3wt vs 5 wt fly rod

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nut
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2008/12/12 12:28:25 (permalink)

3wt vs 5 wt fly rod

i have a 9ft 5wt flyrod and was considering a 3 wt. my question is how much of a difference is there between the two.the 3wt rod would be 7 1/2 ft. i want to use this for fishing for natives in a stream covered in mountain laurel.

the early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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    Cold
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 12:41:14 (permalink)
    I'll be watching this one intently as well, as I'd like to fish little water next spring & summer, and am considering the fly equivalent of my preferred spinning setup: ultralight!  
    #2
    Slate_Drake_9
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 16:02:06 (permalink)
    Almost as drastic (depending on action of the rod) as the difference between a .222 and .30-06.
     
    It sounds like you are looking for a rod to give you a better feeling fight for smaller fish than you're 5 weight and line weight is only a small part of that.  If you are looking for a better feeling fight, go with a slower action rod. 
     
    Shorter rods are easier to cast in tight quarters that you'll usually find brookies in, but again, line weight really won't have a lot to do with that, if anything at all.  Then it's about rod length AND action.  For this, different folks like different rod actions, but if you can cast well, than it becomes about preference instead of necessity.
     
    Line weight will have the most importance in what types of flies you are going to cast, but with the difference between 5 and 3 weights (assuming you can cast well) there is not much difference in what you can throw, same with wind and distance (for the most part).

    Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

    Slate Drake
    #3
    anchke
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 17:20:55 (permalink)
    Consider picking up a shorter #5 rod, and then you'll have your small stream outfit without having to buy a new line and reel.
     
    Check Orvis 7'9" Clearwater #5 slow action at $159. At least it will give you an diea what's out there.
     
    Or, you could buy a #4 rod, use the #5 line on it and have a slower action set up. (Just a thought -- not trying to reignite the overlining thread:-))
     
     
    #4
    Slate_Drake_9
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 17:52:24 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: anchke

    Check Orvis 7'9" Clearwater #5 slow action at $159. At least it will give you an diea what's out there.


     
    Not to argue, but Orivs hasn't made a slow rod for several years now.  If you want a slow Orvis rod, look for a first series superfine with the unsanded blank. 
     
    If you really want a truly slow rod, your best bet will be fiberglass or one of many available tapers in bamboo.  Slow graphite is difficult to come by these days on the new rod market.  McFarland supposedly makes a slow graphite, but I haven't played with one.  His glass rods are nice though.
     
    The suggestion about overlining a rod will do the same thing for you if you can't find a true slow action rod.

    Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

    Slate Drake
    #5
    strandman220
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 20:19:47 (permalink)
    Nut.. I would stay away from any slow action rod. The loop is going to open up making casting under anything in tight brush harder. And a tight loop is the name of the game in tight corners.  Not a fan of fast action rods, but in small brooks they are a must.
     
    Also, I agree on a rod from 6 to 7 1/2 ft. But once again a 3 wt will not have the punch you need. A 5 or 6 wt at 7ft 6" would be ideal.
     
    Its like fishing in a tunnel the heavy line loads at shorter distances you do not have room to false cast. The lighter the line the longer the cast must be to feel the casting stroke. And load the rod.
     
    #6
    2Bonthewater
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 20:41:57 (permalink)
    I fish a 6 foot 6 inch 3 wt GL3...........on SE PA streams........most are small in size.........I have fished for stocked trout with this rod and had a blast (--not forgetting to mention all the Class A waters that I have had fun fishing while using this rod---)...........landing many fish that were 20 plus inches...........most on special regulation waters after they have been stocked..................................I would feel comfortable using this rod on any but the largest waters.............totally different than my 9 foot Fly Logic FLO+ 5wt..............and different than my Scierra Ferox 8 foot 6 inch 4 wt...............I have fished the Little Schuylkill River, French Creek, Manatawny Creek, even Fishing Creek near Benton with the 3 wt................it is a 3 wt and has it's limits.......but it sure is fun to cast and a blast to catch fish with..........even the large ones............the GL3 has plenty of backbone to land the big ones quickly.............I can throw beadheads and small split shots with the rod without having a problem.............I did own a 7 foot 4 wt Cortland fly rod.............it was crap........I fished it on Penns Creek during the Green Drake hatch and was attempting to make some super casts--I felt as if the rod was going to explode............I surely don't get that feeling with my tiny GL3..............I really like fishing the rod when the bigger gills are in close to shore in the spring........it throws poppers with no problems............I like my 6'6" 3 wt........and on SE PA trout streams........it is sometimes all you would need.........barring high water...........
     
