Helpful ReplyHot!So what is OFF TOPIC allowed?

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DeadGator401
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/24 17:04:29 (permalink)
Really? I thought people would be running here with smoke coming off the keyboards after Dark Brandon pulled another big move today.
eyesandgillz
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/24 21:35:10 (permalink)
BS move, simple as that.   Pay your debts, simple as that.   Us working folk shouldn't have to pay these loans back for them. 
And yet, you have the whiney arse libs complaining 10k and 20k loan forgiveness isn't enough.  Definitely leading us down the pinko commy road.
 
Sure will buy some votes for dems this November though....
 
Is that enough for you?  Lol
post edited by eyesandgillz - 2022/08/24 21:41:10
MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/24 22:09:42 (permalink)
I’ll say this- the right wing mediasphere is really losing their collective minds over this. Greg Gutfield is now threatening a “real insurrection”. I can’t wait for Lauren Boebert’s take.

We are gonna get some grade A prime memes outta this.
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/24 22:39:23 (permalink)
I am interested in how this is even remotely a solution to the problem? Do we do these interest checks every 10 years now when the next batch of young people are drowning in debt?

Why not those that qualify, by test scores/grades and choose a major in fields that lead to actual careers, have a set low rate loan? This $10k for most is covering interest. Why not take most of that interest out of it to begin with?

Or have some sort of universities set up that are nonprofit and funded by advertisement/other that we seem to make other things free. Cut out all of the luxuries of these colleges and have student dorms like the concrete block rooms with bunk beds that cost peanuts. Have high quality classes and instructors for much less cost. Competition will lower the costs at others.
MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/24 23:02:35 (permalink)
Porktown

Why not those that qualify, by test scores/grades and choose a major in fields that lead to actual careers, have a set low rate loan? This $10k for most is covering interest. Why not take most of that interest out of it to begin with?




Part of the plan does put a cap on how interest accrues on student loans moving forward. There’s actually a good bit more than just debt forgiveness.

Will this be something that has to done every year? Or every 5 years? Or every 10? Maybe, maybe not. There’s no doubt that out of control student loan debt will continue to be a problem if deeper systemic problems aren’t addressed. But we are also in the midst of some unique economic circumstances right now, so one could argue there is a particularly pressing need at the present time.

This could be a good first step in the right direction if it’s part of a larger plan. But whether additional steps are taken may depend on who is in charge of the federal government. I doubt Ron Desantis would do anything to address student loan debt, but there are certainly enough prominent democrats making noise about it to keep it on a Democratic administration’s radar.
DeadGator401
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/24 23:49:19 (permalink)
eyesandgillz
BS move, simple as that.   Pay your debts, simple as that.   Us working folk shouldn't have to pay these loans back for them. 
And yet, you have the whiney arse libs complaining 10k and 20k loan forgiveness isn't enough.  Definitely leading us down the pinko commy road.
 
Sure will buy some votes for dems this November though....
 
Is that enough for you?  Lol



Yeah honestly that about sums up the other side. Not even a bad take tbh. 

Were you upset when the Government bailed out the Auto Industry?
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 07:33:18 (permalink)
MyWar
we are also in the midst of some unique economic circumstances right now, so one could argue there is a particularly pressing need at the present time.

The most pressing economic circumstance right now is runaway inflation. One, two, three, or 200 million could argue this is a horrible idea at the present time to address…. At the very least, playing with fire. Most likely adding gasoline to the fire.

