Lake Arthur

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Bdugg
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2011/12/26 16:55:46 (permalink)

Lake Arthur

Last year was a slow year for Lake Arthur according to some of my friends and myself. I heard they had a meeting about the spraying of the weeds with the state? Does anyone know about this meeting or what was decided? I know it was the muskie anglers that held the meeting, but it also hurt the bass as well.
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    crappiefisher
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/26 19:33:29 (permalink)
    Decline in Lake Arthur muskellunge fishing has anglers, state trolling for answers
    Sunday, October 09, 2011
    By John Hayes, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
    Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission
    Fisheries biologist aide Matt Gordon holds a 50-inch muskie during a 2011 survey of Lake Arthur.
    PORTERSVILLE -- The waters of Lake Arthur were calm Monday evening. But in a meeting room at Mount Zion Baptist Church, on the shoreline of Shannon Run Bay, a maelstrom of controversy swirled as anglers, the state Fish and Boat Commission and Moraine State Park management clashed over what's happening beneath the surface.

    The 3,225-acre Lake Arthur impoundment has long been considered one of Pennsylvania's premiere muskie lakes, stocked yearly by the state with 3,300 young muskies averaging 6 inches. Survival rates are low, but good forage, a stable weed mass for cover and catch-and-release practices resulted in higher than normal catch rates for what has been called the "fish of 10,000 casts."

    But in recent years, anglers have noticed a decline in catches. In a routine survey this summer, Fish and Boat biologists found lots of muskies at Lake Arthur, particularly big ones, but were startled to log a total absence of entire year classes of muskies, those from 26 to 32 inches.

    No doubt something is changing at Lake Arthur. The mystery grows as anglers and the agencies that maintain the lake spar over what's to blame for the missing muskies.

    At last week's meeting, members of the Moraine Muskie Association presented enterprising informal research they believe shows the impacts of aquatic herbicides used to control weed growth at the lake. Tim Wilson, the Fish and Boat biologist who manages the Lake Arthur fishery, shared research that confirmed some of the anglers' concerns but challenged their conclusions. Following the meeting, park manager Dan Bickel defended the use of herbicides to control the plants, and inferred possible linkage to Moraine's ongoing problems with municipal sewage processed by the park.

    Herbicides
    "We've noticed a sharp decline in muskie numbers in Lake Arthur. Probably four years ago it started," said Fombell muskie guide and Moraine Muskie member Howard Wagner. "We wanted to see the effects of herbicide use on places we knew had good weed beds, so we went from bay to bay. Portersville Bay, Bear Run, Osprey, under the Route 528 bridge, the five fingers including Muddy Creek Bay -- wherever we went, we found no weeds or poor weed growth."

    The group's main concern is the park's use of two aquatic herbicides (trade names Reward and Navigate) to clear the water for boaters. Group members presented photos of de-weeded areas and charts comparing muskie stocking rates and harvest reports. Some feared muskies were directly poisoned by herbicides; others were convinced the weed-control policy destroys habitat for forage fish.

    Since Moraine State Park opened in 1971, the state Department of Conservation and Natural Resources has used Reward and Navigate to clear weeds from the swimming beach, 10 boat launches, marinas and other areas.

    "We have to manage for multiple uses -- fishing, swimming, pontoon boats, sail boats, canoes and kayaks, hydrofoils," said Bickel. "We had a lot of complaints from the marina this year from people having trouble getting out of their slip spaces due to aquatic weed growth. . . . When we use it, we use the minimum amount of herbicide that we possibly can."

    Since 1971, DCNR has treated as many as 43 acres of Lake Arthur per year, at 1 gallon per acre, depending upon need. In 2004, a year with a high muskie population, no herbicides were used. But in another peak year, 2007, 39 acres were treated. In 2010, DCNR used herbicides on about 12 acres. This year control agents were used on nearly 23 acres of the lake.

    The herbicides used at Lake Arthur are common. Neither directly kills the plants -- they cling to plant surfaces and disrupt growth. Both are approved by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and used by some 40 states, other governmental bodies and private landowners. Both are used by DCNR throughout Pennsylvania. Fish and Boat does not use the herbicides in the wild, but employs far higher doses at its hatcheries.

    Sewage
    Like many parks in Pennsylvania's state park system, Moraine's sewage processing system takes in pre-processed sewage from a nearby municipality. At Moraine, outflow from Prospect Borough is processed in the park's system and released below the dam into Muddy Creek.

    Bickel said cement-encased sewage pipes cross the lake bottom at two places before entering the park's processing system, which is inspected monthly by park staff. But long-standing problems with the municipality's incoming sewage remain unresolved.

