ORIGINAL: MackJ

It's very encouraging to see the discussion focusing on the real issue, which is angler behavior.  I would bet that no private land open to public use for fishing was ever closed down because of well-behaved anglers-- no matter how many may have lined the creek. 

No but I have seen it time and time again... People abuse this privilage that the landowner gives us fishermen. Like trash is a big one and parkingin people fields and walking through places they shouldn't be...
I always have to park up trash along the streams... Just a dang shame some fishermen dont have respect for the landowner and Gods green earth!

As for behavior, I will have to say, there are people out there who do not give a hoot or a holler about anyone other than themselves and feel the rules do not apply to them. 
 
We recently instituted a smoking ban where I work.  There is no smoking anywhere on the property, even the parking lots.  Since the ban has been effect the numbers of people smoking has decreased, but there a few that refuse to change their behavior even under the threat of a $250 fine.  I just said something to a person yesterday that smoking was not permitted on the property and they basically told me they did not care and would continue to smoke regardless of what the rules were.  As far they were concerned, the rules did not apply to them.  On top of that they put their cigarette out and threw the butt on the ground, adding to the problem by littering, which also comes with a fine.
 
As long as people like that exist, there are going to be problems.  Honestly, I don't know what to do about it.  The behavior is only a manifestation of a deeper selfish, self serving attitude that has no respect for any authority or for anyone else for that matter.  It is that attitude that needs adjusting.
 

Being new at trib fishing for steelhead, I have a few questions about access after reading the above posts.  Are the angler maps fairly accurate?  I'm trying to figure out where and where I can't fish.  Just because the streams are private it doesn't mean we can't fish in them correct?  Only where you see a posted sign is where you have to stop or turn around?  Is it proper etiquette to walk along the stream or in the stream?  I don't want to ruin anything for anyone.  I feel overwhelmed about the rules about getting into and out of the streams without being yelled at or the authorities called on me.  When someone says 4 mile is owned by the fish club but access by the golf club does that mean you park and walk in from the golf club or fish club?  Staying with that same post does that mean 7 mile is off limits for fishing?  Upper 20 mile is comlpletely private so no fishing there either?  If the moderators want to move this to a separate thread please do.  Not meaning to hijack it.  I just don't want to be the cause of ruining fishing the guys that have been doing it all their lives in Erie.  Any useful feedback willbe appreciated before my first trip.
 
Thanks,
 
Pitt

Any land on the tributaries that is not public land cannot be crossed without landowner permission.  Since the creeks are probably not navigable, standing in the stream doesn't put you on public land.  The owner of the adjacent land probably owns the streambed also.
 
Some private landowners do not object to people using their land.  You may find signs saying that anglers are welcome, maybe with a restriction like "Walk-In Only."  Also, some land is specifically posted against trespass or marked as Private Property.  Anywhere you encounter such a sign, you should not go.  If you can identify a residence or business that owns that land, nothing stops you from approaching them for permission at a reasonable time, but the chances of getting permission to use the land or creek where the owner has already posted it are probably slim to none.
 
The most difficult situation is land that is NOT posted in any way.  Some owners do not want you on their land even though they don't post.  Other who don't post may not care.  The best thing to do is to ask permission.  Again, knocking on a door at 600 AM is not a good idea, but if the hour is reasonable, there is nothing wrong with approaching a landowner for permission, the worst that will happen is they will say No.
 
Wherever you might fish, public or private land, you should conduct yourself so that you disturb the landowner as little as possible.  No excessive noise, no littering, etc.  If you are crossing their land with permission, walk well away from homes or buildings.  Don't use someone's yard as a bathroom, don't use foul language, etc.  Conduct yourself as you would want others to conduct yourself if you allowed your land to be used to access and fish the creek.
 
Finally, if you are confronted by a landowner about where you are walking or fishing, be polite, apologize if they say you aren't allowed there and then leave immediately.  Also, if you see a landowner who permits use of their land, say Hello, thank them for their generosity, ask them if they'd like a steelhead or if there is anything you can do to show your appreciation.
 
The truth is that many landowners don't mind anglers that conduct themselves respectfully and courteously and this is why they do not restrict access even though they have a right to do so.

Check the stream descriptions provided by Fishusa.  The exceptions,
not sure if they are up yet:
 
4 mile - park in lot past last bridge. Go across bridge, staying off grass,
make an immediate right after crossing bridge, walk down hill to the creek,
walk along creek to fish, stay off east banks.  Do not walk through golf
course property to get to the mouth.  Walk down creek.
 
7 mile - park in area provided - facing west, on Rt.5. Walk to creek,
stay off lawns, and yards.  Do not park on road going into camp,
in front of mailboxes, driveways, or on bridge. If there are two cars
parked, wouldn't even bother walking down.
 
12 mile - do not park on road below Rt. 5.  There are two lots. Above Rt.
5, park in small area on west side of Moorheadville Rd.
 
