Wayne, I estimate 21,000,003. My estimate from last year plus me, my brother and a friend each shot a buck this year...WF

RSB

I have no idea why he made any comment about reporting rates since it has so little bearing on what the harvest estimate is going to be. Regardless of the reporting rate the estimate is going to about the same. An increase in the reporting rate doesn’t change the estimate by much

He probably made the comment because he fully understands the LARGE influence the PGC estimated reporting rate has on the estimated harvest and from the above post you either do not understand the coorelation between the two or are hoping that we do not..

For example= The 2009 estimated harvest of 108,330 bucks was based on 41,251 harvest report cards and a PGC estimated reporting rate of 38.08%. A ONE PERCENT reduction in the PGC estimated reporting rate would have ADDED 2,920 bucks to the estimated harvest or 2.7%. Most people would consider that a considerable change.

DARS...

I already explain my season several times....

Just like some guy have self-restricitons on what buck they will shoot..
I have self-restrictions on what deer I will shoot..


#1... never shoot at a running deer
#2... never shoot a deer while it is bedded down...


If I was worried about killing a deer as fast as I could so I would not have a lot of hours in the woods, all I would have to do is change those restrictions... or NEVER pass on a deer.. shoot the first legal one you see.... not gonna happen...

Once again we see you patting yourself on the back for the number of bucks you have killed, and trying to impress us with that and that you think that makes you better than others ... but we also just read you do travel alot to do that , have the time, and money to do that .. many of us are not so LUCKY... one thing I do not see is where you do all this killing.. my guess is it is NOT alot of public land open to everyone and anyone .. we see you are a preserve hunter when it comes to upland birds though.. ?? Ever harvest at deer at one of those ???

Missing has a tendency to prolong one's season also...

I'm pondering this now ===



Back in 1986 I came up "to Camp" from the burg to deer hunt... the weather was not very good and so I sat on the back porch at the time... and after a couple hours a very respectable 7 point came walking along on the game lands about 70 yards away and stopped to look at me sitting there... seconds later he was laying dead a hundred yards away...

now do I claim it was a private land or public land kill ???

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout



DARS...

I already explain my season several times....

Just like some guy have self-restricitons on what buck they will shoot..
I have self-restrictions on what deer I will shoot..


#1... never shoot at a running deer
#2... never shoot a deer while it is bedded down...


If I was worried about killing a deer as fast as I could so I would not have a lot of hours in the woods, all I would have to do is change those restrictions... or NEVER pass on a deer.. shoot the first legal one you see.... not gonna happen...

Once again we see you patting yourself on the back for the number of bucks you have killed, and trying to impress us with that and that you think that makes you better than others ... but we also just read you do travel alot to do that , have the time, and money to do that .. many of us are not so LUCKY... one thing I do not see is where you do all this killing.. my guess is it is NOT alot of public land open to everyone and anyone .. we see you are a preserve hunter when it comes to upland birds though.. ?? Ever harvest at deer at one of those ???

 
You are so defensive you miss the point like it was a deer at 10 yards and you had a crossbow.
 
I'm not trying to impress anyone.  I do not think I am any better than anyone.  I am trying to put forth an alternative view to those that may not have had the opportunity to experience "lots" of deer and what that really means with regard to harvest.
 
I do get to travel some, rarely for hunting though.  As for time, I have no more time than anyone else, I just choose to use it wisely, where I have the most chance for success.
 
I do hunt pheasants at more than one preserve.  Why? because I have a lot of time, effort and money invested in my dogs and two be able to hunt them for, based on time and the chance of success with the number of birds the PGC stocks, 3 half days per year would be a total waste.  To get my return on investment, I have to go where the birds are.  It would be kind of like owning a Fararri and only driving it to the end of the drive way 3 times per year.  In addition, I run these dogs in competition, they need to practice somewhere.
 
And no, i have never considered hunting for deer on a preserve.  I don't have antler envy, so it is not worth it to me.
 
As for you not trying to get a deer as fast as possible and wanting to spend so much time outoors, don't I recall post after post after post on how the hemlocks have been so good to you that you are normally home before noon?  One of those two can't be true.  Which is false?  Or did you just get these self restrictions since the hemlocks pooped out on you this year?
 
To answer you other questions -- no I do not pass on ANY legal deer that I can for certain kill.  
 
I also do not shoot at running deer. 
 
If i were able to shot a bedded deer, I certainly would consider that an achievement. 
 
 I do try to kill the first deer that I can because I beleive that time served only counts for prison and the military. 
 
I do hunt on private ground, but anyone can access it without permission and many do, so it might as well be public.  The only difference is it isn't on a PGC website or map.