    "Faulty equipment in Prospect's system before it comes to us -- yes, that's an ongoing problem," said Bickel.

    Prospect Borough sewage officials did not immediately return calls from the Post-Gazette.

    It's unclear, however, how potential sewage releases might relate to Lake Arthur's muskie problem. PFBC biologist Wilson said if biological matter was leaching into the lake, it would be a problem for all fish, yet only the muskies are experiencing sharp losses of entire year classes. Biological waste would likely decrease water clarity, he said, which would in turn impact aquatic vegetation.

    Habitat
    For many years, Lake Arthur's forage fish, game fish and angling success rates were directly linked to the aquatic plant milfoil. An invasive species that choked out native growth, milfoil nevertheless provided perfect cover for little fish. Big fish lurked under and at the edges of weed beds waiting for a snack, giving anglers an easy casting or trolling target.

    Since about 2007, when muskie catch rates began to decline, a new invasive plant species has quickly spread through Lake Arthur. Hydrilla, sometimes called Esthwaite waterweed, entwines in thick beds on the bottom, crowding out the less dense milfoil.

    "It's too thick. The little fish can't use it to hide, and the big fish don't use it as a point of ambush," said Wilson. "Like other game fish, muskies are cannibalistic. Baby muskies need weeds to survive and without the good milfoil, they're more susceptible to predation from big muskies."

    In fact, Wilson said the 2004 and 2007 spikes in muskie population that anglers sorely miss could be responsible for the current absence of later year classes. He cited a Wisconsin study showing that in lakes with unusually large numbers of big muskies, little muskies were eaten at such levels as to cause the collapse of the entire muskie population.

    Wilson theorizes that the loss of some weed beds to herbicide is small potatoes compared to the sea change that rocked Lake Arthur with the arrival of hydrilla and subsequent demise of milfoil. The resulting muskie cannibalism, he speculated, may have caused the population changes experienced by anglers and detected in PFBC surveys.

    Wilson said he will recommend doubling the number of young muskies planted in the next state stocking, but it may take a while to get the muskies back on track.

    "Even with the hole in the population, it's still a pretty good muskie fishery now," he said. "The population is about the same as it was before those two really good years. The guys who adapt to the new conditions and change their gear and tactics will eventually come upon a formula that works."



    Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11282/1180530-358-0.stm?cmpid=sports.xml#ixzz1hgs89YO3
    #2
    Bdugg
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/27 12:45:46 (permalink)
    Thanks for the story, I wonder if any of this is hurting the bass fishing? I use to love going into porter cove for bass fishing. This year was not even close to previous year as far as size and numbers? Just wondering...
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    Wally Cat
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/27 13:40:50 (permalink)
    If most of the weeds are killed off the bigger fish will move to deeper water and change feeding habits. They are most likely still there but not in the shallow weeds where you generally fish for bass in the spring and summer. Lack of good weed cover will also cause a high mortality rate of fry of game fish due to the high predation by gills, crappie, etc.

    Enjoy Life, Be Happy, Go Fish - Often!

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    #4
    CATMAN610
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/27 14:55:23 (permalink)
    Shawnee Lake had a great muskie population too and look what has happened there, along with all the other fish. It all went down the shi**er as soon as the good weed growth was stopped.
    #5
    SevenMileShowcase
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/28 15:39:53 (permalink)
    One thing I can tell you is that this past year I logged a lot of hours from March to August at that lake. And the last thing it is, is dead or dying. We caught a good amount of muskeys, some killer cats and some nice stripers. I found some beautiful spots on the north shore and cant wait to get back out in spring.

    East side love is living on the west end
    #6
    Porktown
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/28 16:18:09 (permalink)
    No, that place is the Dead Sea, and everyone should stop fishing there (besides me)...

    I can't comment on musky, as I never target them and haven't caught any from there. The largemouth are everywhere though. I've caught them in less than 1' of water, and up to 30' deep, in tree branches, weeds, and seemingly no cover. Mostly catching them when I'm not targetting them. If there has been a decline in largemouth, then I can't imagine what a banner year is like. Although I wouldn't mind finding out...

    I can't wait for Spring too. Especially if this ice season is short. There are going to be some hungry fish out there!
    #7
    Accountant
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/28 16:47:42 (permalink)
    pork, do you usually fish from boat or shore for the largemouth @ lake arthur?
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    luvinbluegills
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/28 17:57:11 (permalink)
    I don't fish a boat often so speaking for near shore fishing, the weeds are a major key to finding the fish. There are some areas where a change in plant species makes the difference in finding the good fish.

