Musky makes a GREAT point....


that is part of the reason I have not been able to understand why those complaining about a lack of deer now would push for Sunday hunting... Sunday hunting would increase the harvest even more unless the seasons were shortened... as for "doe tags" sure they could reduce the total number available but that too does not seem like something I could support for my fellow hunters... less tags woulds mean more folks who enjoy getting and using a "doe tag" would not get one.. so
Sunday deer hunting, while allowing a some an extra day to hunt, would cause others to loose an opportunity to hunt.

Then throw in the added pressure on SGLs and add those properties that will get posted..

all means less opportunity for many hunters.. I just don't see the point...



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Our commissioner here is emphatic that they do not want to reduce opportunities. So for now sundays would be used for species that would not see population effects from the added day (Groundhog etc..). His thoughts were that adding sundays to many big game seasons currently would reduce opportunity, through less antlerless allocations and less days per season to hunt.

He did express that in the future he sees that there will be a need for sunday big game hunting as license sales continue to drop and participation falls off, there simply will not be enough hunters to control populations with current regulations. He also expressed concern that even sunday hunting may not be enough and that we will eventually see a process here like other states where multiple buck tags are issued with licences. He was looking 10-20 years in to the future mind you.

I disagree dpsm. SLOW accomplishes NOTHING. IF they are going to use it on the deer herd, what in gods name difference does it make if its this year or they wait till next?

"He did express that in the future he sees that there will be a need for sunday big game hunting as license sales continue to drop and participation falls off, there simply will not be enough hunters to control populations with current regulations."

We currently have double or triple the hunter numbers of some similar sized states that still find a way to manage without life as they know it ending. How far down the road will it be before we would NEED sunday hunting from a legitimate management perspective? A LOOOOONG ways down that road. Remember it also takes far fewer deer harvested now that the herd is smaller to keep it in line. Its not a matter of need, and its not even worth being concerned with now. The issue is should we add more opportunity for sportsmen, not because its needed, but because some of us want it. And at what costs.

I also wouldnt put much stock in general statements made by a commissioner. One this past season promised split season for this unit plus allocation reduction because of the continuing to be reduced herd here that was pointed out, and a buck harvest that plumeted through our floor. Well they gave the split season and also countered any and all effects by not only not decreasing the ridiculous over the top allocation.....but they increased it to 65,000. On top of allowing anyone of any age to now shoot does as well. lol.

Pgcs actions over the last 10 years plus, and continued direction speaks for itself imho.

If they didnt add firearms when? Ever? Year 10? Heck who knows, by then given our herd trends, we are very liable to have even fewer deer then if nothing else changes. Then it would be even less acceptable imho. Thats why in my opinion, changes are needed before this should even be discussed whether it is year two or year 10. And no, I do not think they would refrain from rifle deer season for long at all. Not realistic expectation for them imho. I dont think you would believe that either, but probably just throwing it out there for discussion purposes?

Btw, they are making NO promises of time frame, conditions etc. and I wouldnt trust them even if they did after recent past history. But I have little doubt they want this for one reason. And its the same exact reason they wanted nearly a million (and even over a few years) tags, dmap, concurrent seasons, mentored youth, crossbows, early rifle and muzzleloader seasons... ALL in the last 10 years or so. And with far fewer deer are we throttling back on the opportunities etc? No. Now they are looking for even more! lol.

You want SLOW, Well perhaps we are long overdue for them to slowly INCREASE the deer herd for a change instead of all the fast or slow REDUCTION?

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

If Sunday hunting means killing more deer than by all means make it legal. Many areas such as 2B have way too many deer.

 
On paper yes, a great tool to increase harvest where it is needed and one I would support.  But, these areas where much of the hyped "conflict" supposedly will happen. 
 
 

Ok Mr Farmer, you don't want Sunday hunting and will shut off your land to hunting. Then the PGC will drop you from the farm co-op program and there will be even more deer to deal with.

 
One of the contradictions to the PFB's position statements.  They have asked for and received many tools to help them control crop loss.  Now, because the discussion is about Sunday, they no longer need or want hunters. 

