X-Bows given preliminary approval 
Dr. Trout
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/28 21:22:45
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How many bucks have you taken since hr/ar. Actually I have only harvested 5 bucks since moving here permantly in 1987... 1 behind the house & one on Clear Creek State Forest the other 3 were on private property before I stopped hunting private land.. I have not even seen a buck to shoot since HR/AR.. my last buck was in 2001 at clear creek.. my best buck ever.. but that ( harvesting a buck) has not been my goal for the first day of rifle season either... The area behind my house (SGL #54) where I set up has never been known to harbor bucks.... and since I do not eat antlers, I choose to hunt there on opening day.. get my venison and be home by noon... Tues I go to clear creek and do the same... then I'm done.. What do I tell the 90% .. I tell them the same thing I tell myself... to harvest a deer on SGL or state forest with all the pressure and fewer deer now is 10 times harder than hunting on private property with limited access..... I'm as proud of my does on publuic land open to everyone... as you are with your 70 bucks on private property.... I have no desire to put in the time or energy to worry about or to set my goal for a buck to feel I had a successful season... hey if a buck happens by (like it has a FEW times) I'll drop it too, but I'm not setting that as my goal...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/10/28 21:40:29
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S-10
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/28 21:42:36
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Doc wrote= as you are with your 70 bucks on private property
Don't know where you got that idea. NONE of my bucks came off posted property. In fact I am hunting ANF tomorrow.
The thing is you are saying that because you can kill a doe everything is all right with the deer population and the PGC is right on target. MOST hunters are looking for a buck and settle for a doe as a last result or in addition to the buck. The PGC claims 50% of the bucks are 2-1/2 years old yet I have already had 11 different bucks in and none are 2-1/2 years old and none over a 5 point. Before you say they are there but smarter, I went to Ohio on a 3 day scouting trip and had 2 good bucks close while hunting on the ground on public land.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/28 22:03:27
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Boy I HATE it when some one states what I said and it is not true... The thing is you are saying that because you can kill a doe everything is all right with the deer population and the PGC is right on target. Now that is an out and out LIE !!!!! I have never said anything like that... just because I am totally satisfied shooting a doe, and could care less about shooting a buck... has nothing to do with my thoughts on the deer program or the PGC... what they are doing was needed and it is working... If I did not know I could harvest a deer here or where I hunt at clear creek I'd move to one of the places that I have been sending others to harvest a deer this year..... it's that simple ... the deer are here and I am sure if I took the time to scout for bucks I could find them too... Want to put up a hundred bucks I can't shoot a buck this year ?? maybe then I'd make it my goal to harvest a buck for 2008....  
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/28 22:50:47
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
I have not even seen a buck to shoot since HR/AR..
just because I am totally satisfied shooting a doe, and could care less about shooting a buck...
has nothing to do with my thoughts on the deer program or the PGC... what they are doing was needed and it is working...
How can you say the current program is working when you claim to have not seen a shooter buck since the implementation of AR/HR? You said you don't put in the effort to scout bucks, how do you know they are there? While I respect your postion and I am glad you are happy with your current hunting situation, that does not mean that AR/HR is working well. Just because you are seeing plenty of does and are content with that certainly doesn't mean the program is working in your area. Your opinion is very biased based on the fact that you don't seem to care about what bucks are around(in numbers or size).
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thedrake
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/28 23:53:53
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ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
I have not even seen a buck to shoot since HR/AR..
just because I am totally satisfied shooting a doe, and could care less about shooting a buck...
has nothing to do with my thoughts on the deer program or the PGC... what they are doing was needed and it is working...
How can you say the current program is working when you claim to have not seen a shooter buck since the implementation of AR/HR? You said you don't put in the effort to scout bucks, how do you know they are there?
While I respect your postion and I am glad you are happy with your current hunting situation, that does not mean that AR/HR is working well.
Just because you are seeing plenty of does and are content with that certainly doesn't mean the program is working in your area. Your opinion is very biased based on the fact that you don't seem to care about what bucks are around(in numbers or size).
