dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 15:02:42
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
And giving pgc another option to kill more deer may not be "obligating" them to use it, but its about like throwing meat to a dog. Utilizing it would be an automatic almost involuntary reaction!lol
Over the past few years the PGC has shortened the antlerless season in almost half the state by 5 days. Just sayin.
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bassboatbill
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 15:09:23
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Gene, your gonna end up with carpal tunnel after this mess...lol
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 15:23:01
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I believe it is a valid argument that Sunday hunting may cause some loss of hunting grounds. The landowner still has the right to say "no hunting on Sundays" on his property though, I just can't stay on the side lines...  WF that is true.. BUT that is not what land owners, farmers, timber industry, etc are saying... they are saying.. We will close our land COMPLETELY if Sunday hunting is approved.... they are that STEAD-FAST in their opposition... and what do they have to lose.. NOTHING... more small game for family and "close friends" and if the deer get out of control they'll just kill them for damage or push legislation for the PGC to be responsible for the damage that their deer are causing and in this case the politicians just may be on their side of the landowners and make another change = making the PGC responsible.. hunters CAN NOT WIN this thing.. we are not other states.... states with far less hunters did not have as much opposition from anyone.. and if memory serves me right in several it was up for public vote and got approved... that would never happen here and that's why the politicians (ONCE AGAIN) want nothing to do with changing it... Can you even honestly image a large or even small property owner trying to enforce no hunting on Sundays when it legal and allowed everywhere else ????? who they gonna call.. no one wants to deal with trespassing now for the most part.. and on a Sunday ..??? where ya gonna get the money to pay for the WCOs now having to work Sundays .. even if it was just small game.. then comes turkey season .. then archery season, then rifle, then late archery.. on and on.. BAD IDEA == the PGC and hunters LOSE this one guys...
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 15:34:48
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
We will close our land COMPLETELY if Sunday hunting is approved.... they are that STEAD-FAST in their opposition...
Please clarify what you mean by "if Sunday hunting is approved"? It already is. Just is controlled by politicians. Do you mean land would be closed just because regulatory control changed hands, even if Sundays were not added? Do you mean land would be closed if Sundays were included in all seasons and species? Let me give a hypothetical for you to answer. If the PGC was given regulatory control and only added the Sunday after the junior turkey opener, would landowners post thier lands as a result?
post edited by dpms - 2011/03/14 15:38:24
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 15:35:40
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"Over the past few years the PGC has shortened the antlerless season in almost half the state by 5 days. Just sayin." The BOC changed the seasons. Not pgc staff. It was also due to incredible political pressure being applied...lawsuits, constant complaint from legislators and hunters, fee increase denial and even talk of staff needing to be fired....., plus pgc has a strong desire for more funding. Im sure youre aware the suggestions were NOT to go to split seasons and lower allocations by pgc staff. The boc's intent is still very unclear, and one never knows if we have another majority of anal thinkers like the last batch, or if we dont already, if we will again very very soon. The boc also will be losing boop this year. Who will replace him? God only knows. What better way to undo any effects of the meager changes than to add more high harvest days? Isnt that why the Skunk crew are supporting it? I remember the recent venom being spewed over these "changes" and now not long thereafter, gee, lets push sunday hunting! lol. Naaa. This is all wild conspiracy theory dont ya know! 
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/14 15:57:30
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 15:38:21
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Do you mean land would be closed just because regulatory control changed hands, even oif Sundays were not added? Doc isnt a total fool apparently. He knows what regulatory control in the hands of pgc likely means as compared to regulatory control of legislators, with one FAR more likely to implement than the other.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/14 15:50:18
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 15:42:46
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Let me give a hypothetical for you to answer. If the PGC was given regulatory control and added the Sunday after the junior turkey opener, would landowners post thier lands as a result? yeah. Now we're pushing this for the junior turkey opener. Dpms, honestly, you dont see the humor in this? lol. We need to look at this REALISTICALLY and not ridiculously like we did when most of us signed off by agreeing with the deer plan previously. Listened to all the grand promises, lil' charismatic Gary was our buddy, and we were trusting and we were blind to worst case scenario and what was about to come. I believe some want sunday hunting for some reasonable reasons, others some not so reasonable. But i dont believe there are many who want control for pgc with no further actions being taken as far as implementation. And seeing as we have a few more DEER hunters then any other type... Not hard to see what season would be slated first and foremost. Throw in pgcs kill em all philosphy, and its basically a done deal.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/14 15:53:04
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 15:58:07
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
Not hard to see what season would be slated first and foremost. Throw in pgcs kill em all philosphy, and its basically a done deal.