16 mile - lot at mouth, small lot on lake rd. - right turn just past Freeport.
small parking area above Rt. 5.
 
20 mile - park in lot on north side of Rt. 5, just below bridge if fishing
below Rt. 5.  Upper 20, park on road, or as directed in directions.
 
And for all, especially 4,7,12 don't urinate in public, or worse.
Don't litter, clean fish, leave guts. Especially on 4 mile, early in the season, while folks are still golfing.  20 mile has portajohns, 16 mile has an
actual restroom at mouth.
 
Any other questions feel free to pm me.

I don't mind, but it may ruin my reputation.  Maybe you should add some information also about parking.  Like,
 
Don't park your car anywhere where signs prohibit it.  Don't block anyone's driveway or any gates or access to land.  Don't park so as to create a hazard along the roadway. 

Mack,  After reading your last few posts (and several previous) it is clear that you certainly have a wealth of valuable knowledge and very good people skills (when you choose to utilize them).  Continue with these kinds of posts and you will definitely earn my respect (not that it means much, but it is better than my disdain... I guess).  Anyway,  great post.  Griffon

Mack, I'm sure it makes your day knowing you have the respect of
Griffon.

Thanks guys.  I'm a hunter mostly.  I know about property etiquette.  I was mostly concerned about stream etiquette and such.  I guess it's something you need to experience first hand in order to understand how close you are to residences and the amount of room there is to walk and park and such.  I am ready to explore just wanted to get my ducks in a row so to speak.

Pitt 

ORIGINAL: MackJ

It's very encouraging to see the discussion focusing on the real issue, which is angler behavior.  I would bet that no private land open to public use for fishing was ever closed down because of well-behaved anglers-- no matter how many may have lined the creek. 

Mack J
     The biggest problem that I see is the attitude of entitlement that some people have developed.   I actually had to run two clowns off my property twice before I called the cops and they still tried to sneak in by parking down the road (in my neighbors' corn field) and walking up.  These were the same ones who I caught with almost twice their limit on my land twice.  
      We landowners can't be there to patrol our land all the time and we trust the fishermen to respect our land. But again you would not believe what I have seen first hand.  Like when some fishermen left the gate between the cattle field and the corn field open and we had to go down and help herd cattle for about three hours.  It is amazing that a critter as big as a cow can almost disappear in a corn field, and how much damage they can do.

ORIGINAL: MackJ

Any land on the tributaries that is not public land cannot be crossed without landowner permission.  Since the creeks are probably not navigable, standing in the stream doesn't put you on public land.  The owner of the adjacent land probably owns the streambed also.

Some private landowners do not object to people using their land.  You may find signs saying that anglers are welcome, maybe with a restriction like "Walk-In Only."  Also, some land is specifically posted against trespass or marked as Private Property.  Anywhere you encounter such a sign, you should not go.  If you can identify a residence or business that owns that land, nothing stops you from approaching them for permission at a reasonable time, but the chances of getting permission to use the land or creek where the owner has already posted it are probably slim to none.

The most difficult situation is land that is NOT posted in any way.  Some owners do not want you on their land even though they don't post.  Other who don't post may not care.  The best thing to do is to ask permission.  Again, knocking on a door at 600 AM is not a good idea, but if the hour is reasonable, there is nothing wrong with approaching a landowner for permission, the worst that will happen is they will say No.

Wherever you might fish, public or private land, you should conduct yourself so that you disturb the landowner as little as possible.  No excessive noise, no littering, etc.  If you are crossing their land with permission, walk well away from homes or buildings.  Don't use someone's yard as a bathroom, don't use foul language, etc.  Conduct yourself as you would want others to conduct yourself if you allowed your land to be used to access and fish the creek.

Finally, if you are confronted by a landowner about where you are walking or fishing, be polite, apologize if they say you aren't allowed there and then leave immediately.  Also, if you see a landowner who permits use of their land, say Hello, thank them for their generosity, ask them if they'd like a steelhead or if there is anything you can do to show your appreciation.

The truth is that many landowners don't mind anglers that conduct themselves respectfully and courteously and this is why they do not restrict access even though they have a right to do so.

Thanks Mack
 Excellent post

Just a few points/thoughts for you to consider.

It's impossible to separate the loud mouthed, obnoxious goobers  from the decent folks on a public forum
You'll find that most of us who are tight lipped about sharing locations and where abouts on a public forum, are quite free with  info to many while "on" the creeks.

as far as behavior, I'll echo what Bugs said.
It's not just the morons, the shear volume of us over the last 7 years has had an  impact.
Many homes are very close to the creeks at some  spots.
15 years ago they may have seen only a handful of anglers through the week and a couple dozen or so on the weekends.
It's not like that anymore, we've become huge impact.
And even when we're as quite as we can be, that the home owner would never hear us, the dogs have big ears.
I'm sure many a home owners hear the pooch howling at 6am Sunday morning


..L.T.A.