I was wondering the same. How can someone believe the program is working if they haven't seen a buck since HR/AR? I can say without a doubt that the current program has changed my area for the better, but I would feel differently had I not seen a buck to shoot in years. On another note.... I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how crossguns will bring new people to hunting.
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bingsbaits
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/29 06:23:57
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It is to bad Dr. that it has become so difficult to get a legal buck that you have just given up on it..You can come up and hunt with us there are a bunch of scrubbers up here we pass on. I would be willing to help you out and put you on a stand if you would like to shoot a buck again...
As for me not seeing deer the first week. The trails I set up on are mature buck trails not doe trails not travel corridors.Half my stands you can't see farther than 40 yards.I get in the thick stuff. I am hunting older mature buck..You wont see many deer at all. I'm looking for 1 deer in particular..Wish I could do a little better at the killing though..Haven't spanked a buck with the bow in 5 years. Pass up many small ones..
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jlh42581
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/29 07:58:27
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I take 90% of my vacation for the year in archery season. I hunt many forms of terrain, ever changing food sources, land guys wouldnt ever think of hunting. Pretty much Ive pulled all the rabbits out of the hat. The numbers are WAY down here, plain and simple. I shouldnt have to drive 3 hrs to hunt, if im driving that far, im leaving the state. I believe you saw my post recently that I am in the process of possibly venturing to another state for the sole purpose of hunting whitetails. Not just venture, an all out move. The state can kiss my $1000 of yearly hunting revenue goodbye. $50 on licensing $600 year so my dogs can have a REASONABLE SAFE place to enjoy hunting birds $200 or more on gear $500-$1000 on gas I took 8 days of vacation for archery, at my $25.96hr salary for 8 hrs a day you got another $1661.41 assuming i kill ONE deer, minus the bird membership and some of the gas and the $50 for the license i dont need at the bird preserve were lookn at $2211.44 or 180lbs(VERY conservative) or 12.28lb. I could eat delmonicos every day, but its not about that for me and this is down right not a great experience. I love the outdoors and will hunt till i cant do it anymore. Others are not that willing. My dad quit, my only uncle quit and my grandfather was done last year. My daughter isnt old enough to hunt so... im the only one left.
post edited by jlh42581 - 2008/10/29 08:03:59
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dpms
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/29 08:00:16
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ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter
I attribute most of the ones I see using crossguns to be sellouts; people who used to hunt with bows.
Seems like anything the PGC can do to make it easier and less rewarding to harvest a deer is on the agenda. Ouch!!! Sellouts? Pretty strong language to be characterizing those you do not know. The reward is different for everybody. It has been pretty rewarding to me to put a tag on a rifle kill even though you might consider it easy and not rewarding. Alot of deviseness in your language Esox.
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dpms
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/29 08:07:40
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ORIGINAL: thedrake
On another note.... I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how crossguns will bring new people to hunting.
I believe I gave some examples in these 4 pages. But let me give a few again. - Mentored youths unable to shoot a compound accurately - Busy moms that want to try archery in fair weather - Busy dads that want to do the same - Rifle hunters that may want to give it a spin and hunt the rut - Older hunters that may like hunting the fairer weather better - Older hunters that just struggle with a vertical bow Do you need more
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tippecanoe
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/29 08:19:33
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Not calling anyone out, but this is my opinion on the matter of deer in PA.
I like the current laws, AR work fantastically in my opinion, small bucks=young bucks, young bucks may have decent genes, and most bucks are killed in rifle, which is post rut correct? the only thing about 4 on a side is that there can be big 6-pts that will never have brow tines, and that is bad for the gene pool. ie, a management buck, ever watch these tv shows at these ranches? they know more about deer herds and genes then any of us, and they dont shoot spikes! they understad its just a baby! crossbows should be for the CRIPPLED, and if you arent seeing any deer, and you see a doe, then dont shoot it, let it breed, you dont HAVE to fill every doe tag, I love deer meat as much as anyone, ya know? POLICE YOURSELVES if you dont see many deer. EHD decimated the deer herd around my folks home last year. We arent shooting any does or bucks for at least another year, and neither are many of the neighbors, which makes sense, correct?