    can't really compare a 5 wt to a 3wt..............two totally different animals
     

    www.2bonthewater.com
    #7
    thedrake
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 21:23:51 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: strandman220

    Nut.. I would stay away from any slow action rod. The loop is going to open up making casting under anything in tight brush harder. And a tight loop is the name of the game in tight corners.  Not a fan of fast action rods, but in small brooks they are a must.

    Also, I agree on a rod from 6 to 7 1/2 ft. But once again a 3 wt will not have the punch you need. A 5 or 6 wt at 7ft 6" would be ideal.

    Its like fishing in a tunnel the heavy line loads at shorter distances you do not have room to false cast. The lighter the line the longer the cast must be to feel the casting stroke. And load the rod.


     
    I've gotta disagree. If someone needs a fast action rod to cast tight loops they need casting lessons.
     
    Slow or fast, it's the caster that determines the size of the loop not the rod. A fast rod is not better than a slow one on a small stream. My favorite brookie rod is a diamondback diamondglass 7' 3wt. It's very soft, but in the hands of a good caster will still shoot 50-60 feet of line easily and will cast tight loops through steamside obstacles.
     
    A 3 or 4 weight will have all the punch you need for any native brookie stream in PA. A 6 weight fast action rod would be overkill and a waste of money. Your hooksets would resemble backcasts, but with a tiny native brookie on the end of the line flying through the air.
     
    IMO you can't go wrong with a 7' 3 weight for natives in small streams.
    #8
    thedrake
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 21:33:20 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Slate_Drake_9

    ORIGINAL: anchke

    Check Orvis 7'9" Clearwater #5 slow action at $159. At least it will give you an diea what's out there.



    Not to argue, but Orivs hasn't made a slow rod for several years now.  If you want a slow Orvis rod, look for a first series superfine with the unsanded blank. 

    If you really want a truly slow rod, your best bet will be fiberglass or one of many available tapers in bamboo.  Slow graphite is difficult to come by these days on the new rod market.  McFarland supposedly makes a slow graphite, but I haven't played with one.  His glass rods are nice though.

    The suggestion about overlining a rod will do the same thing for you if you can't find a true slow action rod.

     
    I agree, Orvis hasnt made a slow rod in a while. The older superfines are sweet rods, the new ones arent so great.
     
    There are some slower graphite rods like the RL Winston WT, which in a 7' 3wt is a great brookie rod.
     
    Fiberglass is a good option. Like I said earlier my favorite is the Diamondback Diamondglass 7' 3wt. Steffenn Bros. make nice glass rods as well. Bamboo is a good option as well, but for a good one you may be spending lots of dough.
     
     
     
     
    #9
    strandman220
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 21:41:19 (permalink)
    60 ft cast sure. No problem. You sound like a very good caster. Can you lay your leader under a hemlock branch 18 inches above the water at 12 ft??
    #10
    Cold
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 21:56:08 (permalink)
    Strandman, by your rationale, there is no reason to ever have a rod less than a 5 wt.  This may be how you feel, but apparently most of the FF community disagrees.
    #11
    Slate_Drake_9
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 22:45:22 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: strandman220

    60 ft cast sure. No problem. You sound like a very good caster. Can you lay your leader under a hemlock branch 18 inches above the water at 12 ft??

     
    60 foot casts with a slow rod...absolutely.
     
    Can I lay my leader under a hemlock branch 18 inches above the water at 12 ft?  Yes.  If you can't, you should get some casting lessons.  This is not a challenge, especially at such a short distance.  Doing it at 60 feet EVERY time would be a challenge, but not impossible at all.
     
    Drake said it all.  Rod action has absolutely nothing to do with loop size, casting ability does. 
     
    Actually, a slower action rod will load with much less line out, making it easier for most casters to cast in tight quarters that are found on brookie streams. 

    Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

    Slate Drake
    #12
    Slate_Drake_9
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 22:50:42 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: thedrake

    The older superfines are sweet rods, the new ones arent so great.


