ORIGINAL: thedrake

Does anyone really believe adding crossguns to archery season will attract new folks to hunting? Think of it this way, how many people are out there saying: "I would like to start hunting, but only if crossbows are allowed"? The answer to that question is nobody. Nobody is out there with their fingers crossed hoping crossbows are allowed, so they can start hunting. It is absurd to think this would even bring ONE new person to our sport.

 
I beg to differ.  I now several peers of mine that cannot wait to take thier kid archery hunting.  They will be able to do it under the mentored youth program during archery but these kids do not have the strength to pull and steady a 35# vertical.
 
One is a 8 y/o boy and the other a 10 y/o girl.  With X-bows legalized for all these kids can enjoy the fall woods and maybe harvest a deer.

ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

Just what I need around here. A whole herd of 8-10 year old amish kids running around the woods with crossguns..That sure will advance the sport...Works out good for the dad..Free deer. No tag, No liscence, no hunter safety course...

 
Ouch!!!  That might hurt.

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: thedrake

Does anyone really believe adding crossguns to archery season will attract new folks to hunting? Think of it this way, how many people are out there saying: "I would like to start hunting, but only if crossbows are allowed"? The answer to that question is nobody. Nobody is out there with their fingers crossed hoping crossbows are allowed, so they can start hunting. It is absurd to think this would even bring ONE new person to our sport.

 
They will be able to do it under the mentored youth program during archery but these kids do not have the strength to pull and steady a 35# vertical.

One is a 8 y/o boy and the other a 10 y/o girl.  With X-bows legalized for all these kids can enjoy the fall woods and maybe harvest a deer.

 
 
 
 Tell me how you really know if small children can't pull a bow and arrow, or if it's just speculation. 

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

Tell me how you really know if small children can't pull a bow and arrow, or if it's just speculation. 

 
I can only relay what the parents of these children told me and that is what they told me.
 
 

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

Tell me how you really know if small children can't pull a bow and arrow, or if it's just speculation. 

I can only relay what the parents of these children told me and that is what they told me.

 
Speculation.  Until you teach children younger than 8-10 to pull back a bow,  you wouldn't know.  And I highly doubt parents actually bought or had their kids got out and actually try to shoot a bow and arrow.  If they can hold one of those "heavy" xbows, they can pull back a compound bow.
 
This "increased opportunity for children" is the major driver of pro xbow folks.  The fact is, it's a sugar-coated attempt to get xbows into archery season, for the folks who want a shortcut in archery season.  The opporunity is there for person XYZ to pick up a bow and participate now, and always has been, but the desire apparantly is not.  The sad thing is, it'll work.
 
Some pics of children younger than 8-10 shooting a compound bow.
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

If this proposal passes in January, we will all be archers just like the archers in Ohio. 
 
I hope that if that happens the infighting stops and all archers organize to secure the future of our sport.
 
The UBP has been rather negative in it's language as have many of it supporters.  They had the nerve to get up and walk out of the meeting once the vote was cast.  I know that many commissioners took notice of it.  That is a shame since this BOC has done alot in the past to push UBP initiatives.
 
There has been some harsh language from the pro side as well but from a few and not the majority.  It is time to move forward.

ORIGINAL: dpms

That is a shame since this BOC has done alot in the past to push UBP initiatives.

 
 
Really, have they?   How do you know that?  20 years to get a 3 day bear archery season.  Boy, they sure pushed that one.    It was the UBP that did the pushing, not the commission.  The UBP earned it, and the two weeks of the rut for bowhunters.  Now the xbows guys backdoor the PGC to push their way into archery.
 
It's also a shame that the bowhunter education was taken under by a "few" good men, willing to dedicate endless hours, to ensure proper training for bowhunters.   A mandatory class for bowhunting was in the future.  I get the sense the PGC is going to need to find a "few" more good men to continue teaching these classes.  Good luck with that..  The PGC could not have a bowhunter education class without those folks.
 
Maybe some of the xbow pushers could volunteer to take over.  How about you ?

ORIGINAL: jlh42581

My 5yr old is getting her first compound for christmas this year... her request... didnt hear her ask for a crossbow.

 
Good luck, glad to see she has expressed interest.

ORIGINAL: dpms

Bad choice of words.  The BOC has approved many of the UBP initiatives and they both are to be commended for that.  Those initiatives have benefited many.

Now is not the time for the UBP to turn it's back on the BOC. 

As I have said before, devided we fall.

I agree, and think someone walking out in the middle of a meeting because they didn't get what they wanted shows an extreme lack of class. 


As far as I'm concerned, a shortening of archery season because of xbows, defines the "divided we fall."

Archers shouldn't have to do without because xbowers choose NOT to participate in archery with a bow and arrow.

Then fine, make it legal for youth license holders and mentored youths only (as well as the physically disabled that are already allowed to get a permit with Drs excuse) and be done with it. 
 