That is your opinion. I believe deer would be last on the list. Irregardless, that is a discussion for another time. Gotta leave this one for awhile. Off to other arenas.
post edited by dpms - 2011/03/14 15:59:48
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 16:09:56
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Im done arguing it as well. Think ive made my positions clear enough. Others are welcome to disagree. No offense dpms, as i do respect your opinions, and alot more than some others that share many of your views from other boards. Especially the way you present your arguments despite being hot button topics, with vocal, sometimes 'ornery' opponents.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 16:53:02
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Please clarify what you mean by "if Sunday hunting is approved"?
It already is. Just is controlled by politicians.
Do you mean land would be closed just because regulatory control changed hands, even if Sundays were not added?
Do you mean land would be closed if Sundays were included in all seasons and species?
Let me give a hypothetical for you to answer. If the PGC was given regulatory control and only added the Sunday after the junior turkey opener, would landowners post their lands as a result? Okay maybe you call what is in place allowing Sunday hunting.. I call it the non-hunting residents of Pa having a VERY strong hold on Sunday hunting which they BY FAR do not totally approve of.. they trust the politicians will do (in their minds) the right thing NOT opening up Sunday hunting across the board.. they already know the elected officials are not going to do that .. so they can tolerate crows and yotes, maybe groundhogs even..... can't see the farmers disliking that one... let's ask for more. as some are and you get the opposition.. right in your face.. do it and see what happens... I don't want to take that chance.. my opposition to Sunday hunting is NOT coming from any anti- PGC side like Wayne's... I'm trying to show support for the PGC and how the PGC and us hunters are going to lose if this happens... and THANKFULLY the PGC folks that I know and communicate with have the sense to see what this is all about and it really is not about hunting on Sundays... if it were the politicians would gladly make the call... when have you ever heard politicians wanting to "pass the power" if they did not know it was a bad idea in general... as for the what do I means.. simply this.. #1...politicians I know and have communicated with are not going to touch this.. straight out of their MOUTHS !!!! "let the PGC get the "slack" and suffer the consequences..." #2.. some have said they already know many hunters are upset with the PGC about deer numbers and can see this as only adding to that divide.. and they could lose even more support from hunters too for re-election.. #3.. talking to land owners and what politicians have told me they hear .. YES... make any change to give the decision to the PGC on allowing or not allowing Sunday hunting and the land is closed.. PERIOD... they are not going to wait to see if and especially WHEN they (PGC)then starting allowing it for more species.. IT's CLOSED ...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/14 16:56:33
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RE: Sportsman's orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 17:31:42
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Shooting is permitted on Sundays, many clubs and ranges shoot Sundays. Lots of shooting at camps and such on Sundays. More people on ATVs on Sunday than any other day. Many organized events for dirt bikes and ATVs on Sundays.Land is posted for reasons other than they don't want people on it, so Sunday hunting won't make a difference.Some hunting is permitted on Sunday and expanding it would give guys a chance to get out more. Today many fathers work on Saturdays to make ends meet. Time spent in the field hunting with their sons or daughters is key to keeping our hunting heritage alive. Sunday hunting will only help.Today is a new world, not the one Dr trout grew up in.Bars and stores along with other businesses are all open now days on Sundays.So if hunters are denied to hunt the only day they have they will surely do something other than hunting. Our sport will decline even more and the anti's will take over. Contact your legislators and ask them to support Sunday hunting no matter what Dr. Trout thinks in his twisted mind. Hunting on Suday is no differn't than fishing on Sunday. ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
Yes I fish on Sundays and I disturb NO ONE.... no shouting, no shooting , no ATVs running around taking me where I want to go.. no trespassing...not on private property..
no comparison.. nice try though...
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RE: Sportsman's orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 17:40:34
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#1...politicians I know and have communicated with are not going to touch this.. straight out of their MOUTHS !!!! "let the PGC get the "slack" and suffer the consequences..."
#2.. some have said they already know many hunters are upset with the PGC about deer numbers and can see this as only adding to that divide.. and they could lose even more support from hunters too for re-election..