     
    I was so disappointed when they changed the superfines from slow to medium and medium fast actions.  If you have only casted the new superfines, you would never understand how great of a line of rods they were.  So sad. :-(

    Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

    Slate Drake
    #13
    strandman220
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 22:54:13 (permalink)
    Hi, Cold.. Nothing could be farther from the truth of that statement. I own a 1 wt, also a 2 wt. I would never fish them in close tight brush. They are both great rods on open water. I believe the small diameter line helps with a longer drag free drift. And fish feel great on them. My best on the one weight was a 24" wild brown.
    The smaller line wt. makes them a **** to fish in close tight brush.

    Trust me. If you are ever fishing in a tube. You are better off with the fastest rod, and a heavy line. A 5 or 6 wt. The Drake sounds like he is a great caster. And I am sure he can get it done. But in the jungle you have to have the punch.
    Even though a nice native may be only around 8 inches. I dont need the 5 wt to land him. I need the 5 wt to punch a cast tru the hole of a lifesaver at 15 ft.
     
    Slate. The shorter the cast sometimes is the hardest.
    post edited by strandman220 - 2008/12/12 23:11:51
    #14
    Slate_Drake_9
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:11:54 (permalink)
    What models are your 1 and 2 weights?  I guessing they are fast actions and need to have a lot of line out to get them to load enough for you to throw a tight loop.
     
    I don't understand why the smaller line weights are making it difficult for you to cast in tight quarters if you are getting the rod to load properly.  My go to brookie rod for years was a 1 weight.  About 3-4 years ago I had a superslow 00 weight rod build for brookies and it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  It loads in close and makes the "big" 5 inchers feel like 5 pounders.

    Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

    Slate Drake
    #15
    Slate_Drake_9
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:15:35 (permalink)
    Slate. The shorter the cast sometimes is the hardest.

     
    Strandman,
     
    Come over to the slow side and you'll never look at flyfishing the same way again.  From what you have said, I'm assuming you have never really gotten your hands on a decent slow rod, maybe just some crappy ones that cast like wet noodles. 
     
    A good parabolic action is also a great casting tool in close and far out, but not everyone is comfortable casting them at first and give up too quickly to learn their nature.

    Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

    Slate Drake
    #16
    Skip16503
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:19:54 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Slate_Drake_9

    What models are your 1 and 2 weights?  I guessing they are fast actions and need to have a lot of line out to get them to load enough for you to throw a tight loop.

    I don't understand why the smaller line weights are making it difficult for you to cast in tight quarters if you are getting the rod to load properly.  My go to brookie rod for years was a 1 weight.  About 3-4 years ago I had a superslow 00 weight rod build for brookies and it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  It loads in close and makes the "big" 5 inchers feel like 5 pounders.
      I take it you had your 00 Built on a Sage Blank??  How do you like it?

     



    #17
    strandman220
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:21:31 (permalink)
    Hey Slate. Nice to see you share my love for small stream fishing. And a friendly debate.
    The original Orvis 1 WT. And the Sage TXL 2 wt. Love em both but not in the brush streams..
    Don//
    #18
    thedrake
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:25:26 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Slate_Drake_9

    ORIGINAL: thedrake

    The older superfines are sweet rods, the new ones arent so great.



    I was so disappointed when they changed the superfines from slow to medium and medium fast actions.  If you have only casted the new superfines, you would never understand how great of a line of rods they were.  So sad. :-(

     
    A couple years ago, the superfine IMO was orvis's only truly great trout rod. When they changed the tapers, the rods went downhill. Next, they'll be made in china as most of their reels now are.
     
    Now, the trend in rods is to make all the high end rods super fast as if they are superior in all ways. I guided a guy during the tricos this year who was fishing a new 8.5' 5wt z-axis. The rod was fun to cast, since it was a cannon, but when it came to setting the hook with 7x he lost more fish than he hooked, leaving a #24 trico in their mouths. He asked me why this was happening, and when I told him his rod was a little overkill for 7x tippet, he got pssed. He was just another guy that was duped by fly rod ads claiming that their latest rod can cast a 90ft line through the wind, yet protect ultra light tippet. You can't have both. In PA we often have to go down to 7x in order to fish the tiny tricos and midges, a fast rod just won't do it as well as a slower one. It's good that some rod companies realize the need to make higher end rods in all actions, rather than just fast action.
    #19
    Slate_Drake_9
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:25:39 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Skip16503

     I take it you had your 00 Built on a Sage Blank??  How do you like it?

