thedrake
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/12 23:50:31
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It's often funny to watch guys who have only ever fish faster rods try glass or cane, since glass and cane an emphasize all your casting flaws. I was in that boat years ago. Since I started fishing glass more often, my casting stroke is much more relaxed and I am more accurate fishing any rod than I was before.
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strandman220
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/12 23:53:13
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Very interesting thread. And a big wide gap between my favs and most others.
Here are my go to small stream rods.
Orvis small stream special 7ft 6" 5 wt
Fenwick World Class 7ft 6" 5 WT.
Fenwick Eagle 7ft 6" 6 WT
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Slate_Drake_9
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/12 23:58:09
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ORIGINAL: strandman220
Very interesting thread. And a big wide gap between my favs and most others.
Here are my go to small stream rods.
Orvis small stream special 7ft 6" 5 wt
Fenwick World Class 7ft 6" 5 WT.
Fenwick Eagle 7ft 6" 6 WT
Aren't the Fenwick's slow? I haven't fished one for probably 20 years, but the ones I had were all slow.
Fishing with bait is like swearing in church. Slate Drake
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Slate_Drake_9
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 00:02:42
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These are the McFarland Graphite Rods I was talking about, the Vintage series. This is on their website. (Not an advertisement by me as I don't know the guy or have anything to do with his business.) Attention soft rod addicts! Don't despair. We have your rod. The past few years have been troubled times for fans of soft rods. With changes by the big companies, your favorite soft rod has probably been either discontinued, changed to a faster action, or turned into a "cookie cutter" model with no options. Well, don't worry. Relax and take a look at the Vintage. We have taken up where others have left off. Our continued development of the soft rod has led to the Vintage; the lightest, smoothest, most sensitive graphite rod ever made. The Vintage has a beautifully soft, full flexing action and will throw perfectly formed, controlled loops at any fishing distance. The Vintage excels at pin-point accurate casts, delicate presentations, line mending, and tippet protection; all with an unmatched level of sensitivity. Combine these characteristics with the availability of light line weights in lengths up to 9'3" and you have the ultimate spring creek rod. Now add our unmatched presentation grade components, like engraved nickel silver reel seats with hand turned burled wood inserts and real agate stripping guides, and you have a rod that is beyond comparison. The Vintage may not win any distance casting competitions, but it will perform like no other rod in the most technical situations. Try a Vintage, it will put a smile back on your face. Listed below are our most popular models, but we will gladly build your Vintage in any length from 7'9" to 9'3" in 2, 3, 4, or 5 weight and in 2,3, or 4 pieces.
post edited by Slate_Drake_9 - 2008/12/13 00:04:05
Fishing with bait is like swearing in church. Slate Drake
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strandman220
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 00:17:57
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Yes these are older rods. An in todays standards they are not as fast as I supposed.
The World Class is on the fast side. And also the best rod Fenwick ever put out.
The Eagle 6 wt now would be a mid. And The Orvis Small Stream Special would be a superfine.
Not as fast as I use to be .. lol
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egg sac
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 01:01:55
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For wild brookie streams I have a 6' 3wt Scott rod. Darn little brookies feel like whales on it. Works great on bigger streams as well. Have personaly punched out 70 foot casts with it. Also have a 7'6" 4wt St Croix that is my main trout stream rod. Unless you are expecting very large trout all the time I personaly feel a 5wt or bigger is over kill for the average trout stream.Only trout stream I wished I had a bit more rod was Oil Creek at petrolium center. Need to get myself a 9' for thier.
SO MANY FISH SO LITTLE TIME. WHY ARE ALL THE PLACES I HAVE YET 2 FISH SO FAR AWAY?
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nut
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 04:34:14
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thanks for the info, it's not that i "need" another fishing rod, but, i've got some money burning a hole in my pocket. guess i'll go out and get the 3 wt rod. by the way my "go to" native brookie rod is an 24" ice fishing rod in 2# test. perfect for crawling through the mountain laurel.