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    B.HINES
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/28 18:19:21 (permalink)
    Whats the ice fishing like down there? Im a first year student at slippery rock and im really hoping to find a good place to fish near there.
    #10
    crappiefisher
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/28 19:29:37 (permalink)
    .
    post edited by crappiefisher - 2012/03/18 14:36:54
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    Porktown
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/29 08:59:23 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Accountant

    pork, do you usually fish from boat or shore for the largemouth @ lake arthur?


    Mostly boat. About half of the areas that I fish from the boat are accessible by wading though. Most largemouth that I catch are by catch from panfishing or wiper/walleye, which are two completely different approaches. Many times when panfishing, I end up with more largemouth, usually when I have a cooler planning to keep the panfish... I'm not much into keeping LM, although not bad eating, but so many tournements and CR guys enjoy them, almost all make it back (same with wipers). The wiper/walleye by catches are deeper water during the day, and are pretty much the only ones that wouldn't be accessible by wading, and very likely not the best approach to catching LM, just happen to be following that same school of bait fish that I am...

    Of course, if I'm not catching within a 1/2 hour on the boat, I am to the next spot, which helps. I think that is key to catching a bunch of them. Most seem to be caught within the first 10 or so casts in an area. If you don't get a bump by then, move to the next spot. Most bass boat guys seem to have their trolling motors on almost all day, unless they found a spot with a bunch holding. You are definitely at an advantage in a boat, with access to more spots. But if you keep your gear easily tansportable, you can work a good stretch of water pretty well by wading, and many spots without even getting in the water. Although it does take a while to navigate the woods from spot to spot in many areas... Regardless of boat or foot, you will usually find a spot that has a few holding, which usually keeps me holding. Don't get me wrong, I have spent plenty of full or half days getting skunked or 1-2 small fish. Conditions are key to almost all fish.
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    Accountant
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/29 14:26:17 (permalink)
    i guess thats the big issue with a big lake like arthur and the places that im used to fishing: the size.  i usually fish smaller waters (casselman r. slippery rock, etc. ) that are relatively easy to navigate by foot. i have never fished moraine, but i hiked around there a little bit a few weeks back around the pleasant valley cove/bay/whatever you wanna call it.  there is plenty of shoreline to get to, but it seems like it would be a real pain to cast/navigate around there during the summer when the brush is in full force. 
    #13
    Porktown
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/29 16:40:04 (permalink)
    Not much easier navigating around the lake with the sail boats and rentals in full force...

    Most of the shoreline is wadable. Be careful in the Muddy Creek arm, since it is full of sediment, that you think is solid ground. I've been up to my knees and have seen others further deep in mud. It can be dangerous, so scout with others in that part of the lake. The rest of the lake is pretty solid, and can wade around the brush, unless it drops off, but then you likely found a nice hole.

    It's definitely a lake that will reward you for time spent. The first few times, you will probably buy into the "Dead Sea" as many call it. If you commit yourself, and do some homework, buy some maps and do some scouting, you'll find some great fishing. Next thing you know, you will have a boat with a limited HP motor on it, bumping into me at the launch at 4AM...
    #14
    Grizz747
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/29 20:08:17 (permalink)
    Ice fishing is good. I graduated from the Rock in 83 and Ice fished regularly. First Ice great Bass, also good crappie at night.
    #15
    Bdugg
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/29 22:18:28 (permalink)
    Another forum mention an abundance of bait fish could be the problem at Lake Arthur. Saying that bass are getting all the food they need. I never said it was a dead sea! I only wondered why me and several of my friends did not have a good year up there. I'm going with the abundance of bait fish. This makes me feel better...
    #16
    BIGHEAD
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/30 05:26:17 (permalink)
    Was at McDaniel's launch area yesterday for a hike.Seen that somebody was out on a boat. He must of had a little fun getting threw the shore ice.
    #17
    SevenMileShowcase
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/30 15:56:42 (permalink)
    True, if you do wanna get the fish at arthur, netting the alewife are the way to go. Ive caught every species out there on them.
    Carp, musky pike large and small mouth bass I got a nice crappie two years ago on alewife. Its also a blast late at night messing with guys when you throw the net.
    It hits the water and you hear 5 guys go " man did you hear that striper, Hes gotta be a biggun" I really can not wait for next year.