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Dr. Trout
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/29 10:50:34
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Wow you guys sure do not read what I write..... maybe I should just stop wasting time posting here.... I said I have not seen a buck to SHOOT AT ... where I set-up is a #1 hiding place for does.. it is rare if ever a buck goes in there except during the rut chasing does out ..... The hemlock grove is 400 yards from the house making for an easy drag.... I see bucks almost every day ... nice ones too... in fact at least one or two are usually harvested every year in the 2-3 sq mile area " behind my place" (SGL #54) .... IN the past three years some TROPHIES have been harvested "back there".... and except for 2 scrubs (the old norm)the bucks hanging around here on the first night are bigger and better than we had for years of hunting around here ( thanks to AR) But those bucks come off the posted and crop field at 4-5 AM and head deep into the area.... young guys (and myself in days gone by) that head in there will see and get a chance at a buck... it's always been that way... now the 2.5 year old bucks are not leaving unless pushed... and the number of hunters "back there" is half what it used to be.. but lucky for me enough to chase a couple does and I know where they head to...TO ME !!! In my hemlock grove I have to hope a buck can be chased from their core area and run about a 1/2 mile and decided to head towards open fields and stop in the hemlocks for me to see him.. I appreciate the invite.. but as I said.. I do not eat antlers so I am perfectly happy doing what I do.. that does not mean I think the deer plan is not working and that I have "copped out".... I see proof the plan IS WORKING everyday... just my choice to hunt the way I want to... rest assured I'll be after bucks next fall (archery) with my crossbow though !!!!!
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/10/29 10:54:15
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thedrake
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/29 11:10:47
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ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: thedrake
On another note.... I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how crossguns will bring new people to hunting.
I believe I gave some examples in these 4 pages. But let me give a few again.
- Mentored youths unable to shoot a compound accurately
- Busy moms that want to try archery in fair weather
- Busy dads that want to do the same
- Rifle hunters that may want to give it a spin and hunt the rut
- Older hunters that may like hunting the fairer weather better
- Older hunters that just struggle with a vertical bow
Do you need more
I don't need any more reasons why this will bring existing hunters into archery season, since that is not the question I asked. I asked how it will bring NEW people to HUNTING. If someone who starts using a crossgun in archery, has already hunted with a rifle or for small game etc., then it wasn't the crossgun that started them into hunting, right? You guys believe this will start new people into hunting, so explain to me how it will. Like I said before, it is rediculous to think this will bring one more licence sale. There is not one person out there saying "I would like to start hunting, but since I can't use a crossbow in archery season, i'm not buying a license".
post edited by thedrake - 2008/10/29 11:14:14
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dpms
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/29 11:42:58
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I have been a fan of recruitment into archery. Recruitment means archery license sales and more revenue. That will probably come from some rifle hunters and maybe some from the first day crowd that can now hunt closer to home without as much practice. Again more revenue due to archery sales. These are not new hunters but new archers.
Now we have the new hunters question. It is my belief that the sooner we can get kids into hunting they more likely they are to stay there. By 12 it may be too late IMO. It is my belief that with a crossbow and fair weather, we can get some new hunters involved that may stay before other factors pull them away.
It is also my belief that some moms and girlfriends out there may be enticed to join our ranks because the weapon does not recoil, does not go bang, is easier to become profecient and can use it when the weather is nice.
I see new hunters and more revenue.
JMHO.
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SilverKype
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/29 12:25:52
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ORIGINAL: S-10
ORIGINAL: SilverKype
To put an already decimated central PA deer herd at risk is irresponsible.
/quote]
Based on this and your deciding to buy into a lease to get some decent hunting makes me believe your changing your attitude of the PGC. Used to be it was hard for me to tell you and Doc apart. BTY I agree that x-bows is a bad idea and won't increase hunters for more than a couple years.
I must not be explaining myself very well.
I do have decent hunting now. And I have for years. I don't have a problem with a hunting a decimated herd. I do have an issue with hunting a decimated herd when they are getting pushed around every week during archery. It's already bad enough with all the other seasons in archery, it makes it difficult but not yet impossible. I don't have a problem with the archer that knows how to use the wind, scout, etcc... using an xbow. They are just another archer in the woods. Rifle hunter mentality in archery may make it impossible for me. That's where I'll draw the line. It'll be time to move on from public land hunting. PGC's fault? Well, I can't blame them for trying to surivive and the legislators got their backs to the wall with a license increase, so I don't know. Whatever, I'll just move on if harvest increases a lot, and the deer are 100% noctural.
