Well when is the herd going to be thined enough cut the deer harvest back again?
 
I think alot of you are in fantasy land....or just have some fantastic hunting spots......
 

Most hunters in this state would be shocked to see what a 3.5 or 4.5 year old buck really looks like.  With age, wonderful things happen.

IMO, shooting most of our bucks at 2.5 is still too young. 

 
Well, I go by the belief that you can't even make soup with the antlers. 
 
I like a nice young deer, preferably a buck as I think the hormones in a male deer give the meat a different taste than a doe.  I, as do many others, don't give two craps about antler size when I am hunting.  I am interested in the meat that I can eat.  All I see out of this is the opportunity for trophy hunters to kill a big racked buck with tough old meat.  Thanks, but no thanks.  Again, I see the PA Game Mismanagement Commission's mission is to get bigger bucks to get more trophy hunters to give them money from out of state.  PA wants to compete with the big buck areas of the midwest. 
 
Money, money money should be embrodiered around the PGC patches on their uniforms.

ORIGINAL: scaremypsu

The PGC's duty is to manage the states wildlife populations for everyone, even people who don't hunt.  There are many stake holders, whether you are a hunter, farmer, a motorist, someone with a garden in their back yard, timber company, insurance company, ect.  I do relize that we fund the PGC, but they are obligated to manage deer populations for a variety of stake holders, not just us.  The reason the PGC is not funded through the general tax dollars is to be somewhat independant from political influence (not sure how much).  However,  Almost every other state is funded through general tax dollars.  Also, for those asking where the money goes, again read the annual report in the game news or the PGC website.    

 
You know, I keep hearing how the PGC needs to manage deer for everyone, not just the hunters.  Then everyone needs to pay for it.  Until they do (which will happen when enough hunters leave or don't join the sport for whatever reason and the PGC can no longer financially survive without non-hunter dollars), they need to completely cater to their only paying customers.
 
Think of it in business terms -- if you are paying for something and the company you are buying from tells you that while you are paying for it, they are more concerned with satisfying the wishes of others that pay nothing for their goods or services. How long are you going to keep doing business with that company?  Especially when you were at one time very satisfied with their goods and services and when that changed your concerns and complaints to their customer service department were either ignored or worse yet, you were told that they were changing their business model to cater to non-customers, but you still get to pay and that was that.
 
But it could and may get worse.  When public, non-hunter dollars get involved, which they will need to if the number of hunters continues to decline (again, for whatever reason), hunters really won't get a say at all.

Slate, they know who they are!!!!!

ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

 
You fellas think private property is the place to be. Come on up to amish country. If it is not posted around here it is treated as public ground. I saw hunters on our 60 acres almost everyday.

 
I agree with that statement, the property owner where I hunt is posting next year because of all the amish hunting without permission.  When he ran a few out this year they said "Its not Posted"  they think any land without a yellow sign is free game for them to drive every deer out of.
 
P.S.  If any Amish are reading this please reply, Id like to hear from you.

Amish shot 17 bucks, 15 doe in one day last week where I archery hunt.  Another 7 bucks on another drive.  They bring like 40 people.  I'm told the deer were not tagged and a lot of illegal bucks.  How do you identify deer running thru mountain laurel.  You don't, you can't.  GC was called.  Fella at work saw amish dragging a 4 pt.  Told him it wasn't legal.  Amish dropped the buck and took off.

Here's another PA public land buck killed last week where I hunt.  If I never saw him but end up hunting there, don't see any deer, does this mean the spot sucks ??  If I hunt there the first day and first Saturday and see a few 3 and 4 pts, does this mean AR is not working?  Does the size of this buck tell me AR IS working ?  Not necessarily.  What if the wind consisently blows wrong .. does this mean there are no deer?  What if the gypsy moths come thru and hammer the oaks.  Does this mean there are no deer and the GC has allowed hunters to harvest too many deer?  Or, if I go there and kill this buck, does it mean the spot is great??  What defines a great spot ??  Fanastic spots are MADE by hunters, hard work, and spending time in the woods.  If I don't spend at least 4 times as much time scouting as I do hunting, I would not find a spot that I could consider fantastic.  I cannot depend on luck nor previous experiences.   Silly to do so.  If I'm looking to kill a buck, you think next year I'll hunt the area where the amish killed 17 bucks?  Only one way to find out.

so if the pgc feels that they decide to sell all the doe lisc. they can for the money, the hunters should determan how many they should buy and where to and not to shoot deer??? i thought that was the pgc's job, to manage?? why pay a referee if it's up to the players, any how, to control the game?? 
 
as for making the state a trophy state,, right on, so Alt could get his name on a silver plaque somewhere in a trophy room.  