    East side love is living on the west end
    #18
    bronzeback2
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2011/12/31 06:44:51 (permalink)
    Is this gonna be the Arthur thread for 2012, if so its gonna be a good one and maybe we'll set a record for posts and hits.
    #19
    anatikus
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2012/01/01 02:52:40 (permalink)
    lmao! yea, I had an arthur thread here that exploded last year....shared alot of great info and met some cool people. its true that some get discouraged fishn there....mostly because they dont realize arthurs prime fishing hours are different than most other lakes in the state. still think ice fishing and early spring are the best seasons.
    #20
    Bdugg
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2012/01/01 12:59:01 (permalink)
    If this turns out to be the longest thread, do I get moved up from New Angler? Im keeping my fingers crossed...
    #21
    anatikus
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2012/01/02 07:24:36 (permalink)
    naw....i think its the number of posts that up your 'new angler' status.

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    willi724
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2012/01/02 10:10:35 (permalink)
    does anybody out there use a cast net for alewifes during daylight hours at arthur. i know all about getting them at night but i never tried during the day. is it worth trying
    #23
    anatikus
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2012/01/02 11:43:34 (permalink)
    nope.. I do best at dusk.

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    SevenMileShowcase
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2012/01/03 04:33:16 (permalink)
    I've netted them at day, you gotta wait and seeing jumping up and down the shore but when you do you can pull out a good amount, but I rarely fish there at dark

    East side love is living on the west end
    #25
    mr.crappie
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2012/01/03 08:41:40 (permalink)
    What is the prize for the longest posts or most posts ? sam
    ORIGINAL: Bdugg

    If this turns out to be the longest thread, do I get moved up from New Angler? Im keeping my fingers crossed...

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    Porktown
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2012/01/03 09:35:22 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: willi724

    does anybody out there use a cast net for alewifes during daylight hours at arthur. i know all about getting them at night but i never tried during the day. is it worth trying


    If you have a boat, they will roam the open waters when they aren't in close spawning. Many times you can see them in schools of 50+ with their noses above water, although mostly suspending out of eye sight. Not sure exactly when this is that they skim the surface, I think before and after their spawning season, during daylight hours. The surface has to very smooth to even notice them. I've attempted to net them like this, with no success. Although, when I tried, there were only schools of 10-20. I'm pretty sure if you get into a larger school, you could get a handful. Larger net with heavier lead would likely work best. Only downside is, if there is a larger school, you are usually marking game fish under them. Tossing a net on top, not only scares away the alewifes, but a prime casting spot. Although wipers don't seem to be very skitish at night, from what I have read about them, they are easily spooked. If you happen to figure out a way to do it, let me know... I'd love to be able to drop some live alewifes under a school being harassed!

    Gizzard shad on the other hand can easily be caught during the day. I have had many days panfishing some brush, and noticed flopping around on the banks. We had the kids at the beach area (before the water was warm enough to swim) and gizzard shad in shallow. They are usually in the 6"-10" range. I think they need to be under 8" to keep, and under 6" to really be useful for bait. Although, I am sure there are some musky, channel cats or large wipers that would disagree... I've read that using as cut bait will work too, but have only had success in the rivers with this.
    #27
    Porktown
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2012/01/03 09:43:01 (permalink)
    Oh yeah, I've tried keeping alewives over night with no success either. They don't seem to stay well. I think the only way to keep them, is a huge, well airated round tub, kept at a favorable temp. Any sort of obstruction, they will burry their noses into and swim themselves to death. Even when netting at night, they rarely last beyond 2 hours, before needing to net some more. Many times, it is much more productive to cast a lure during that time netting, but if they just aren't hitting lures, but obviously there, a live alewife will usually get a fish.
    #28
    Jefff
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2012/01/03 10:16:44 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Porktown

    Oh yeah, I've tried keeping alewives over night with no success either. They don't seem to stay well. I think the only way to keep them, is a huge, well airated round tub, kept at a favorable temp. Any sort of obstruction, they will burry their noses into and swim themselves to death. Even when netting at night, they rarely last beyond 2 hours, before needing to net some more. Many times, it is much more productive to cast a lure during that time netting, but if they just aren't hitting lures, but obviously there, a live alewife will usually get a fish.


    I hear ya on trying to keep the alewives alive. I starting putting a cap full of hydrogen peroxide in my 5gal aerated bait bucket (with shiners, fatheads, and bluegills. didn't get any alewives last year to try it with) and it really helped keep them extra lively for a few days. The last alewives i had in a rectangular cooler and they ran into the walls until the made their own heads bleed

    Practice CPR: Catch, Photo, Release 
    #29
    SevenMileShowcase
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    RE: Lake Arthur 2012/01/04 00:09:03 (permalink)
    Ha they are extremely horny

    East side love is living on the west end
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