If inflation goes up, I will hold my nose and vote Republican the next election, and I won’t be the only independent/moderate doing so. Just hoping it isn’t the orange idiot. Like many that have worked their whole life that is watching all of the savings from that work evaporating. I’ve lost more in the past year than what “only those making $400K per year” would be paying in proposed tax increases in 5 years. I’m not blaming dotard2 for the current inflation, but this and other campaign promises are making it worse. This should have been step 4-5, done at a time when the economy could handle it. Extending the payment deferral, fine, it wouldn’t make a difference since already happening. This is going to “give young people the ability” to buy houses, cars and other stuff that is already 1.5 times the prices they should be. Stuff that they shouldn’t have the funds for. Things that took the rest of us years of saving to afford. Sorry, this is some of the worst legislation at the wrong time.
post edited by Porktown - 2022/08/25 07:38:09
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 07:56:51 (permalink)
Right now, our unique economic circumstance, NEEDS a recession. It needs a housing bubble burst. To stop inflation, you NEED to slow spending. You don’t gift certain select people with more disposable income to higher demand. Supply < Demand = Inflation. Only way to solve it is to lessen demand when you see there is an issue keeping up with supply. Adding disposable income (government handouts like this) adds to demand. It is pretty simple economics. When you do stuff like this, you add to inflation and make the next recession even more severe. Most irresponsible legislation, when it comes to timing, that I can recall. Ever.
MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 09:04:25 (permalink)
Yea I guess I just can’t get behind the idea that people need to suffer so my 401k does better.
LDD
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 09:09:35 (permalink)
Yeah, agree with most of what has been said and I understand many of the sentiments expressed  There needs to be a lower interest rate on federal student loans, or none at all.  The other issue is that there's not enough federal money available so many students have to go to the private loans which are absolutely atrocious.  We need college educated professionals to fill very important roles in our society and the middle class is being priced out of an education, that's a reality.  
 
My son is currently at a technical institute which will provide him with a very good paying technical engineering job when he finishes.  His total education will cost just north of $100,000.00.  Newsflash, most technical colleges don't give academic money.  Most of their scholarships are tied to $$ need.  He gathered up some HS scholarship money but that's a drop in the bucket.  We have about $40,000 saved for him and a third of my GI Bill (girls get the other 2/3) is about another 20 grand.  That leaves him somewhere between 30 and 40 grand short.  Hopefully he can scab together enough federal loans and summer money to make it happen.  
post edited by LDD - 2022/08/25 09:58:31
EMitch
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 10:33:19 (permalink)
Porktown
I am interested in how this is even remotely a solution to the problem? Do we do these interest checks every 10 years now when the next batch of young people are drowning in d



MyWar
Will this be something that has to be done every year? Or every 5 years? Or every 10? Maybe, maybe not.

 
It's just a vote buying scheme so the 'Crats can get their young supporters out to the polls, so it'll probably only surface when the Dems are down in the polls. I'm surprised a lawsuit wasn't filed immediately, (or maybe even an impeachment proceeding) due to the illegality of the Biden Plan. Even Pelosi has stated the President cannot do what he did. Geeze!!! Even a former Dem advisor has stated "He's pouring gasoline on the fire of inflation".

Never try to argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
eyesandgillz
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 11:08:54 (permalink)
The problem needs addressed at the source, the cost of a college education. 
 
Because someone chose to attend a high priced, elite school for 6 or more years to get a graduate degree, or higher, in social work, history or some other low paying field, does not make it a problem for the rest of us.  We should not have to financially support these poor choices.  
 
If they have to suffer and work multiple jobs for several years to pay off their school debt, then so be it.  
 
The US is turning into the Looney Toons states of America.  
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 11:48:38 (permalink)
LDD
Yeah, agree with most of what has been said and I understand many of the sentiments expressed  There needs to be a lower interest rate on federal student loans, or none at all.  The other issue is that there's not enough federal money available so many students have to go to the private loans which are absolutely atrocious.  We need college educated professionals to fill very important roles in our society and the middle class is being priced out of an education, that's a reality.  
 

This needs to be step 1.  If it comes down to elimination of interest debt for others that are in need, maybe that is step 3 or 4.  Step 1 should not be $10k for anyone with student loan debt???  Those that paid off, thanks.  Those that never had, sorry.
 
eyesandgillz
The problem needs addressed at the source, the cost of a college education. 
  