Yes it is the pgc responsibility to manage and to do what is best for all species of wildlife. Do you really think that the game commission wants the deer population to go down the drain? Yes you are entitled to your own opinion but these are highly qualified and well trained individuals who make these decisons on wildlife management "like it or not".
 
It is the people that are the most difficult to manage "just read this thread". Of course everyone wants to see more deer but are we ALL in fact doing our part? Do we as hunters help the ecosystem thrive and carry out its natural cycle or do we sit on our a**es and wait for someone else to do it? Do property owners develop parcels of sustainable wildlife habitat to build homes so they can get wealthy and then have the buyers complain about wildlife being in their back yards? Who is the victim here the wildlife or the people? Do all of us hunters abide by the rules? Do some of us know the so called "serial poacher" in your county or do you just think its one person and it cant affect the population that much. 
 
Yes there are some things we have no control of but before you start whining and complaining that there are no deer in PA ask yourself; Am I truly doing my part to help the solution? No you dont have to go out and plant three thousand acres of food plots, but we can All as hunters and sportsman can give something more to the ecosystem if hunting is truly something we are passionate about and want to conserve.
 

ORIGINAL: Carpet Bagger
Well when is the herd going to be thined enough cut the deer harvest back again?

 
When the habitat recovers.  In much of the "big woods" it will be many more years.  Like I said, time to adjust. 
 
You keep talking deer numbers.  The numbers are finally where they need to be to allow the habitat the time to recover.  That will take years if not a decade to do so.  If the numbers are kept in check during that time then they will allow the numbers to increase somewhat.
 
You will never see the herds of 20 deer you were used to, ever, if the deer herd is managed the way it should be.

DC -- you ever hear of the little general?  You guys brothers?  You remind me of him alot. 
 
So .. what is the solution to YOUR no deer problem ?  I mean, I see the frustration.  Considering the GC is not going to change its course of action for you, what are you going to do ?  ..besides showing your frustration on a forum.
 
If this NO deer stuff REALLY bothered you, I'd think you'd be out there fixing it.

ORIGINAL: Dream Catcher
Habitat recovers . You are all crazy & probably haven't hunted there much.

 
Areas that I have hunted are devoid of sapling oaks, beech, hickory.  Ferns covering the forest floor.  The mature trees do produce substantial mast, but browse is the mainstay for deer and there is little.
 
If you can see over 100 yards in the woods, overbrowsing is a big issue.

carpetb, in reply to dt, sorry you feel i degraded your uncle alt. i never said he was a moron. who's talking about the bear in PA. anyhow?? people only initiate the problem by what they can get away with by what the referees allow them to do. a ton of doe lisc. in recent years leads to a ton of deers killed. if the pgc feels the population is where they want it now, yipee for them, i think the hunting lisc. will decrease dramatically in the next few years.
i've read about how well the deer population estimates are so close to being accurate by the extensive study of butcher shops and returned deer cards. highway kill and such. now i'm beaing told about all the poachers, the farmers who kill deer for crop damage and so forth. how does this fit into the estimates accurately?? 

ORIGINAL: Dream Catcher

Habitat recovers . You are all crazy & probably haven't hunted there much. There's more food for wildlife up there than you could imagine and always was . The PGC has you all fooled . The big woods has held large numbers of healthy deer . As I said before once an area is depleted the deer move to another area where there is enough browse . It has always been that way pockets of many deer until the PGC issued the slaughter & thier own demise . Bye Bye PGC overpowered , underknowledged , caretakers of the lumber & insurance companies.

 You just made the arguement for less deer. Once the area is DEPLETED of browse they move on. To where? To deplete another area in the forest. You just DEPLETED your next forest. It's gone. Do a little reading on the subject of sustainable forestry.

ORIGINAL: Dream Catcher

Will fix in spring plant'n time. Do what I can thats all. No more money to PGC solved.

 
oh, so there ARE deer.  You just want them to come to you.  I see.
 
..and you're not going to buy a license.
 
Brillant.

ORIGINAL: doubletaper
now i'm beaing told about all the poachers, the farmers who kill deer for crop damage and so forth. how does this fit into the estimates accurately?? 

 
The numbers are small enough that there are statistically of little consequence.