I understand, though I disagree with it, the argument that land owners will close their land if Sunday hunting comes. Make it public land only to start if that's the deal. I don't see why landowners just can't stipulate to those with permission to hunt their property, that Sundays are totally off limits. Oh wait, that's because of all the slobs in PA that don't take the time to gain permission to hunt privately owned land But I digress.

I just don't see a dramatic increase in deer harvest with Sunday hunting. Slight maybe.

I believe it's DarDys who has thrown out a couple of times the number of firearms deer season only hunters at about 60 or 70% of PA's total hunting population (correct me if I'm wrong on the source or the numbers). We all know the type. Hunts maybe 3 days a year, at least 1, sometimes 2. Goes to the same spot every year without much advanced scouting, etc, etc.

I don't believe for a second that giving these guys 2 extra days a year isn't going to significantly alter the deer harvest. Their lives are usually just as busy on Sundays are they are on Saturdays. And let's face it, for most guys I know that hunt like this, hunting's just not a priority. More like a tradition.

The biggest proponents for Sunday hunting I hear are sportsmen who are pretty serious about hunting, and generally fill as many deer tags as they'd like to anyway. Many of these guys focus on trophy bucks, and will let many legal bucks walk all season long and fill their freezers with does anyway. They're gonna score regardless of whether they have 2 or 10 extra days a year.

At least give small game and waterfowl hunters a crack at Sunday hunting. They're not going to decimate small game populations any more than they have already been by predators and development. Waterfowl bag limits and number of hunting days are controlled by the feds anyway. Duck and goose season wouldn't be as long as they currently are but only shortened by a little.

It's time for PA to do this.

Dpms says; One of the contradictions to the PFB's position statements. They have asked for and received many tools to help them control crop loss. Now, because the discussion is about Sunday, they no longer need or want hunters."

They never said they no longer want or need hunters. Some are just pushing their hand. Perhaps they are "satisfied" more or less that reduction has been accomplished and they dont need another tool on top of the many they already have. Perhaps they see that even many hunters do not support it.

Doc says: "That new opportunity will not necessarily increase antlerless harvests.. the mentor has to "give up" HIS/HER antlerless tag to the mentored youth... it's still only one antlerless deer per tag ...."

Sure it will doc. Especially in units with high allocations where its not necessary for anyone to "give up" anything. They simply buy one more. SInce I was speaking of my unit, and the fact it now has a head-up-butt 65,000 allocation.

rsquared says: "I just don't see a dramatic increase in deer harvest with Sunday hunting. Slight maybe."

Dramatic is open to individual interpretation. Though I do not see any further reduction to herd in most units as "a good thing" by any stretch of the imagination. Id say its about time that the reductions end. I dont think that is too unreasonable a request. I think further reduction IS an unresonable request.

"I don't believe for a second that giving these guys 2 extra days a year isn't going to significantly alter the deer harvest."

Not trying to be a wisearse here, but imho that is nothing more than wishful thinking. Another nonwork/nonschool day in rifle season with no changes to anything else will have a detrimental effect. A few less deer the next year. A few less the year thereafter. ON TOP OF the already slight but steady ongoing decline in many units as it already stands.

"At least give small game and waterfowl hunters a crack at Sunday hunting. They're not going to decimate small game populations any more than they have already been by predators and development."

Giving pgc this legilsation gives them the say period. Not us. You either agree to it and hope in one hand and pizz in the other that they implement ONLY this or ONLY that...But that is not going to be the case. There are no strings attached. You either support it or you dont. I dont. Besides, Pgc/dcnr and their merry band of enviromentalist supporters didnt just now start the campaign for this to kill more rabbits or geese. Im sure they could care less about them since they dont eat trillium. The crosshairs are on bigger fish for them to fry. Hooved fish.

Btw, anyone see the jokers from usp supporting this? They have been outspoken for years and staunchly (rightfully) distrust the pgc. In fact just got done losing three lawsuits over pgc killing too many deer, now they want something that will kill more. Go figure! lol

Just jaggin' ya. Of course you and I and most reading know that most farmers arent shooting off propane canons 24/7 even those that dont like deer all that much, regardless of how they feel about sunday hunting. lol.