Nail meet hammer!  I would love for this to be step 1.  Whether it is the feds doing or states or corporate taking the lead.
 
eyesandgillz
Because someone chose to attend a high priced, elite school for 6 or more years to get a graduate degree, or higher, in social work, history or some other low paying field, does not make it a problem for the rest of us.  We should not have to financially support these poor choices.  
 

I agree with the gist of this. 
 
As we discussed many times, I would love to see the most pressing jobs that we have, engineering, doctor, accounting/business, IT, some may even think educators are important...  I would expand this to vo-tec's as well to lessen the burden on the trades to have to train on the job (which every profession does anyway, but rarely the basics).  These professions have some sort of lowered tuition or some sort of loan forgiveness program that would attract kids to pursue.  For those going into history, art, fashion, whatever that is "fun, you'll never work a day in your life if you love your job", don't get the same perks.  Maybe a tier of importance going off of jobs report data.  Do your best to have it corporate or other funded.  If Tostito's can spend $Ms on college football, many can find other profitable ways to be advertising to make college itself more affordable.  If the feds want to get involved, tax incentives for companies that are part.
 
As others have mentioned when discussing years ago.  Do we really need 5 star accommodations at state schools?  Have schools with basic dorms, cafeteria dining halls and other cuts, besides the education itself.  Have 5 star professors with 2-3 start accommodations and charge half as much.
 
MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 11:52:54 (permalink)
EMitch

It's just a vote buying scheme so the 'Crats can get their young supporters out to the polls, so it'll probably only surface when the Dems are down in the polls. I'm surprised a lawsuit wasn't filed immediately, (or maybe even an impeachment proceeding) due to the illegality of the Biden Plan. Even Pelosi has stated the President cannot do what he did. Geeze!!! Even a former Dem advisor has stated "He's pouring gasoline on the fire of inflation".


Impeachment.

Over student loan forgiveness.

Sure. Ok.

How about this… You wanna talk about pouring gasoline on a fire?

Republicans are already facing backlash from Dobbs, and a very real possibility that they will under perform substantially in the midterms. And you want them to effectively take $10,000 out of the pockets of millions of Americans by getting a court to throw this EO out?

I triple dog dare republicans to do this.



Also, let’s remember how it’s only “vote buying” when the other team does it. It’s totally NOT vote buying when elected republicans shamelessly pander to the wealthiest people in the country and prop up corporate America with giveaways and tax cuts and subsidies for oil and gas and whatever other dying industries donated to their campaigns… but when democrats do anything that helps people who are struggling it’s ALWAYS “free stuff” or “vote buying”. Do I have that right?
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 13:53:58 (permalink)
My boat identifies itself as a student.  Can I have my $10K?
 
I saw that somewhere else and had a little laugh.
EMitch
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 22:24:38 (permalink)
MyWar
EMitch

It's just a vote buying scheme so the 'Crats can get their young supporters out to the polls, so it'll probably only surface when the Dems are down in the polls. I'm surprised a lawsuit wasn't filed immediately, (or maybe even an impeachment proceeding) due to the illegality of the Biden Plan. Even Pelosi has stated the President cannot do what he did. Geeze!!! Even a former Dem advisor has stated "He's pouring gasoline on the fire of inflation".


Impeachment.

Over student loan forgiveness.

Sure. Ok.



 
MyWar,  I don't know how it is but you never fail to completely misunderstand my posts. The President has no, (make that NO) authority by executive order to automatically cancel billions of dollars owed to the government. The purse strings are held by Congress, so if they run it through and approve it, it's a go. Otherwise, it's just throwing a bone to voters 'cause it sounds good and it was his campaign promise. I don't remember it being brought up in bill form. Do you? You know that companies and corporations get to keep all that covid money, but that was issued by Congress, (they actually increased well over Trump's relief bid), and all that was under different circumstances.