Now, we will have the lazy arse archery wannabe rifle hunters getting into the act.  Get ready for deer drives during archery season in your county!  It happens all the time here in Allegheny.  Still have 3 months to change the Boards mind.  Start writing letters folks.

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: SilverKype


So first you said youth couldn't pull a bow, now you realize they can.  You too, like the rest of the xbow folks used this as a sugar-coated excuse to get xbows in archery.  It's like those TV commercials you see using young children to promote their product.  Cuteness works I guess. 

Because it takes significant practice to develop muscles and get good with a bow and arrow, a child shouldn't have to?  That's what your third sentence above is telling me.

Time is rarely the issue dpms, it's desire.

Look I am not going to get into a pis**** match.  If you want to take things out of context go for it. 

I have said that it is difficult at best for kids under 12 to pull and take ethical shots with a 35# compound.  I have also said that many junior (12 and older)hunters can pull and shoot a #35 compound compound and that it takes practice.

If you want to exclude a kid that just wants to try hunting, that is a shame.  Regardless of the time or desire that they have.  That one kid may be hooked for life and you choose to exclude them because of what he/she chooses to use.  Shameful..

 
I didn't take anything out of context.  Just trying to get a feel for what you're all about dpms.   You say one thing, then another.  Didn't make any sense.  You proved my point.  Children is an excuse for lack of dedication and desire.   Nothing wrong with that, but at least show some class, stand up and admit you want an xbow in your hand, and the real reasons.  No, I'm not refering to you, but xbow pushers in general.  No I don't want to exclude anyone from hunting, but that doesn't mean opportunity should be taken away, by some sugar-coated excuse.. and that's exactly what it is.   Nice try to turn it around again, and use Kids as the driver.  You fit in quite well with the sugarcoated crowd. 
 
The shameful thing about it, is it's going to work and the PGC is on its last breath of survivial and attempting to "save" hunting.  IMO, because the legislators introduced the house bill, the commission has no choice, if they want a license increase .. they have to pass what the legistrators want .. xbows in archery season.

Silver,
 
Since you don't understand my position let me try to clarify.  I am concerned for the resource but have not seen anything anywhere to prove to me that the resource will be affected.  If I did my views would be different.  Saying the season may be shortened is specualtion, nothing more.
 
We have 60,000 less archers than we did in 1998 and we now have AR's.
 
Crossbows have affected the way I hunt in the SRA's.  Drives are a prime example.  It has affected the nature of archery hunting but not the resource.
 
I will continue to hunt with both my compound and my crossbow, whichever suits my fancy at the moment.  I am even kicking around the idea of a recurve for next year.
 
I do not need to show some "class" because I have been clear on my position.  Insults will get you nowhere and those insults have not helped your cause up to this point. Show me the facts on your position and we can discuss the issue.  The BOC was insulted friday.
 
My position is resource first, recruitment second and retention third.  I welcome anyone to our sport that wants to try hunting if they have a tool that will allow them to ethically harvest game.  A star could be born and I choose to let them try.
 
I also know some dads that would take up archery with a crossbow. I would welcome them too.
 
I believe my position is a clear as it can be.  Resource first, recruitment second and retention third.

ORIGINAL: SilverKype
  Nothing wrong with that, but at least show some class, stand up and admit you want an xbow in your hand, and the real reasons.

 
Let me clarify the "real reasons".  I enjoy hunting with many different weapons pistols, shotguns, bows, muzzleloaders and in many different calibers.  Even though crossbows have been legal in the SRA for awhile now, I just bought one.
 
Why, another tool in the tool shed to pick from, nothing more than that.
 

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

There's the problem.  Let's implement xbows, do a 4-5 year study, then shorten an existing season if need be.  They didn't prove anything about the resource at the meeting, and are already talking about shortening seasons. 

Boop is talking shortened seasons and that is funny how you now like what he has to say. 

Boop is against just about everything the PGC wants to do in deer management.

Cal Dubrock stated " it is my feeling that the impact of crossbows is more of a social one than a biolological one".

 
I, and everyone should like that statement he made.  If the deer numbers are number #1.
 
Cal made that statement, without knowing being able to address the impact.  Speculation, with little value.

All I know is I wish I could take my 70# compound bow draw it and have it hold indefinitely,rest it on the rifle rest ,and watch in the scope until an ethical shot presents itself..Not archery to me...
Your going to make ethical hunters out of young people by letting them use a crossguns..How do you know they will all make ethical shots with the crossguns ??
 
Mabee if a child isn't capable of using the present weapons available to make an ethical shot they should wait another year...I cringe at the thought of some of these 8-10 year old kids in the woods with rifles. Some of the parents don't know enough to be a good mentor. Don't get me wrong not all kids, Some are raised in the hunting tradition and are the ones that can pull the bow  and probably have parents who are hunters..
 
Why do they not have to buy a license in the mentor program?? $20 to much to spend to try and get a kid hunting??...If they want to let them hunt why do they not have to purchase a doe tag ??