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casts_by_fly
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 07:06:35
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For my money and preferences, I like a 2-3 wt rod overlined with a 4-5 wt line. I also prefer a moderate to moderate fast action, but really you're not using the rod's action while brookie fishing. Most of the time I'm only casting the leader. I like the heavier line though because sometimes I like to swing a streamer under a logjam and a 2 wt line doesn't do so well with a semi big (at least brookie big) streamer.
A for truly slow actioned graphite rods- there aren't many. I have a Forecast 8' 4 wt 3 pc that is pretty slow. I haven't measured it, but I'd say it is a slow action. My 10' 4 wt would be a slow moderate. It is another import blank that I picked up cheap. Otherwise I don't know of another truly slow blank available.
The Lamiglas fiberglas blanks are slow. The 8' 5 wt is a pretty nice rod for PA fishing. The 6'6" 2 wt is something else. Too light for me, but the guy I sold it to really like it. It is super slow and very light on power.
Thanks,
Rick
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dano
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 08:29:00
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I have fished the small cricks in the ANF quite often. It's like casting through an "obstacle course." The best fit for me is a short fiberglass rod capable of throwing a delicate tapered 4wt line inside of 15 ft. I used to fish a 6'3" bamboo stick based on a PHY Midge taper and the rod pretty much did everything I needed it to do. The only drawback fishing that rod in tight quarters was that nauseating worrisome feeling of possibly banging it against an overhanging tree, branch or boulder. I ended up settling on a 6ft Conolon glass rod rated HEH for a silk line, equivalent to a 5wt DT. It throws a nicely controlled 4wt line and puches out a 3wt equally well. Glass rods, at least for me, seem to be able to take a beating and that was the deciding factor for me. That rod has been banged around quite a bit and Idid finally break a half inch behind the tiptop when somehow the tip lodged under a piece of tree bark while walking and scouting the water along the crick. So now the rod is a tad shorter but still delicate. (I have a tendancy not to look where I'm walking when fishing  ) I do prefer at least a 4wt for the exact reason Strandman220 stated. "Its like fishing in a tunnel." You also need a little line weight to load a short line on the backcast an then shoot some line out. Another major advantage of bamboo (and to a lesser degree, glass) is that you can make a backcast straight behind and then change the angle of direction on the forward cast. Thin walled graphite just isn't capable for that type of casting. Glass gets my vote. 
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dano
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 09:39:26
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2Bonthewater
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 11:16:59
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My Fly Logic Ultra Fast rod is not fun to fish up close.............even with RIO Grand fly line, it will not load properly....if I am not on big water--I won't fish it--so it really barely gets used.........now mind you....if the need arises to blast some line to another county--this rod will do the job............Fly Logic is a company outwest and I think their rods are based on the larger western rivers..........I think my 5 wt was designed to be a drift rod that would handle a bowling ball sized float and some heavy nymphs...........this translates into a rod that is pretty much useless on the east coast..........too much up close and personal casting
has anyone tried the Beulah Switch rods in a 4/5 or a 5/6??? I own a winston 11 foot 7 wt switch that is awesome for steelies and handles salmon....... I also purchased a Beulah 9/10 wt switch rod which was awesome to fish and a rocket launcher while using Rio steelhead/salmon 10 wt fly line...........I used Beulah Elixer fly line on the winston and it was a rocket launcher.............with my horrible shoulders--left-- hemi-arthroplasty june 08 and right shoulder-- pretty much stitched and sewn back together with alot of loose bodies taken out in 1995-- I like the fact that with a switch rod I really don't have to backcast one bit...............just curious if anyone else has tried a switch rod for trout??? the Beulah's are 10.5 feet in length.........with most switch rods being 10-12 feet in length.............
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anchke
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 14:20:09
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Slate -- Dang! I unintentionally touched off another fast/slow action debate.
Couple years ago, the local Orvis shop was clearing out its Clearwater rods to make room for Clearwater II. I picked up a 8'6" #5 -- with 6.5 action -- for a ridiculously low price.
All I can vouch for is that the 6.5 has a slower action than, say, an Orvis tip action 10.0 rod. My personal preference is for slower action rods. I can throw a tight or an open loop with my 8' Fenwick fiberglass rod.
