 2 ppl that hunt the farm use a xbow and couple of years ago he wounded 3 before he got one and both of these guys are good shots

Bing, I think the wounding of deer has gone on way back. Just now, you can't post on a website and tell everyone on the planet who wants to looks your success or frustration, not just word of mouth now. And besides, why would you want to tell all your friends the deer you didn't recover, the internet is impersonal. Anyone who says crossbows will reduce the un-found, injured deer, and/or wounded deer lines are kidding themselves.
 
They are all arrows flung from a string and lose energy over a distance. Now I am not going to get into the discussion of distance or if it is really a bow because it is already cocked.
 
But I would think Indians had the same problem to a much smaller extent before us white men got here.

I suppose if I never shot a muzzleloader then I am not qualified to speak upon it then. I still have it concurrent in archery season, though. Not a big deal to me to type 5 pages worth of argument. Did that happen when they proposed it?
 
DPMS,Silverkype, and Dr Trout all have there agendas/beliefs and nothing will change their minds. We have to read through your posts to see your position.
 
PS I have read most of your posts on the other site about the current crossbow issue, you guys keep discussing it like lawyers or elected officials staunch in your positions which is admirable.
 
No offense, just what I have taken from both sites.

I think if you read some of the crossbows threads you'll find on more than one occasion I mentioned all the wounded and lost deer mentioned over there.... 
 
as for me in over 50 years of deer hunting I wounded and lost 1 deer and that was in archery . It was a good hit.  I just lost the trail in the thick slashing it ran into... and it was the last time I even thought about a shot of over 35 yards.
 
And I'm sorry but I'll never understand how a rifle hunter could lose a deer after hitting it with a bullet from a high power rifle ????
 
I know it happens... I hear guys talk about it and have found dead deer in the woods after the season is over
 
As for AR working  just because the one area I choose to sit at on opening day is not a place bucks travel does not mean they are not there... I see them with my camera, scouting trip, in the field at night etc etc... I also see them hanging on the meat poles at the neighboring camps and hear stories of the ones guys saw that day in the woods "back there"....
 
We hear talk of tradition.... well it's sort of my tradition to sit in that Hemlock Grove and harvest a deer on opening day year after year.. call it what you want but I'll not call it anti anything....
 
 
 

Those guys are trying to get help on what to do, because they are not sure 

 
anyone not sure of how to track a deer has no business in the woods in the first place especially in archery season.........

ORIGINAL: gobyking

DPMS,Silverkype, and Dr Trout all have there agendas/beliefs and nothing will change their minds. We have to read through your posts to see your position.

 
I used to be against crossbow inclusion in archery about 1-2 years ago.  But as have found out through researching the issue with an open mind I am finding out that there is not much to be afraid of.  So yes, minds can change.
 
I am still not full bore pro-inclusion but leaning that way as of now.

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

 but that doesn't mean a hunter who does not own a xbow, doesn't know the aspects and characteristics of one. 

 
Well then why don't you educate the president of the UBP on the aspects and characteristics of one?  He has made alot of claims that are easily debunked in the woods. 

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

I think if you read some of the crossbows threads you'll find on more than one occasion I mentioned all the wounded and lost deer mentioned over there.... 

as for me in over 50 years of deer hunting I wounded and lost 1 deer and that was in archery . It was a good hit.  I just lost the trail in the thick slashing it ran into... and it was the last time I even thought about a shot of over 35 yards.

And I'm sorry but I'll never understand how a rifle hunter could lose a deer after hitting it with a bullet from a high power rifle ????

I know it happens... I hear guys talk about it and have found dead deer in the woods after the season is over

As for AR working  just because the one area I choose to sit at on opening day is not a place bucks travel does not mean they are not there... I see them with my camera, scouting trip, in the field at night etc etc... I also see them hanging on the meat poles at the neighboring camps and hear stories of the ones guys saw that day in the woods "back there"....

We hear talk of tradition.... well it's sort of my tradition to sit in that Hemlock Grove and harvest a deer on opening day year after year.. call it what you want but I'll not call it anti anything....

Those guys are trying to get help on what to do, because they are not sure 

 
anyone not sure of how to track a deer has no business in the woods in the first place especially in archery season.........

Hey now, I had no Idea how to use a climber, or track let alone gut a deer.

How else are people supposed to learn?

Dr. Kraut i see you like to ignore posts you have no answer for. So I will call you Dr. Kraut because you leave a sour taste in my mouth...You said crossguns would bring in new hunters new hunters don't know how to track deer. So which is it???
Solution to all our problems is posters and leases. Micro manage our own deer herd. Then the Pgc can pass any silly law they want...It won't apply...

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: gobyking

I suppose if I never shot a muzzleloader then I am not qualified to speak upon it then.

You certainly can but I would not question the performance of one in a hunting situation if I did not have personal experience with one. 

Discussing the season or the impact of or sharing the woods with them is all good. 

 
I am not against the crossbow inclusion. I am against it being used for the majority of the archery season. I do understand it is currently in use in 2B where I hunt, but do not think it is feasible in the other areas with lesser population of deer numbers. I would hope the BOC and the PGC would start it out at a 1 week inclusion, not sure what they think is the right time. My opinion is they should try it statewide if they approve it in the first or second week of November during the rut when deer are running all over.
 
