eyesandgillz

DarDys
Okay. You’re right. The folders of deer photos I have for five years showing similar antlers, similar body structures, distinct markings (Dr. Baughman’s famous brook and brown trout studies used spots along the trout’s back to identify each individual fish),and similar facial features are just wrong, especially the ones that show the deer together.

I actually shot a deer in 1982 that when placed next to the rack of one my Dad shot within 300 yards in 1963 couldn’t possibly be related because I’m not a “professional wildlife expert,” even though my minor for my bachelors was animal bioscience with a concentration in genetics, (again, be cognizant of who you might be pontificating to, for you know not their background), even though it looks exactly the same right down to the short split on the G4 on the right side and the curved outward left brow tine. It was always joked that mine was as big as his (mine was 2.5 and his was probably 4.5 — but that’s so hard to tell on the hoof), but it got left bin the drier too long and shrunk — it is that similar.

The over 100 racks my Dad, brother and I collected within 1/2 mile that can be laid out into 4 distinct gene pools are wrong too. Doe genetics do come into play, but not for all features and only if they are dominant.

I work with a lot of academics that produce article after article and study after study and most, not all, but most are based on what they read, not did, of stuff other academics read, not did, of stuff other academics read that call for further studies, more than likely by reading and not doing.

A prime example is the academically well regarded study done by Dr. Rosenberry about the survival of bucks in PA with regard to conclusions that hunters don’t hunt hard enough or far enough from a road. It’s considered solid research.

Yet it is based on a cohort group of 5 total bucks. That’s right 5 bucks were used to represent the entire buck population, which is woefully inadequate. Then, if I recall correctly, it’s been a while since I read it, collar contact was lost on one, so the study sample got even smaller.

Finally, the bucks were collared in May before they even had sufficient antler growth to know if they would be legal or not.

But other studies and articles use this research as a given for their research.

But it is obvious that you are so well read that those of us who have seen it, done it, must be wrong. You know, the don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining crowd.

Best of luck with your area remaining productive. I sincerely hope it does.

Asked you before, post 'em up, pictures of 3.5+ yr old 6 points.  I know, I know....they are "lost."  
Anyways, not saying they don't exist but, a 3.5 yr old 6 point without brows is a legal deer....
 
Deer populations ebb and flow, hunter numbers are slowly, but steadily decreasing and not sure when we will see the bottom.  With less hunters overall and definitely less out in the woods during rifle, the approach to the season needs to change.  You need to treat it like archery season....esp. if you are in an area with very little pressure.
 
As far as letting the populations increase with less doe tags, I would wager against that big time.  With EHD and especially CWD becoming more prevalent and the DMA's expanding every year, the PGC will be wanting minimal deer densities in these areas in perpetuity to help limit its spread.  Not saying that is the correct approach but that is what it will most likely be.  CWD is here to stay....

BeenThereDoneThat.
Gary Alt used those antlers to "sell" his project.... nothing more, nothing less.

Now about that "age structure"? 😁 Why the need? Because Gary Alt says PA needs older deer?

It's heartbreaking, to watch the very folks (many my friends) who have contributed for all their lives, hanging up their guns. Hanging up their guns, not because they "can not" hunt but because they are prevented from hunting, by the very agency the older generation has supported for a lifetime.

Gene, I sure hope you are correct in thinking there shall come changes to ARs & also HRs. Hopefully those changes are to completely dispose of those regulations.

In closing, let me be perfectly clear(🤗).... late season archery is upon you, be safe good luck to all, while swinging your feet in the trees.

r3g3
Shoot all the doe- including button skippers-and then think there are gonna be more older bucks is a faulted recipe.

CAPTAIN HOOK
Do the ones that say that drink a lot ?

CAPTAIN HOOK
This is from my earlier post ...I was waiting on my friend to reply ....he did .

Deer aging ... Pa. deer


I have a friend that is very good at aging deer , he's done it for many years and has checked lots of deer teeth / jaws. I'd put him against any biologist when it comes to aging deer. 

His words ...." most bucks I've checked over the years were mostly 2.5 years old, once in awhile you get a 3 or 4 year old . The oldest buck I checked was a 5.5 year old."

dpms

DarDys
So, I dug into my trash bin and came up with some photos of 4-points from this year, a 1.5, a 2.5 and a 3.5. 
 
 
Keep in mind, these deer live 250 yards out my back door.  There were photos (couldn't find those in the trash bin because Im not taking the time to bother) since they had spots.

What are you basing those ages on? 

DarDys
The problem in my area is at the inception or slightly after AR, the oldest, most dominant buck sported a huge, no brow tine 4-point rack. Over the years since, thus recessive trait has proliferated to the level that more than 50% of the resident bucks physically seen or on camera, have this type of rack. The result is a preponderance of the gene pool that gets passed on includes these recessives.

The only way to remove it is to kill it. Currently, that can’t be done.