I found the past debate interesting and informative and a bit humbling. However, I still base my preference in rod action for how it feels in my hand and what it does astream. But I have no argument at all with anglers whose preferences differ from my own.
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Slate_Drake_9
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 15:00:04
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But I have no argument at all with anglers whose preferences differ from my own.
Same here. My argument starts when folks say that slow rod action keeps you from doing things, like casting a tight loop, long distances, etc. If you can cast well, it won't matter what tool you are using. Preference and enjoyment for individuals is a different ballgame. It's different for everyone. But in the end this type of thing happens when we cannot get out and fish, so we are stuck entertaining ourselves on the computer instead.
Fishing with bait is like swearing in church. Slate Drake
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bigfoot
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 15:36:48
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I have three 5wt 8' 6" rods. Two would be considered fast action and the other slow action. While fishing a small stream close to home last year that is stocked both by the fish commission and a local sportsman's club I decided a shorter rod would probably handle a little better along the brush and tree lined bank. Long cast's would not be needed. I bought a Sage 7' 3wt. Took it to that small stream the next morning and it wasn't long before I hooked up with the first trout of the day on a San Juan worm. Really enjoy useing that rod.
"Life's meaning has always eluded me and I guess it always will. But I love it just the same." Quote: E.B. White
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strandman220
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 16:44:23
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Hey Dano. THATS OLD YELLA.LOL.. I own the 6 1/2 ft 5 wt. It is a good rod when casting in the tightest of brush. I swung that baby into many of limbs. It can take a beating.
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strandman220
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 19:51:26
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What ever works use it. I have more slow action rods then fast. There are great casting rods, for the most part fast to mid. And there are great fishing rods, from slow to mid. The fast action rods are harder to cast for the beginner. Its like there is no feel.
I have the priv. of fishing with one of the best casters in P.A. On a small stream there isnt a doubt, when he is fishing a soft rod. I can see the loop open and the leader collapse. Not a bad thing. But he is an expert. He uses the soft rod for fun. With a mid to fast action his loop is about 12".
Guys,, I have watched this for ten years. Sometimes you learn more standing on the bank.
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Slate_Drake_9
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 20:08:27
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ORIGINAL: strandman220
I have the priv. of fishing with one of the best casters in P.A. On a small stream there isnt a doubt, when he is fishing a soft rod. I can see the loop open and the leader collapse. Not a bad thing. But he is an expert. He uses the soft rod for fun. With a mid to fast action his loop is about 12".
Guys,, I have watched this for ten years. Sometimes you learn more standing on the bank.
I really have to wonder about this. If he is an expert caster rod action will not matter in his ability to cast a tight loop.
Fishing with bait is like swearing in church. Slate Drake
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beerman
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 20:36:13
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changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes....nothing remains quite the same The Beerman ~ Greg
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rapala11 
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 21:22:22
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not hijacking this thread, but i love reading the flyfishing posts. it is like attending a flyfishing college for free. you guys are super for sharing and teaching. thanks.
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PeteM
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 21:41:05
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This is a very interesting discussion of styles. I'm with Slate Drake 9 on the ability arguement. I use 3 different rods, one St. Croix 7'6" 4 wt that is about med., a Pfleuger 9' 5wt that is a med/slow, and an H&H Tradition that is med/fast and can make any cast I need to with any one of those rods.
Not trying to overstate my skills, as this is my first full year fly fishing, but I spent what most people would consider an inordinate amount of time practicing, both on stream and in the yard.
Rods are fun and all, and different people like different things, but I'm of the opinion that the rod doesn't make the cast, the caster makes the cast. But for what it's worth, my go to rod is the 7'6 4 wt. with a dt. line. You can bang out a 40-50 ft roll cast and shoot a few feet of line into it if you have to, or drop a dry a few inches in front of a sipping trouts nose with that thing, no problem.
The closest I get to native brookies thusfar is the ghetto brookie(chub), but you can sense the take like nothing else, and the biggest trout so far has been a 22" rainbow which was landed prety firmly and with a whole lot of fight left in it.