Never try to argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 22:50:07 (permalink)
Executive order and tax payer money.

https://www.usatoday.com/...er-allowed/5582667002/

I’m hoping Congress can stop this, but most executive orders end up spending tax payer dollars. Anything that any politician does on official business, is spending tax dollars. Most spend tax dollars on their own time too…
DeadGator401
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 23:24:29 (permalink)
EMitch
MyWar
EMitch

It's just a vote buying scheme so the 'Crats can get their young supporters out to the polls, so it'll probably only surface when the Dems are down in the polls. I'm surprised a lawsuit wasn't filed immediately, (or maybe even an impeachment proceeding) due to the illegality of the Biden Plan. Even Pelosi has stated the President cannot do what he did. Geeze!!! Even a former Dem advisor has stated "He's pouring gasoline on the fire of inflation".


Impeachment.

Over student loan forgiveness.

Sure. Ok.



 
MyWar,  I don't know how it is but you never fail to completely misunderstand my posts. The President has no, (make that NO) authority by executive order to automatically cancel billions of dollars owed to the government. The purse strings are held by Congress, so if they run it through and approve it, it's a go. Otherwise, it's just throwing a bone to voters 'cause it sounds good and it was his campaign promise. I don't remember it being brought up in bill form. Do you? You know that companies and corporations get to keep all that covid money, but that was issued by Congress, (they actually increased well over Trump's relief bid), and all that was under different circumstances.



Nope - you're incorrect friend. You don't remember it being brought up in bill form because it wasn't needed. 

Have a gander - https://www.npr.org/2022/08/24/1118879917/student-loan-forgiveness-biden

If ya don't trust NPR as a reliable source, use google and I'm sure you'll find one suitable.


"Can a President even do this without the support of Congress?This question has been at the heart of the debt cancellation debate for several years now. After all, any move that essentially requires the government to spend money (or lose it) generally has to go through Congress. Right?
Perhaps anticipating legal pushback, the Biden administration published its legal reasoning in a memorandum at the same time it announced the debt cancellation package.
The memo says The HEROES Act, first enacted after the September 11 attacks, gives the Education Secretary the power to grant relief from student loan requirements during specific periods, think: wartime or a national emergency.
As such, the memo argues, "in present circumstances, this authority could be used to effectuate a program of categorical debt cancellation directed at addressing the financial harms caused by the COVID-19 pandemic."
The administration made a similar argument in justifying its renovation of the troubled Public Service Loan Forgiveness program.
That said, it's possible, perhaps likely, the move will be challenged in court."




MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/25 23:28:54 (permalink)
EMitch
The President has no, (make that NO) authority by executive order to automatically cancel billions of dollars owed to the government. The purse strings are held by Congress, so if they run it through and approve it, it's a go. Otherwise, it's just throwing a bone to voters 'cause it sounds good and it was his campaign promise. I don't remember it being brought up in bill form. Do you? You know that companies and corporations get to keep all that covid money, but that was issued by Congress, (they actually increased well over Trump's relief bid), and all that was under different circumstances.


A bunch of lawyers in the justice department say that he does. The legal authority is based on the HEROES act and the state of emergency due to covid declared by trump.

https://apnews.com/articl...75c0e4e1a39b0c098bd48a

Even if you think he doesn’t, then fine, republicans can challenge it in court and commit political suicide. That’s the party’s choice. But even challenging this order will be difficult because they will need to find somebody who was harmed by the action.

Note that the department of education does have broad legal authority to forgive student loans, and in fact they do it all the time:

https://slate.com/news-an...gal-supreme-court.html

But the idea that this is some kind of impeachable offense is just kind of silly and absurd.
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/26 08:42:24 (permalink)
MyWar


Note that the department of education does have broad legal authority to forgive student loans, and in fact they do it all the time:

https://slate.com/news-an...gal-supreme-court.html


Thanks for posting this.  
 