I would not be happy with a full inclusion.

esox..
you wrote..

Your post is a perfect example of why we as hunters are so divided.  You have stereotyped archery hunters in the worst way.  You give the impression that we are out "flinging" arrows at deer. 

I did not stero type anyone... and I repeat for the tenth time...

I was responding to all the people saying that crossbows are going to increase wounded and lost deer....  I was mearly pointing out that this year there seems to be already more than average wounded and lost deer being reported....

To say all , or even a majority of archers are "flinging arrows" is not what I said or have ever said...

The majority are good ethical hunters and take pride in not just there harvests but their methods and limits they place on themselves...

You yourself went on to agree about wounded and lost deer are a part of hunting... I just do not ever want to see it get to a point that that becomes a norm or an accepted practice... If you hit the deer you have a moral obligation to recover that deer... if the hunting community accepts wounded and lost deer as an okay thing.. more and more will not follow up on their shots and more will take "risky" shots...


And as for all this  -----  they are just asking for help.....

just what kind of help do they want....  I have not read anywhere  where one is asking folks to come help....

most, if not all, are sitting and typing on their computers instead of being in the woods looking.....

It gets dark you have not recovered your deer...

#1.. you go to a phone and call the PGC and tell them you are going into the woods after legal hunting hours to recover a deer.....

#2.. you follow their instructions on what to do next

#3.. you try to recruit some extra eyes to help look. you search as long as it takes to find the deer....

Your other choice is to go home and wait until the next morning to start your search..

No one was asking HOW to track a deer,

they were all saying they were waiting.... but to me ... they were all asking permission to be sitting at a computer typing insteads of searching .... IMHO

sorry if you young guys think that is bashing these guys, but I would never be home typing at 8 or 9 pm while a deer I shot was somewhere in the woods doing I do not know what... suffering, dead, crippled, being eaten by a coyote or bear ?????? 

Maybe at three or four in the morning I'd quit but not just after an hour or two...  sorry I guess it's all in the way you were taught and brought up.......

Lost and wounded deer give all deer hunters a bit of a black-eye with non-hunters..... and it is the #1 reason I do not shoot over 35 yards with a bow and not over 100 yards with a rifle...and NEVER AT A MOVING TARGET.... 

I have nothing against anyone who has practiced and is "at least good" at shooting longer ranges...  the folks that have never taken those difficult shots and still try ... IMHO are not true sportsmen... and are only worried about a kill not the overall image of hunters or hunting.....


as for bing.. 
I try to avoid your questions, most of the tinme I have no idea what your question is... PLUS you already have the answer you want to hear or believe... so why waste time replying. My opinion (or others) that differs with yours just gives you a reason to challenge or make an insult  rather than respond with facts.. just like the Dr Kraut remark...  replying is a waste of my time ... IMHO....

and you are free to disagree....

so I'll stop replying to you 100%

Is there an ignore button on this board ??????

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter 

People taking unethical shots is not a concern with the possible addition of crossguns to archery to me, that will continue to happen with any weapon.  My stand is that it takes away from archery hunter and it is NOT by any means reasonable to consider a crossgun archery equipment. 

 
An objective post Esox, much different than one a page ago.
 
Anyway, how does a crossbow take away from a archery hunter and why is it not archery equipment?  Is it primarily the drawing in the presence of game thing?

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

So, did you "got a kick" out of yourself discussing the matter, before you bought one?

Did you really hear me say I don't support a peer based on hunting tool they carry or did I say "because someone else is a hunter doesn't mean I'm going to support them."
 

Sorry man but when I was strongly against crossbow inclusion my arguement was concern for the resource, season length and changing hunting tactics.

Don't recall debating the performance of one in a hunting situation before I bought one.

 
You don't recall?
 
Let me refresh your memory about you discussing the aspects and characteristics of the xbow.
 
On June 2, on huntingpa you started a post called "The crossbows future here."  How about the three "survey results" threads???  4 threads about xbows in in five days.  And that's before you bought one.
 
On July 22, you made a post "I did a bad thing."  .. which clearly states you just ordered one.
 
Seems to be you get a kick out of yourself.  Quite an elitist statement to say that one who doesn't own an xbow shouldn't be talking about the aspects/characteristics.

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

You don't recall?

Let me refresh your memory about you discussing the aspects and characteristics of the xbow.

On June 2, on huntingpa you started a post called "The crossbows future here."  How about the three "survey results" threads???  4 threads about xbows in in five days.  And that's before you bought one.

On July 22, you made a post "I did a bad thing."  .. which clearly states you just ordered one.

Seems to be you get a kick out of yourself.  Quite an elitist statement to say that one who doesn't own an xbow shouldn't be talking about the aspects/characteristics.

You forgot the important part of those posts, my concerns for the resource, tradition and shorter seasons.  Again I asked for input from those concerned about the issue and I learned from them. 

I then bought a crossbow to explore the characteristics for myself so I could discuss the hunting and shooting aspects of one.

Nothing more than that which has been my position all along. 

Your grasping man.

Anyway, if you want to discuss the crossbow objectively and it's impact, lets do it.  The divisiveness your wish to continue does no one good.