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout



270 wrote ==

was that a "SAFETY ZONE" VIOLATION?????????

If you would take some time to read/learn the game code rather than insist on attacks at me you would know that it is not any violation of any game code as long as I have the required flo orange on ....

what an axe !!!



Dars wrote =

I do hunt on private ground, but anyone can access it without permission

that is TOTALLY WRONG ==== and illegal ===== no one can hunt on private property in the state of Pennsylvania without the permission of the owner !!!! That is a perfect example of why we have such a problem with trespassing in this state... .. posting a statement like that is just ridiculous....

 
Okay, here let me rewrite it so it meets the Doc sniff test.
 
It is private ground.  The owner, however, lets anyone hunt on it, even if they do not have written permission from him.  In fact, he does not care if anyone even asks for permission and welcomes all.
 
Is that better?
 
You wonder why people jump on you. 
 
What I wrote in the first place was very clear in its intent -- the owner doesn't care so it might as well be public ground.  There is not super secret society or handshake needed to hunt there as your post implied and you darn well know it.  You might not have very good math skills, but your reading comprehension, when not clouded by anger because you have once again been proven wrong, is at least high enough to know what was meant. 
 
But you had to come up with somethng wrong with what was written, even if i t was completely off the intent, so that you could deflect the argument because it disproved your post.
 
Care to answer the questions in the post?

to answer Dars question...

As for you not trying to get a deer as fast as possible and wanting to spend so much time outoors, don't I recall post after post after post on how the hemlocks have been so good to you that you are normally home before noon? One of those two can't be true. Which is false? Or did you just get these self restrictions since the hemlocks pooped out on you this year?

When I head out the door, like most hunters, My goal is to hopefully harvest a deer that trip...
My hunt usually last about 3-4 hours... and for many years that was the case on opening day... the fact that I have a couple spots that usually allow me to harvest a deer within that time is just a result of years of living and/or hunting the area where I live/hunt for 50 years...


I do not get too upset if my "plan" does not work.. I enjoy the time in the woods be it 3 hours or 8 hours... In December the less time in the woods the better though...

This past season my hot spots were COLD.. so I walked alot more than I have in 10 years and even hunted some new areas... as a result I saw more bucks and antlerless that I usually do in my hemlock grove...

I enjoyed all the trips.. and to me it was successful season even if it took longer, more trips, and only one deer....

I just am not into the I have to have a buck to be successful mentality


that's my second attempt at an answer and hope that one will satisfy you === but somehow I doubt it will .....

Is that "Bovine Fertilizer"

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

to answer Dars question...

As for you not trying to get a deer as fast as possible and wanting to spend so much time outoors, don't I recall post after post after post on how the hemlocks have been so good to you that you are normally home before noon? One of those two can't be true. Which is false? Or did you just get these self restrictions since the hemlocks pooped out on you this year?

When I head out the door, like most hunters, My goal is to hopefully harvest a deer that trip...
My hunt usually last about 3-4 hours... and for many years that was the case on opening day... the fact that I have a couple spots that usually allow me to harvest a deer within that time is just a result of years of living and/or hunting the area where I live/hunt for 50 years...


I do not get too upset if my "plan" does not work.. I enjoy the time in the woods be it 3 hours or 8 hours... In December the less time in the woods the better though...

This past season my hot spots were COLD.. so I walked alot more than I have in 10 years and even hunted some new areas... as a result I saw more bucks and antlerless that I usually do in my hemlock grove...

I enjoyed all the trips.. and to me it was successful season even if it took longer, more trips, and only one deer....

I just am not into the I have to have a buck to be successful mentality


that's my second attempt at an answer and hope that one will satisfy you === but somehow I doubt it will .....

 
It satisfies me.
 
You try to kill a deer everytime out.  "My goal is to hopefully harvest a deer that trip."  That is no differnet than what I said I do.
 
You try to do it as quickly as possible.  "In December the less time in the woods the better."  Again, no different than what I said I do.
 
You do not get upset when your plan does not work.  "I enjoy the time I the woods."  We are somewhat similar, but I do get upset when my plan does not work due to rule changes that were based on a plan that had no goals and no accountability -- in other words enacted for no documentable purpose.  And I express my displeasure with being sold a bill of goods rather than swallow the PGC BS pie in one bite.  On that we differ.
 
This past season your spot went COLD.  Mine has gone cold ever since the change (except for Year 1), so I too have walked alot more and hunted new areas.  So again, we are similar. I have not seen more bucks.  If you have, you haven't harvested any of them.  Why?  Did you actually see them while hunting?  Or did you see them spotting, driving the truck, out of season, etc.?
 