I know you are posting to show the authority of Dept of Ed to do this, I am not arguing that point.  I do find these other programs to be much more in line with what I noted above of targeting certain people of need or professions to encourage younger people to pursue.  Although, I don't know the details in the programs, if they are for the future or just those currently holding loans.  But if they are for future, this to me is where the focus should be. 
 
The blanket, anyone that went to college in the past 10 years, here is $10k is kind of rotten to the other people in this country IMO and I understand completely the outrage.  Yes, some may be struggling and I would be fine with targeting those people (appears they already are per your link though).  Public servants like police, teachers and others, seems like already are too, which I personally have no issues with.  My wife finished loan payments, so not eligible.  She has a masters degree from a local Catholic university that was about $80K in loans, about $120K payments after interest accruement.  Making $12/hr to sub in the Hill District then full time sub ($14/hr) teaching kids from St Clair Village before it was torn down for years before getting a full time position.  I'm fine with this program, even not getting anything personally.  These professions take a certain person to deal with what they do and I have no issues with a bit of an incentive for those people to pursue over other degrees that could make them much more well off financially.  There is currently a national shortage of teachers for a reason.  I would hope those in social work are eligible for this as well.  Highly underpaid for the clientele they are dealing with.  
 
I hope this would turn into target those with STEM degrees.  They are the future innovators to solve issues like weening off of foreign oil or stopping the fentanyl/opioid crisis or dealing with the effects of global warming to help prepare farmers, flood prevention, wildfire prevention, etc.  I do think some of this is already addressed with those going into public service.  Trust me, as a "second class citizen" that wouldn't qualify for any of this, due to already paying my loans off, I don't have issues with encouraging our brightest students to pursue our national and world crisis issues, over them going into finance and figuring out how to make themselves ultra wealthy.  I don't have any issue with anyone choosing that route either, but if we can incentivize a few more to go in the path of saving mankind, I wouldn't have an issue paying a few more $ in taxes.
LDD
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/26 09:10:33 (permalink)
Porktown
MyWar


Note that the department of education does have broad legal authority to forgive student loans, and in fact they do it all the time:

https://slate.com/news-an...gal-supreme-court.html


 
The blanket, anyone that went to college in the past 10 years, here is $10k is kind of rotten to the other people in this country IMO and I understand completely the outrage.  



I don't really get the outrage.  If people are just getting "outraged" because the gov't is flipping some nickels to peasants and haven't been "outraged" by everything from tax loopholes to bailouts to excessive PPP loans...on and on and on...then they're NOT paying attention. It never ceases to amaze me how upset people get when their neighbors, literally people in their tax bracket get a little break from the gov't.  I guess it's human nature. 
 
Pork, apply this "loan forgiveness" to your wife's loan debt.  It's helpful but not a "bailout" by any means.  For most people this only means somewhat of a reduction in their overall total and it helps out. 
Out of all the ways that our government loses and wastes our money in unaccountable ways, this is way down my list.  
The other complete misrepresentation that is happening here, generally, is that blue collar and trades workers aren't getting helped by this.  Last I checked, trade schools cost A LOT of money and readily accept federal student loan $.  
 
Meanwhile, back in Gotham, the average billionaire pays a tax rate of under 5%.  
 
 
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/26 09:45:25 (permalink)
LDD
 
I don't really get the outrage.  If people are just getting "outraged" because the gov't is flipping some nickels to peasants and haven't been "outraged" by everything from tax loopholes to bailouts to excessive PPP loans...on and on and on...then they're NOT paying attention. It never ceases to amaze me how upset people get when their neighbors, literally people in their tax bracket get a little break from the gov't.  I guess it's human nature. 
 
Pork, apply this "loan forgiveness" to your wife's loan debt.  It's helpful but not a "bailout" by any means.  For most people this only means somewhat of a reduction in their overall total and it helps out. 
Out of all the ways that our government loses and wastes our money in unaccountable ways, this is way down my list.  
The other complete misrepresentation that is happening here, generally, is that blue collar and trades workers aren't getting helped by this.  Last I checked, trade schools cost A LOT of money and readily accept federal student loan $.  
 