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duncsdad
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/29 18:45:51
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ORIGINAL: SilverKype
ORIGINAL: S-10
ORIGINAL: SilverKype
To put an already decimated central PA deer herd at risk is irresponsible.
/quote]
Based on this and your deciding to buy into a lease to get some decent hunting makes me believe your changing your attitude of the PGC. Used to be it was hard for me to tell you and Doc apart. BTY I agree that x-bows is a bad idea and won't increase hunters for more than a couple years.
I must not be explaining myself very well.
I do have decent hunting now. And I have for years. I don't have a problem with a hunting a decimated herd. I do have an issue with hunting a decimated herd when they are getting pushed around every week during archery. It's already bad enough with all the other seasons in archery, it makes it difficult but not yet impossible. I don't have a problem with the archer that knows how to use the wind, scout, etcc... using an xbow. They are just another archer in the woods. Rifle hunter mentality in archery may make it impossible for me. That's where I'll draw the line. It'll be time to move on from public land hunting. PGC's fault? Well, I can't blame them for trying to surivive and the legislators got their backs to the wall with a license increase, so I don't know. Whatever, I'll just move on if harvest increases a lot, and the deer are 100% noctural.
Silver,
I don't know why I am following this thread, since I am neither a bow hunter or crossbow hunter. Perhaps because it has been a very civil discussion on a passionate subject.
But I do have two questions.
1. Being a rifle hunter (I did the muzzleloader and handgun thing in the past), what exactly is "rifle hunter mentality?" I just want to know what I am being stereotyped as.
2. Why do you find the 4 - 5 year timeframe for the crossbow "experiment" completely unacceptable, as in way, way too long, yet taking 5 years (and, now, beyond) for the AR/HR "experiment" was just right or not long enough?
Jon, I am really not trying to be a smart***, just trying to see your angle.
Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion
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bingsbaits
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/29 19:35:46
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I wish you would quit calling them archery equipment..The will be used in archery season but aren't archery equipment...
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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bingsbaits
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 07:29:06
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Dpms in all honesty do you think that arrowguns will really recruit any new sportsman??
Do you really feel their are people out there wanting to hunt but can't pull a bow or shoulder a rifle and need the arrowguns so they can give hunting a try ??
I just don't see the people there..
Mabee if we want to recruit younger hunters then lets bring them into the fold sooner..Why have a Mentor Program?? It brings in no revenue and is ripe for abuse..Mabee have a Mentor Lisc. and only the kid on the lisc. could use an arrowgun..
Why not change the hunting age..If you can pass the Hunter Safety Course you can buy a license and become part of the fold..I think this could recruit more kids than arrowguns..
Would much rather see the youngest hunters get some formal training and education on safety and hunting ethics before they hit the woods..
The weather the last 2 weeks of archery can be nasty.. Mabee give the arrowguns a 2 week season at the start of archery...Nice weather.
My biggest problem with arrowguns is almost a local thing. There is a certain segment of the population here whose education stops at the 8th grade.(state minimum)
Have you ever tried to sit down with one of these fellas and try to explain Physics principles (gravity,trajectory), kinetic energy (down range hitting power), This glazed look comes over their face and you might as well talk to the wall...
Because it shoots just like a gun they will use it as such...Trying to shoot 50 yrds and sticking the hell out of the deer.
Look at the Ohio numbers more arrowguns than bows.
I think it will lead to more posted land. It will be here we are going to post for the first time in 46 years and are looking to lease up the neighbors and take about 300 acres out of the arrowgun controversy..
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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jlh42581
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 07:40:13
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dpms
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 07:50:34
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ORIGINAL: bingsbaits
Dpms in all honesty do you think that arrowguns will really recruit any new sportsman??
Look at the Ohio numbers more arrowguns than bows.