Though I do know one that used to use one to keep the crows out of his corn. His fields were apparently in a pretty heavy flyway and used to get bombarded. Begged guys to come and shoot 'em.

My statement about 3 farmers was ONLY in reply to OA's comment about farms in the PGC co-op programand wanting more deer killed because of crop damage, most farmers here no longer have near the problem they had before herd reduction in the area as far as crop damage. Bear are actually causing more corn damage than deer around here...

In NO WAY was I referring to the general farmers in this area..

I have posted several times that not just those I know but those talking to the local politcians are totally against Sunday hunting and realize if passed there is not way they can patrol their land on Sundays... State police are not interested in enforcing trespassing laws now let alone on Sundays.... and the PG's hands are tied as far as trespassing laws unless a game code is ALSO being violated...

Farmers LAUGH at the idea of posting for NO SUNDAY HUNTING..... many are posted now and hunters pay no attention to the signs.... much easiler and less headahces to just closed the land completely....

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

My statement about 3 farmers was ONLY in reply to OA's comment about farms in the PGC co-op programand wanting more deer killed because of crop damage, most framers here no longer have near the problem they had before herd reduction in this area as far as crop damage. Bear are actually causing more corn damage than deer around here...

In NO WAY was I referring to the general farmers in this area.. I have posted several times that not just those I know but those talking to the local politcians are totally against Sunday hutning and realize if passed there is not way they can patrol their land. State police are not interested in enfoprcieng trespassing laws now let alone on Sundays.... and the PGC hands are tied as far trespassing laws unless a game code is ALSO being violated...

You really can't base the legalization of Sunday hunting based on 2F. It's the state as a whole. I agree some areas in 2F the deer are thin. A persistent and smart hunter will put venison on the table regardless.

Last year I was able to get 2 doe tags and a buck tag. I hunted and killed 3 deer. This year I got 2 doe and 1 buck tag and will kill 3 deer. How is hunting Sunday going to increase the number of deer I kill ?

As far as this discussion goes, I couldnt care less about you killing three deer, ten, or zero. In the overall scheme of things thats meaningless. The added harvest of thousands or tens of thousands...Not so much. But this isnt all about you. And its not all about me. That would be extremely shortsighted. There are hundreds of thousands of others involved here as well. Their satisfaction matters, their money matters, and their impacts to the herd matters. More days afield, especially more nonwork non school days means more harvest among them. That is until the herd is reduced even further by that added harvest and consequently the harvest falls even further with it.

Less deer is not good for the sport of hunting in this state no matter how you slice it or sugar coat it. Especially when its already been significantly reduced. 50 year low buck harvests isnt something good, nor is lawsuits, managers needing to wear bullet proof vests, or all time low levels of trust and satisfaction of hunters towards pgc, nor is us having such an uncaring treacherous agency. But like it or not, that is our reality.

I use to 2F because it is my home, just like you always talk about the farmers/deer/etc in your area... 2G is not the entire state either, but there are similar problems there and in other WMUs........

I simply am writing the reasons I hear .. you'd better believe those same reasons are being forwarded to politicians all across the state...


As for more deer harvest...

the first Saturday in rifle is the 2nd highest day for harvest, mainly because I believe there truly are lots of guys that can not get off work on opening day...now add the following day (Sunday) and the ability for those same guys to have a 2 day hunt... how can that NOT increase the chances of more harvest....

the hunters that today can only hunt 2-3 days would automatically get 2 more days in rifle season if Sundays are legal.. so the 2-3 days would become 4-6 and thus more opportunities for a harvest.. thus higher harvest of both males and females..

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

If they are shooting cannons and have all that crop damage .....

why do they not join a PGC co-op and open their land ..

oh wait ----- they could NOT charge or lease to hunt there then ....

Soooooo those farmers are more about MONEY than the sport of hunting...

Yep they could give a flying **** about the PGC and hunting . Some were in the program and dropped out. They want control of who hunts. As more and more hunters are looking for an easy kill the farmer will provide that at a fair cost to the hunter. Both sides seem to benifit then.