Meanwhile, back in Gotham, the average billionaire pays a tax rate of under 5%.  
 

I can't say that I am outraged (I strongly do not agree), but some likely do feel outraged.  The GOP talking point is understandable to the "blue collar" folks that never took out a student loan.  If calling college grads peasants, what do you call them?  If you graduated from HS and went straight to work, learned on the job, however many years later take out a small business loan to start your own trade company (or whatever), same concept as a student loan in furthering your employment, why wouldn't this be eligible?
 
My wife would be eligible for the public servant one, if she hadn't paid hers off already.  I have no issue with those targeted loan forgiveness programs, as noted no political fallout from them either or really would have been political suicide.  Speaking of which, I think that I misspoke on those that are struggling already being covered, with those that are really struggling beyond financial, being the disabled loan forgiveness.  There are probably some that are struggling financially that this blanket forgiveness would help, but target just them.  Not everyone that happens to have student loan debt.  Going from a $32B program to $330B is a bit of a difference.  Some experts say that it will cost the average taxpayer $2K to pay for this.  In addition, you are throwing $350B into the economy that is already overheated (40 year high inflation).  Democratic economists are even saying that it will drive this up, not down...
 
https://www.cnbc.com/2022...ation.html  
 
Again, I could get behind those in the STEM or other "for the overall good" type professions.  
 
Agree, the ultra wealthy don't pay what they should.  They own the government and no matter "how hard they try"  , they can't seem to get those loopholes closed.  They really try hard though.   I don't see how this has anything to do with that though.  That is a bit of a "whataboutism".  Not that I don't fully agree with you though.  It isn't the topic at hand.
post edited by Porktown - 2022/08/26 09:46:36
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/26 10:24:22 (permalink)
Inflation is about the worst thing for the middle class that you can have.  Make no mistake, this is a middle class and working poor issue only, the higher classes have their ways of benefiting from this. 
 
The difference from middle class to the working poor, really comes down to savings.  The middle class has higher paying jobs and able to save money.  Most do not have the luxury of knowing the market like hedge fund managers or have enough saved like the higher classes to be invested with one of them, most are doing stock basics, mutual funds, bonds or maybe some individual stocks.  Inflation is devaluation of all money, so it hurts the working poor the most obviously, living paycheck to paycheck.  This devaluates the middle class's saved money as well as having less to save and pushes them (me/likely us) closer to the working poor.  
 
Here is what will happen.
 
$10K to someone.  It costs them $2K to pay for the program.  They basically get $8K.  Since so much money is flooded into an already inflated economy, people will spend it.  The housing market that is already 1.5 times over priced will go to 2 times.  Rent will keep going up as a result.  Food prices that they claim are only 10% up, will go 12%, since people will no longer cut back.  Basically, what $8K buys you today, is what $7K bought you last year.  Next year, it will be $9K for what $8K bought you.  For every dollar you have saved, it devaluates, since you likely are not keeping up with inflation in your interest or market earnings.  If you have more than $80K saved, you will be down, since that $80K would have the purchasing power of what $70K did prior.  If you have $400K saved, it is basically like having $350K saved in purchasing power.  You are basically crushing the wealth of the middle class from this and any bill that would cause inflation like this one definitely will.  
 
You may think that it devaluates the rich.  Initially it might, but they have hedge fund managers that can manipulate the market to make that money back, and then some.  The average middle class person does not have that insider info of multiple hedge funds pulling money at the same time from a stock, at the same time holding calls or puts on equities to profit from the shift in prices they are making happen, then buy back in when the price is completely undervalued.  Most middle class will see the undervalued stock and want to jump on it, but lost all of their available money on other stocks that were manipulated...  The market is beyond rigged for the ultra wealthy it is sickening.  The whole "pay fair taxes" isn't even close to how much the ultra wealthy bend over the middle class compared to the market.  Most in the middle class are just fine with that 10% S&P average, until inflation happens, where they can only pray to hit the 10% average, this usually drops well below the average "fearing an upcoming recession".  The ultra rich can crash the market with how much they have in it by pulling at the same time.  Cause a panic and have the middle class pull.  "Devalue" solid companies with solid financials, then buy when low.  What do they care if their $20B isn't making money for a few months or even years, when they know they can double it overnight when they all put back in and those companies stock price instantly doubles.
 