Yes, I do. While I don't expect huge numbers I expect some, and some is good especially if it is our youth. Ohio has a huge percentage of archers in thier ranks. I believe that 60% of thier archers use crossbows which still leaves 40% that have decided that verts are better for them. And the success rates between the two camps are identical. This after a long period of time with inclusion.
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dpms
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 07:58:07
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For the purpose of full disclosure let me state my postiton on crossbows since there are only a few here that appear to support them.
I have one year of experience with one even though I hunt the SRA. I decided to buy one just to add another tool in the shed and I still hunt with my compound.
My experience has shown there are advantages and disadvantages to using one.
I still do have concerns for the resource and my priorities are resource, recruitment and retention in that order. The PGC staff report was as vague as it could be which was disappointing.
I am still not 100% for inclusion but leaning that direction as I would support anything that gets people involved in hunting that does nit harm the resource.
I have yet to see any data from elsewhere or from Pa. that shows concern for the resource and that is why I lean the way I do.
My posts on the subject will be objective and based on facts and personal experience using one and hunting with one where the are already included in archery.
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dpms
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 07:59:38
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ORIGINAL: duncsdad
But I do have two questions.
1. Being a rifle hunter (I did the muzzleloader and handgun thing in the past), what exactly is "rifle hunter mentality?" I just want to know what I am being stereotyped as.
2. Why do you find the 4 - 5 year timeframe for the crossbow "experiment" completely unacceptable, as in way, way too long, yet taking 5 years (and, now, beyond) for the AR/HR "experiment" was just right or not long enough?
Good questions.
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SilverKype
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 08:05:19
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ORIGINAL: duncsdad
ORIGINAL: SilverKype
ORIGINAL: S-10
ORIGINAL: SilverKype
To put an already decimated central PA deer herd at risk is irresponsible.
/quote]
Based on this and your deciding to buy into a lease to get some decent hunting makes me believe your changing your attitude of the PGC. Used to be it was hard for me to tell you and Doc apart. BTY I agree that x-bows is a bad idea and won't increase hunters for more than a couple years.
I must not be explaining myself very well.
I do have decent hunting now. And I have for years. I don't have a problem with a hunting a decimated herd. I do have an issue with hunting a decimated herd when they are getting pushed around every week during archery. It's already bad enough with all the other seasons in archery, it makes it difficult but not yet impossible. I don't have a problem with the archer that knows how to use the wind, scout, etcc... using an xbow. They are just another archer in the woods. Rifle hunter mentality in archery may make it impossible for me. That's where I'll draw the line. It'll be time to move on from public land hunting. PGC's fault? Well, I can't blame them for trying to surivive and the legislators got their backs to the wall with a license increase, so I don't know. Whatever, I'll just move on if harvest increases a lot, and the deer are 100% noctural.
Silver,
I don't know why I am following this thread, since I am neither a bow hunter or crossbow hunter. Perhaps because it has been a very civil discussion on a passionate subject.
But I do have two questions.
1. Being a rifle hunter (I did the muzzleloader and handgun thing in the past), what exactly is "rifle hunter mentality?" I just want to know what I am being stereotyped as.
2. Why do you find the 4 - 5 year timeframe for the crossbow "experiment" completely unacceptable, as in way, way too long, yet taking 5 years (and, now, beyond) for the AR/HR "experiment" was just right or not long enough?
Jon, I am really not trying to be a smart***, just trying to see your angle.
A lot of people think crossbows are rifles Shawn. They do have a stock, internal ballistics, scope.. etc.. but they lack the abillity to shoot a projectile greater than 400 fps (some do shoot 600 or so but that's a new thing). Many Xbow hunters hunt like rifle hunters .. doing drives and still hunting occur much of the time with crossbow hunters, just like rifle season. I've seen them in groups of 8-10 people driving deer.
If I see the "rifle mentality" greatly affecting the deer I hunt, which I already do to some extent with all the other seasons in archery, I'll move on. Like I said before, number of deer doesn't bother me, the external factors at which affect the deer, does. That said, I'm not saying driving deer or still hunting is wrong in archery season, but I'll move on if I see a lot of it.