You do not have to harvest a buck to be happy.  "I am not into the I have to have a buck to be successful mentaility."  Neither do I.  If I did, I would be a pretty unhappy camper for 9 of the 10 years of AR/HR.  So, once again we are simialr.  Where the differnce comes in is while I was successful in harvesting bucks in a consistent manner and the introduction of AR/HR has completely changed that, you never were successful at harvesting bucks, so in essence nothing has changed for you at all.  In your case it is like saying "I started with nothing and I have most of it left" or "Nothing from nothing is nothing" or "When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose."  Well, there were some of us, aprroximately 50,000 to 70,000 per season that had something to lose.
 
You see, we have more similarities than differences.
 
So, yeah, I'm satisfied.
 
You want to kill a deer every trip, but if that doesn't happen, its okay.
 
You want to be out of the woods as qucikly as possible, but if that doesn't happen, its okay.
 
You had put in 20X more effort to kill a deer this year, but that's okay.
 
You are seeing more bucks however you didn't harvest one, but that's okay.
 
You don't need to harvest a buck to be happy because you don't anywa and it doesn't matter to you that 50,000 to 70,000 other hunters are now reduced to your level of success, but that's okay.
 
Yeah, I'm satisfied that either you are extremely hypocritical or guilble and accepting of whatever happens because the PGC told you that's okay while I am at least being honest, with myself and those that read what I write, that I do not like what happened and that its not okay.
 
 

the 5 years before AR/HR.. I harvested 4 bucks and 5 does.. that's pretty successful in my book !!!

Boy,did you leave yourself wide open with that post Another senior moment perhaps. Have at him Dars and now semi retired

ORIGINAL: S-10

the 5 years before AR/HR.. I harvested 4 bucks and 5 does.. that's pretty successful in my book !!!

Boy,did you leave yourself wide open with that post Another senior moment perhaps. Have at him Dars and now semi retired

 
Nope, I'm cool with that.
 
Doc and I just have a different level of our respective definitions of success.  Unfortunately for me, a higher level of success was severly impacted by the changes and his lower level, luckily for him, has not.

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

Our biggest difference is a deer is a deer to me.. I could care less if it had antlers...and never measured my success based on what sex the deer I harvested was ..... or how big it was

you never were successful at harvesting bucks, so in essence nothing has changed for you at all.

I may not have been successful at harvesting bucks (in your opinion) before AR/HR, but that depends on what you feel is successful, obviously a buck every few years is NOT being successful in your eyes, but I know plenty that wish that had that ...as for since HR/AR just like you my success has not been good at all.. but I know MANY who share that ....


as I got older it no longer mattered what sex the deer was.. venison was/is venison... PLUS the areas I found the easiest for me to access and "drag" from, if successful, were not and are not areas that the bucks seemed to frequent.. but that's okay... so I found pleasure in just running up 25+ straight years of harvesting a deer..... if memory serves me right I have only harvested 2 bucks since 1960 in "my hemlocks" but spend 80% of my hunting time sitting in them anyhow...
and this is the first year in I don't know how many I did not shoot a deer in them .... however the one I did shoot this year was only about 200 yards away from them


It's just we have a different definition of a successful deer hunter and that's okay too... and I try to allow another person his own opinions of just what that is.... and would never measure another deer hunter as good, fair, or poor on his success or preferences in choice of harvesting a legal deer.......



and as for the DMP you think it stinks and I see the reason why it was implemented... and have learned to live with it.. no one likes change --- but some accept it and just MOVE ON ....


and that makes us VERY different...

so we can continue to be different....and that's OKAY !!!


EDIT... after putting in time at the plant I worked at (10 year s ---seniority, union shop) and being able to pick and choose vacation time and days off === the 5 years before AR/HR.. I harvested 4 bucks and 5 does.. and in the 8 years I hunted after ar/hr... 12 deer harvested.. that's pretty successful in my book !!!

 
A deer is a deer to me as well.  I don't know how many times I wrote on this board that to me antlers don't make the deer, they make the deer legal.
 
The only reason I like to shoot a buck is simple -- I like to harvest two deer per year -- 1) because it takes two deer to supply my 86-year-old Dad with enough gorund venison for the year and still permit my wife and I to have some fillet, plus make some specialty stuff like jerky, etc. and 2) too much gear prep goes into deer hunting to only shoot one.  The reason I for shooting a buck is that if I shoot two does to fulfill the above listed items, I feel that I am aiding and abedding the PGC in their HR scheme.

To my knowledge as long as you have permission you can hunt with in a safety zone...

so you can hunt from most anybody's porch with permissson...