At this point, why even bother with the whataboutisms with the upper class.  They have it rigged and always will.  Horrible ideas like this inflationary nightmare that Biden is about to release is about the worst thing to ever happen to the middle class.  If it isn't repealed, I will change my voter registration from Independent to Republican and vow to never vote Democrat again.  Not outraged, but a realist.
LDD
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/26 10:29:02 (permalink)
Porktown
 
Agree, the ultra wealthy don't pay what they should.  They own the government and no matter "how hard they try"  , they can't seem to get those loopholes closed.  They really try hard though.   I don't see how this has anything to do with that though.  That is a bit of a "whataboutism".  Not that I don't fully agree with you though.  It isn't the topic at hand.



Oh, it's absolutely "whattaboutism" and I'll own that.  My point is the current "selective outrage" about "fairness"...people are actually throwing that around...F-in FAIRNESS!!??  The application of that term here is absurd to me based on all of the other "unfairness" in our current economy and gov't.  
 
If you're an adult in this country and you don't realize that there's not even a perception of "fairness" in reality then I don't know what to tell you. The only two places that this country even remotely attempts "fairness" are the courts (people's rights/laws) and public schools.  Everything else is all about what you can get or get away with.  
 
Having said that, what this will do to an already overheated economy is a good discussion.  
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/26 10:45:18 (permalink)
LDD
Oh, it's absolutely "whattaboutism" and I'll own that.  My point is the current "selective outrage" about "fairness"...people are actually throwing that around...F-in FAIRNESS!!??  The application of that term here is absurd to me based on all of the other "unfairness" in our current economy and gov't.  
 
If you're an adult in this country and you don't realize that there's not even a perception of "fairness" in reality then I don't know what to tell you. The only two places that this country even remotely attempts "fairness" are the courts (people's rights/laws) and public schools.  Everything else is all about what you can get or get away with.  
 
Having said that, what this will do to an already overheated economy is a good discussion.  


Yeah, I am going to revise that I am not outraged, I am.  Not due to fairness, but do the what this will do the the middle class and working poor.
 
For those eligible for the Pell, getting $20K, honestly, I don't mind, if only them.  They were most likely from the working poor, probably one of the first in their family to go to college.  Possibly one of the few that are struggling financially.  I highly doubt there are all too many that qualify for this $20K to overheat an already overheated economy.  Probably similar to the other programs that likely are doing very little to inflation.  To these people I say, welcome to the middle class.  Keep out of trouble, show up to work, put aside a little each month and you will likely stay in the middle class.  Teach your kids the same and they likely will be too.
 
If this passes as is.  Say you and your wife were eligible for $20K.  You receive $40K.  Which would be $36K, since your taxes will go up to pay for it.  But hey, I got $40K as a couple and only had to pay $4K, why not?  $36K overnight is like a drug dealer score!!!  If you had $400K in savings, you basically lost $14K on what it will do to the actual value of your overall wealth.
 
I'll even vote for Trump and get myself a MAGA hat.  You guys probably pegged me as a right wing nutter anyway.
LDD
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/26 11:01:35 (permalink)
Porktown
LDD
Oh, it's absolutely "whattaboutism" and I'll own that.  My point is the current "selective outrage" about "fairness"...people are actually throwing that around...F-in FAIRNESS!!??  The application of that term here is absurd to me based on all of the other "unfairness" in our current economy and gov't.  
 