#3.. talking to land owners and what politicians have told me they hear .. YES... make any change to give the decision to the PGC on allowing or not allowing Sunday hunting and the land is closed.. PERIOD... they are not going to wait to see if and especially WHEN they (PGC)then starting allowing it for more species.. IT's CLOSED ... People do your own research as you will soon find out how ridiculous these statements are. They are simply an opinion and none are fact !!
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsman's orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 18:57:51
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and that my friends is an out and out LIE.. and we all know it.. and have heard the same things especially if we look outside the internet for real input and real information to form our thoughts and opinions.. some folks are just internet junkies... and that's all they know.... what I posted are true statements... O.A. has no idea who I talk to or what they told me.. or even who I am... it's just another of his "attack policies" directed at belittling me because he has nothing better to post... and hopes to change the attention of the readers... anything I have ever posted about what someone has told me has NEVER been proved wrong or false... and I have no fears about anyone reading my posts and saying I lied about what I was told... or what they said... O.A is just in his own little world and appears to be more worried about new PGC buildings than hunting matters and he has proven over and over he does not like the PGC and could care less if they get destroyed with the Sunday hunting issue...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/14 19:00:38
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S-10
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 19:33:40
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The PGC getting regulatory control does not add any Sundays to our seasons. Folks can lobby the legislature now for just that. All that would change is folks would have to lobby the PGC.
No one is saying that Sundays will be added. All this is, is a reasonable chance to allow our game agency to manage game seven days a week and not six. Sundays may or may not be added, just as it is now. DPMS---If your really going to try to make anyone think the sole reason for this isn't to get Sunday hunting and especially Sunday for deer you need to go back and revise your letter. You know, maybe take out the parts that STATE-- REMOVE THE BAN ON SUNDAY HUNTING and a couple similiar sentenses. You may also want to tell us how many of the Crossbow Federation members hunt anything besides DEER and occasionally a turkey. Landowners against Sunday hunting= 80%---------Hunters against Sunday hunting = 47%. Trying to muddy up the water with weasel works in the questionare doesn't change those numbers.
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 20:08:08
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ORIGINAL: S-10
Sunday for deer you need to go back and revise your letter. You know, maybe take out the parts that STATE-- REMOVE THE BAN ON SUNDAY HUNTING and a couple similiar sentenses. Not too bad since I last checked. Those were Palone's words. The PCF's statement is below that. Thinking forward, not backward as times change.
post edited by dpms - 2011/03/14 20:11:06
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S-10
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 20:35:12
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Thinking forward, not backward as times change. What's changed except the possibility that you may have picked up an additional BOC member that will support Sunday hunting if given the chance? The landowners are still solidly against Sunday hunting and the hunters themselves still only narrowly support it. It seems like the wise person would let sleeping dogs lie at this juncture of the PGC's relationship with the public.
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 20:50:23
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ORIGINAL: S-10
What's changed Been working on this for some time. Both as a individual and with the PCF. At some point you got to go. Being a realist, I am aware that failure might happen. But nothing is accomplished without trying. If the issue is moved forward just a hair, that is a step in the right direction. I am quite confident Pa. will be like every other state and the boogeyman will remain in the closet.
post edited by dpms - 2011/03/14 20:53:21
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RE: Sportsman's orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 21:01:35
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S-10
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 21:04:05
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that is a step in the right direction. That is a matter of opinion. I fail to see the benefit in pizzing off the people who I depend on for a place to hunt. Even today, after all the access the average hunter lost as a result of HR we still enjoy more open land than any of the dozen or so states I have hunted in. I would like to keep it that way.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 21:30:21
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That is a matter of opinion. I fail to see the benefit in pizzing off the people who I depend on for a place to hunt. Even today, after all the access the average hunter lost as a result of HR we still enjoy more open land than any of the dozen or so states I have hunted in. I would like to keep it that way. There in lays 80% of the trouble.. folks pushing for Sunday hunting are not worried about someone posting the lands they hunt... they are just looking at adding days to their hunting schedules... as I said I already know 2 of the properties I hunt will get posted IMMEDAITELY = NO HUNTING... and no one is mentioning what will happen to the PGC if they are dumb enough to make the call and ask to make the decision and it fails -- which it will --- because we keep saying the majority of no one.. NO group ==== wants it.... and they just keep saying so what == go for it Pa residents are just not ready for this...