Landing them by staying approximately perpendicular to them and using side pressure is probably fodder for another thread though. :)
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strandman220
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 22:09:14
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Slate. Sure he could tighten the loop. But he is fishing not thinking about it. Its just something that stands out clear when you are looking, not fishing.
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PeteM
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 22:51:53
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It could also be that he opens the loop and collapses the leader on purpose. If you want the line to land upstream of the fly or nymph at a time and in a place where you can't mend, then that is a good way to do it. Most curve casts and tricky presentations are exactly that. You can also kill the cast and whip in some mend mid-way through the forecast to accomplish something similar.
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rollcaster
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/13 23:35:50
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ORIGINAL: dano
Anyone ever try one of these?
$16.00 for a little 6'6" mountain beater.
http://www.troutlet.com/Eagle-Claw-Featherlight-Fly-Rods-P217.aspx
I bought one last year and used it alot in the small streams in my area. It worked great. It says 2-5wt I think. I used 5wt line on it last year but next year I will go with 4, I think that will work better. I started off fly fishing with a old fenwick and this rod reminds me of that rod. You can't beat the price.
post edited by rollcaster - 2008/12/13 23:36:25
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strandman220
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/14 01:42:53
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Pete. why would you ever want the line to end upstream of the cast??? I am talking small streams. Theres no room for mends or other trickery most of the time. Stacking a leader, reach mends ect, sure if you have the space. Most of the time is spent on just getting a fly on the water period. Maybe we should describe small stream fishing.
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Slate_Drake_9
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/14 09:53:30
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ORIGINAL: strandman220
Pete. why would you ever want the line to end upstream of the cast??? I am talking small streams. Theres no room for mends or other trickery most of the time. Stacking a leader, reach mends ect, sure if you have the space. Most of the time is spent on just getting a fly on the water period. Maybe we should describe small stream fishing.
Actually, most of my "trickery" comes on small streams where you have to cast around and over obstacles (logs, rocks, complex currents in smallish pocketwater, etc). These are the situations that curve (most times multicurve) casts are designed for. It happens even more when throwing flies under branches and undercut banks. Even when things look "normal" like a tailout to a small pool, these things are very helpful. In many small streams the gradient is usually pretty high, so the ripples at a tailout are going pretty quick, so a stacked leader approach is great. Reach mends, well, when using a 5-7 foot rod, how much reach do you really get anyway, especially on a narrow stream, but it does happen in a smaller form, maybe from the kneeling position. On bigger waters I still use these methods, but they aren't needed as often. When using these casts on bigger water it is almost always due to complex currents in a run rather than rocks and logs and such. Just my 2 cents.
Fishing with bait is like swearing in church. Slate Drake
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PeteM
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/14 10:55:46
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Exactly as Slate described. Heres a situation- I'm at a good sized creek that some of the guys in sw.PA are prety familliar with. The water is moving quite fast, there are large rocks and cliffed sides through-out. I'm standing facing up stream and there is a tight little eddy/pocket with a log jutting just slightly out from the cliff side bank, and I strongly suspect that there is a trout holding deep in that pocket. The problems are that this pocket is protected by an outcrop of rock that forms a slight fall and a chute, and a beech tree has reached way out into the stream, so there is no back cast. I need to get a nymph onto the other side of the chute so that it follows the far seam into the eddy and hopefully into the waiting fishes strike zone, but not have the line dragged away by the fast moving water that forms the aforementioned seam. Solution- Throw a roll cast off of the left shoulder with slack line about 5 feet above the chute, landing the nymph and leader just inside the pocket so that the seam takes it in to the pocket, with a heap of slack upstream and in the fast water. The leader and nymph drift in, the slack gives me about 3 seconds to fire another quick mend, and the trout had time to strike my nymph. The product was one of the nicest trout I've caught so far, from one of the trickiest casting challenges I've been confronted with. The look on my buddy Erics face when I pulled a fish out of that situation was just a bonus. Best five seconds I've had without a woman! You can get all kinds of casting variations and skills from these guys, some of the best in the world. http://www.sexyloops.com/carlos/index.shtml
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strandman220
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/15 20:17:31
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i want to use this for fishing for natives in a stream covered in mountain laurel.