Herd reduction is not an experiment. It was a necessity for ecosystem balance. At which level of reduction could be argued, but it needed done. NOT adding xbows isn't going to affect deer health (except perhaps in the areas of overpopulation, which they are already legal), our interactions with deer, and ecosystem balance.
An experiment would be the 'another tool in the toolbox' one week doe season in the north central part of the state.
My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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bingsbaits
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 08:23:28
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If it all comes together. We'll have to talk...
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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SilverKype
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 08:35:20
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Shawn Keep in mind, archery season is an experience, archery is a way of life, it does not come around once a year, it's here all year, and it's not defined as shooting and it's certainly not killing. I'm not a fan of leasing property to restrict others from using it, but if I can't enjoy the season by watching deer in daylight hours, it's time to be a selfish person and get what I want, and I'll use the almight dollar to get there, if I have to. The feeling of accomplishment I get from taking a deer from land that ALL hunters have access to is expotentially more meaningful, than deer from private property. But if that's what it comes to, I'll just adapt to it. Simple solution.
post edited by SilverKype - 2008/10/30 08:38:46
My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 08:50:56
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what a silly statement ---- Keep in mind, archery season is an experience, archery is a way of life, it does not come around once a year, it's here all year, and it's not defined as shooting and it's certainly not killing. Then what do you call it when you climb down and find a dead deer with your arrow in it ?????? Did you/your arrow not kill that animal ????????????? What do you call it when you "launch" your arrow at a deer ?? Everyone I know calls it shooting a bow ????? I will agree that it appears there are a lot of guys not killing deer this year in archery .. they are wounding and loosing them !!!!!!
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/10/30 08:52:18
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dpms
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 09:11:41
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ORIGINAL: SilverKype
Keep in mind, archery season is an experience, archery is a way of life, it does not come around once a year, it's here all year, and it's not defined as shooting and it's certainly not killing. All this talk of elitism and that statement pretty much is the definition of it. And the muzzleloader guys and the rifle guys and the trappers some how don't get out of thier pursuits as much as you do as an archer?
My rifle is a black rifle
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SilverKype
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 09:18:34
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
what a silly statement ----
Keep in mind, archery season is an experience, archery is a way of life, it does not come around once a year, it's here all year, and it's not defined as shooting and it's certainly not killing.
Then what do you call it when you climb down and find a dead deer with your arrow in it ??????
Did you/your arrow not kill that animal ?????????????
What do you call it when you "launch" your arrow at a deer ??
Everyone I know calls it shooting a bow ?????
I will agree that it appears there are a lot of guys not killing deer this year in archery .. they are wounding and loosing them !!!!!!
As I said before, hunting is not shooting and shooting is not hunting.
My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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SilverKype
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 09:23:14
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ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: SilverKype
Keep in mind, archery season is an experience, archery is a way of life, it does not come around once a year, it's here all year, and it's not defined as shooting and it's certainly not killing.
All this talk of elitism and that statement pretty much is the definition of it. And the muzzleloader guys and the rifle guys and the trappers some how don't get out of thier pursuits as much as you do as an archer?
Yes they may, and nowhere did I question that. I stated I would be changing where I hunt. What IS your point D?
My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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SilverKype
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 09:30:40
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
I will agree that it appears there are a lot of guys not killing deer this year in archery .. they are wounding and loosing them !!!!!!
Let me guess.. you've never wounded a deer. You sound like an anti-hunter.
My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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SilverKype
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RE: X-Bows given preliminary approval
2008/10/30 09:45:49
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ORIGINAL: SilverKype
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
I will agree that it appears there are a lot of guys not killing deer this year in archery .. they are wounding and loosing them !!!!!!
Let me guess.. you've never wounded a deer. You sound like an anti-hunter.
I just gotta say.. Dr Trout .. Where did I say anything about not many people killing deer in archery? You agree? With what? Are you okay?  I know where you're getting info. about people wounding deer. Why not say it to them on their website? You feel a need to come on here and say it. Those guys are trying to get help on what to do, because they are not sure and YOU as a HUNTER go to a differnt website and trash talk it. Might as well be anti-hunter bro. It's a small world.
My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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