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 21:40:57
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
There in lays 80% of the trouble.. folks pushing for Sunday hunting
To clarify, I am asking for our game agency to accept the responsibility of regulating hunting seven days of the week. If that happens, you, I and the non-hunting public can express our concerns for the actual addition of a Sunday or Sundays to a specific season. For the record, I am also concerned about land being posted. Some surely will be even if no Sundays or a few are added. But I am okay knowing that with time, the idea of Sunday hunting or the PGC regulating it will be accepted and welcomed as a positive addition. It is a matter of opinion and many will differ. After three pages of back and forth, my point is known. I ask those that support the PGC gaining regulatory control to let the BOC know it and ask them to pass a resolution supporting it. If you disagree, do as you see fit. Thanks.
post edited by dpms - 2011/03/14 21:48:28
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 22:02:59
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regulating hunting seven days of the week regulatory control call it what you want it's step one in trying to make something happen that the majority of Pa. residents do not want.. Sunday Hunting.. those that want it know the politicians will not and are not going to do it.. so the next best thing is get the PGC to do and let them suffer the consequences of pizzing-off hunters and non-hunters alike.... ridiculous idea at this point of time in Pa. history so I agree write and express your thoughts. IT's been a fun day !!!! gene = you're still "A-Okay" in my book just too adventurous on this one...
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bingsbaits
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 23:04:58
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Can't beleive after all the crap you gave us about being selfish on the crossbow debate you would want to deny hunters the opportunity to hunt. Sounds kinda selfish to me Doc.
Remember all that talk about how selfish we were beacuse we wanted to deny the use of the crossbow. No different here...
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 23:42:02
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.......BIG DIFFERENCE IN MY BOOK.... crossbow debate was hunter against hunters... Sunday hunting is also hunter against hunter.. but that's not the big one.. it's non-hunters and landowners against Sunday hunting.... really has nothing to do with wildife populationas, harvest numbers, season etc etc.. they don't want to allow Sunday hunting PERIOD.. why is that so hard to understand.... it does not matter that some of it is hunter verus hunter... HUNTERS as a whole will lose if Sunday hunting gets approved by anyone.... If everyone in the state or even the majority was for it I could probably accept it... but I sure as heck ain't about to ask for something that no one ( majority of Pennsylvanians) wants... and certianly don't want the PGC making the call and then the "fall"..... BTW.. if I wanted to make the "selfish arguement" I could easily do that on this topic too... hunters don't care about anyone but themselves.. give us Sunday hunting we could care less about any of you other people or what you think... but I DO relaize it is also about more opportunites to hunt which I like.. but not at the cost it would be to get that... understand ???
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/14 23:49:08
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/15 00:43:00
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I will say one thing for Dr Trout , he is entertaining. I never laughed so hard!! Bings I think you hit the nail on the head. Hey Trout, what makes you an expert saying the majority of Pa residents don't want Sunday hunting??? I'm betting you never venture far from the porch. This article proves that your read too much as your words are almost word for word to this article. You are amazing !!!! http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=172206 ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
.......BIG DIFFERENCE IN MY BOOK....
crossbow debate was hunter against hunters...
Sunday hunting is also hunter against hunter.. but that's not the big one..
it's non-hunters and landowners against Sunday hunting.... really has nothing to do with wildife populationas, harvest numbers, season etc etc..
they don't want to allow Sunday hunting PERIOD.. why is that so hard to understand....
it does not matter that some of it is hunter verus hunter... HUNTERS as a whole will lose if Sunday hunting gets approved by anyone....
If everyone in the state or even the majority was for it I could probably accept it... but I sure as heck ain't about to ask for something that no one ( majority of Pennsylvanians) wants...
and certianly don't want the PGC making the call and then the "fall".....
BTW.. if I wanted to make the "selfish arguement" I could easily do that on this topic too...
hunters don't care about anyone but themselves.. give us Sunday hunting we could care less about any of you other people or what you think...
but I DO relaize it is also about more opportunites to hunt which I like.. but not at the cost it would be to get that... understand ???
post edited by Outdoor Adventures - 2011/03/15 00:53:16
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/15 01:14:04
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NY,OH,WV,MI all have a large number of farm land . Sunday hunting is allowed in these states and the land is still open. Proof is in the pudding. Now who going to believe ???? Opportunity will push Pa hunters to these areas as they have more to offer.
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bingsbaits
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/15 06:53:50
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Doc,If that's your opinion of hunters and you really beleive that then I feel sorry for you and RSB. Mabee you shouldn't ascociate with hunters as youhave a pretty **** poor attitude about them..