Ok just a few more points and I will shut the hell up. Define a small stream. I think nut did right off the get go. Covered in laurel. There is no way you are going to punch a cast into this with an Orvis 1 wt.
In most cases you can forget allmost all your tricks. It comes down to a straight line cast shot out of a phone booth. The shortest distance from A to B. And just hoping you get your fly on the water. Even when you have to bow and arrow the s.o.b.
Dont get caught up in small fish low line weight. Ya if you have room its great fun. Yet on most of the best small streams you need the punch and tight loop only a heavier line wt. can deliver.
Thats why I think very highly of a mid to fast action rod. Loaded with a 5 or 6 wt. From 6 ft to 7 ft 6". Good luck finding one. Buy the time you get to a 5 or 6 wt in any catalog the rod is 8 1/2 to 9 ft.
Guys very small stream fishing. Is my passion. I hope I dont come off as a know it all. I dont.
I am just trying to lessen your frustration. And believe me small stream fishing can have you swearing in the wilds. Been ther down that. The more you do it. The more the stream seems to open up. Cast that seemed impossible now are made. You are right in the middle of it. And after a while you are a part of it.
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nut
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/16 06:07:13
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ORIGINAL: strandman220
i want to use this for fishing for natives in a stream covered in mountain laurel.
Ok just a few more points and I will shut the hell up. Define a small stream. I think nut did right off the get go. Covered in laurel. There is no way you are going to punch a cast into this with an Orvis 1 wt.
In most cases you can forget allmost all your tricks. It comes down to a straight line cast shot out of a phone booth. The shortest distance from A to B. And just hoping you get your fly on the water. Even when you have to bow and arrow the s.o.b.
Dont get caught up in small fish low line weight. Ya if you have room its great fun. Yet on most of the best small streams you need the punch and tight loop only a heavier line wt. can deliver.
Thats why I think very highly of a mid to fast action rod. Loaded with a 5 or 6 wt. From 6 ft to 7 ft 6". Good luck finding one. Buy the time you get to a 5 or 6 wt in any catalog the rod is 8 1/2 to 9 ft.
Guys very small stream fishing. Is my passion. I hope I dont come off as a know it all. I dont.
I am just trying to lessen your frustration. And believe me small stream fishing can have you swearing in the wilds. Been ther down that. The more you do it. The more the stream seems to open up. Cast that seemed impossible now are made. You are right in the middle of it. And after a while you are a part of it.
that's it in a nut shell, maybe 10 ft wide in the lower part, and 4-6 ft wide in the upper reaches below the resevour. 3/4 of the stream is pretty much uncastable, no room to make a decent backcast, trust me i've got them bushes looking like christmas trees, i mostly use a roolcast when i have enough line outor high stick it. like i said my go to rod is an ice fishing rod for this application.
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dano
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/16 17:49:54
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ORIGINAL: nut
that's it in a nut shell, maybe 10 ft wide in the lower part, and 4-6 ft wide in the upper reaches below the resevour. 3/4 of the stream is pretty much uncastable, no room to make a decent backcast, trust me i've got them bushes looking like christmas trees, i mostly use a roolcast when i have enough line outor high stick it. like i said my go to rod is an ice fishing rod for this application.
Ice fishing rod??????  That about describes the type of water I was thinking of. The only way I fish them is with a dry fly or beetle. (SPLAT) A dry and greased leader makes it a lot easier getting your fly back out of the water without hanging up on all the roots, grass, sticks and other obstacles that seem to always want to steal your fly.
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Skip16503
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RE: 3wt vs 5 wt fly rod
2008/12/16 19:55:03
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OK I've been kicking this Idea around for a couple of years .. I'm not nuts Well most of the time I'm thinking about a 4 foot 5 WT Full Flex for Mpuntain Streams What ya Think? Go ahead tell me I'm stupid I'm used to I've been married 26 years...........
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