     
    No way.  The Sage blank was way too fast.  Bamboo.

    Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

    Slate Drake
    #20
    Skip16503
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:28:00 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Slate_Drake_9

    ORIGINAL: Skip16503

    I take it you had your 00 Built on a Sage Blank??  How do you like it?


    No way.  The Sage blank was way too fast.  Bamboo.
      I see  I wondered where you found a slow 00  What taper ??

     



    #21
    Slate_Drake_9
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:28:38 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: strandman220

    Hey Slate. Nice to see you share my love for small stream fishing. And a friendly debate.
    The original Orvis 1 WT. And the Sage TXL 2 wt. Love em both but not in the brush streams..
    Don//

     
    Interesting.  The Orvis 1 wt you have was my go to small stream rod for years.  I loved how it loaded up close.  I always felt it was THE small stream rod, until I had a new one built.  Now Orvis's other 1 weight, the Silver Label, sucked @$$ compared to the superfine.

    Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

    Slate Drake
    #22
    thedrake
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:30:50 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Slate_Drake_9



    Strandman,

    Come over to the slow side and you'll never look at flyfishing the same way again.  From what you have said, I'm assuming you have never really gotten your hands on a decent slow rod, maybe just some crappy ones that cast like wet noodles. 

     
    It's a shame that some companies only make their high end rods in fast actions. The higher end moderate or slower rods like the winston WT, scott g2, diamondback classic trout, or the older superfines are a delight to cast, and can still fish light tippets well.
    #23
    Slate_Drake_9
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:31:30 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Skip16503

    ORIGINAL: Slate_Drake_9

    ORIGINAL: Skip16503

    I take it you had your 00 Built on a Sage Blank??  How do you like it?


    No way.  The Sage blank was way too fast.  Bamboo.
      I see  I wondered where you found a slow 00  What taper ??

     
    The builder did a custom job for me.  I told him how I wanted it to cast and feel and he did it.  I think he used "Taper DNA" or something similar to figure it out.  I basically told him I wanted the rod to load with 8-10 feet of line out and he did it.

    Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

    Slate Drake
    #24
    Skip16503
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:33:11 (permalink)
    I see......  Rod DNA Is a good tool ......    Usually a Builder will provide the buyer with a Taper and I assumed he did..  Thanks

     



    #25
    thedrake
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:34:31 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: strandman220

    60 ft cast sure. No problem. You sound like a very good caster. Can you lay your leader under a hemlock branch 18 inches above the water at 12 ft??

     
    I can make that cast. Not being cocky, but I could do it.....Sidearm with a tight loop.
    #26
    Slate_Drake_9
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:37:07 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: thedrake
    It's a shame that some companies only make their high end rods in fast actions. The higher end moderate or slower rods like the winston WT, scott g2, diamondback classic trout, or the older superfines are a delight to cast, and can still fish light tippets well.

     
    I can't agree more.  The last graphite rod I purchased was an old Orvis Performer (built in the late 70's).  9' 6 weight.  A touch faster than slow, but a delight to cast and fish.  I've landed 5 pound plus trout on 6x with it numerous times now without worry that I was going to break the tippet. 
     
    I feel that the Winston WT is too fast for me though, as are the g2's.  I haven't played with the diamondback classic as I have never really been happy with Cortland products, but maybe I'll try one out.

    Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

    Slate Drake
    #27
    thedrake
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:44:18 (permalink)
    Yeah, the g2 and the WT are more so moderate than slow, but they are about as slow as one can find in graphite.
    #28
    Skip16503
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:48:34 (permalink)
    There is a 6'6" 2 WT Blank in Graphite out there that has a Parobolic Action That feels Almost like Bamboo...I'm trying to get my hands on one  If I do I'll let you guys know how it feels

     



    #29
    Slate_Drake_9
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    RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod 2008/12/12 23:50:23 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: thedrake

    Yeah, the g2 and the WT are more so moderate than slow, but they are about as slow as one can find in graphite.

     
    You should check out McFarland rods.  I haven't cast his graphite rods yet (his glass rods are great), but the owner assured me he has some truely slow graphite rods and Eric Strope did the same in a different conversation some time ago.  I think they are called the Heritage collection or something like that. 

    Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

    Slate Drake
    #30
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