If you're an adult in this country and you don't realize that there's not even a perception of "fairness" in reality then I don't know what to tell you. The only two places that this country even remotely attempts "fairness" are the courts (people's rights/laws) and public schools.  Everything else is all about what you can get or get away with.  
 
Having said that, what this will do to an already overheated economy is a good discussion.  




 
I'll even vote for Trump and get myself a MAGA hat.  You guys probably pegged me as a right wing nutter anyway.




Good to see you've become a single issue voter!   Maybe step away from the abyss for a minute.  How much coffee have you had this morning?
eyesandgillz
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/26 11:44:25 (permalink)
Oh so many other reasons to not ever, ever, ever vote for someone that has the "modern" D next to their name in elections.
 
 
ICE NUT
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/26 11:45:14 (permalink)
There are alot more issues than just single one.About time pork to wise up!!I do have an issue Why do universities pay coaches for sports millions of dollars? How many kids could be helped with the 93 million they just doled out to Sabin? Lot's of student loan help there??? I know but thats what brings in the wins which is so much more important than the student non athlete!
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/26 12:05:18 (permalink)
First off. 
 
This is assuming that it goes through after challenges, etc. and it causes the inflation increase that even Democratic economists are predicting.  If it doesn't, I hold the right to change my mind of joining the brain dead cult.
 
Every Presidential election is a coin flip to me when it comes to issues/policies.  I agree with the moderate Republicans just as much as I do the moderate Democrats.  I rarely agree with the far left or far right.  So, assuming it is Biden vs. Trump, policy wise, I see about as much good/bad of each, leaning toward Biden before this disaster.  Overall, I lean more left on most policy, until it comes to paying for it.  Some I believe is worth the cost, others seem like complete pork.  Overall idea sounds good, until nonsense added provisions that benefit only a few and cost us all are added in.  Republicans basically say, we aren't going to do much and with the savings, Porktown you get a tax cut that will last a few years, the ultra wealthy you get bigger tax cut and doesn't expire.  I don't mind the cut, but I prefer investment in things that really do benefit all.    
 
Trump's "off the field issues" as well as his admiration of dicktatortots are horrible and to me, makes it worth dealing with the wokeness, pandering to the far left and other Dem groups that I don't relate to at all.  That is about it though.  
 
Effectively giving away 10% of my life earnings, is a YUGE game changer.  Some might even say the biggest game changer of all time.  That is telling my kids sorry, I don't have a dime for your education, hopefully AOC will cancel your debt when this crazy land of polarized politics has her as President.  Driving the same 2008 truck that is falling apart another 10 years instead of another 2-3.  Cancelling vacations and holding off on renovation projects.  Likely working full time until I am 65 now, instead of my plan to cut it to part time at a bait shop or custom furniture design studio and try to do more things (fishing) when I am 55 and still capable of wading or launching a boat without help or making things in a workshop or other things that I enjoy before I can't. 
 
Call it selfish, I don't GAF.  I'll reduce, reuse and recycle.  I'll switch to a mix of renewable energy.  I'll switch to an EV eventually.  I will be kind to my neighbor, no matter the skin color, religion or who they want to be in a relationship with.  I will do most things for the common good.  Giving away 10% of what I spent 30+ years building???  To add.  Are these Democratic leaders giving up their wealth?  If they all agree to work until they are 65, making the same pay as I do and give up as much as their savings to be equal to what I have, then I will gladly join in on their "save the world" agenda.  They are pigs with lipstick, nothing more.
 
MAGA!!!!!!
post edited by Porktown - 2022/08/26 12:11:41
crappiefisher
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/08/26 15:27:52 (permalink)
"How much coffee have you had this morning?"  
 
  
 
 Checked out that spot I ran into you last at Arthur. A chick was fishing there and said she fished it every day this week. Catching Bass, Channel Cats and a few Pike on Shiners. Lake was low and that tree has fallen.
post edited by crappiefisher - 2022/08/26 15:39:57
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