I would like to see Sunday hunting, if I were selfish I would try and stop it, I can hunt anyday I want to..Calling all hunters names continuosly makes you look like a fool.
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/15 08:13:47
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
it's non-hunters and landowners against Sunday hunting.... really has nothing to do with wildife populationas, harvest numbers, season etc etc..
they don't want to allow Sunday hunting PERIOD.. why is that so hard to understand....
One last comment here. Doc, this is why I asked you to step back and look a bit deeper. When we start weighing the thoughts of non-hunters and residents of a state more than the thoughts of hunters and game agencies when it comes to game regulations bad things happen. California and New Jersey being prime examples. Hunting should be regulated by game agencies. Tule elk are slated for extermination in California and hikers are dying from a over abundant mountain lion population. Bear seasons in Jersey are iffy depending on the political winds. These are not good things for hunters and hunting and these are presicely what happens when the concerns of the non-hunting public drive hunting regulations.
post edited by dpms - 2011/03/15 08:17:39
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/15 11:18:03
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Ghez.. I never said I wanted anyone but the PGC to have the say when it comes to populations and managing wildlife.. they have those powers now... I could give a diddly what the non-hunting public thinks about how the PGC and hunters do those duties. I fell bad for the PGC if they can not control populations habitat, etc in 6 days rather than 7 and feel they need control of that day too..... why would anyone want to P.O. the non-hunters in this state ? For the most part they support hunting, Sunday hunting just "stirs" them up.... surely you do not believe we now or ever will have to hunt 7 days a week to control wildlife populations... If at some point we need more days to harvest then add day or a week to the season we already have.. that would add opportunity and increased harvest.. but then we all know the hunters that are complaining would be the ones that would be P.O. It's a no win situation... so why put the PGC on the chopping block to make the decision ??? majority of hunters do not want Sunday hunting... it's not that I am an expert O.A.. It's in every poll I have seen.. a majority is more than 50% of those responding... as for attitude towards hunters... I do not often put the word majority in front of something unless I have seen polls or studies that show that to be true... so when I criticize Pa hunters or other hunters I am basing that on what I see, hear, and read about... to put my head in the sand and pretend we do not have "bad apples", slobs, poachers, etc amongst us would be silly... and I'm sorry if I am the only one in the state or on this board that thinks those numbers are growing compared to the past... I have always told it as I see it... if other don't like it = so be it .. I'm not going to try to paint a beautiful picture of them with out pointing out the bad.. that would be silly... they call attention to themselves all the time... just look at the reporting rates.. now if you want to hide behind words and support saying Pa hunters are the greatest thing on earth so be it.. NOT ME... as I have said before quite a few are only worried about being successful at killing what ever it is they are after... I will try to be more selective in my word choice to not present the idea that the "bad guys" are the majority though... but I will not pretend they are not there.. I am not anti-hunting, but I am not going to sit back and lie about what is going on in the sport... keeping quiet and acting like it is not there will only hurt the sport ... Sunday hunting is about one thing and only one thing.. adding days so hunters can hunt and harvest more game.. which is GREAT... I'd support that... but don't go against the majority of Pennsylvanians to do it.... hunting will lose that battle... forget Sundays... ======== More opportunity to harvest ideas ===== let's start rifle season on the Saturday after thanksgiving.. I'll support that.... let's add the last Saturday in December as a last chance day to kill a deer with any legal weapon.. I'll support that... Let's add two weeks to small game seaosn.. I'll support that.. Let's hunt turkeys all day in the spring.. I'll support that Let's let senior have the same AR restrictions as juniors. I support that let's let mentored youth use the adults doe tag.. I support that Now those would all add opportunity to harvest more wildlife, add more days for workers to try to have off to hunt, probably not upset one farmer, one landowner, one forestry guy, they would just P.O. some hunters themselves .. So why push for Sunday.. there are added opportunties right there... and they would upset75% less people of Pa.... and the PGC can already make those changes with the stroke of a pen...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/15 11:22:55
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wayne c
Pro Angler
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/15 11:50:43
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"When we start weighing the thoughts of non-hunters and residents of a state more than the thoughts of hunters and game agencies when it comes to game regulations..." Youre kidding right??? You do realize we live in Pennsylfornia now right??? "bad things happen." I agree.... Like deer wars. "California and New Jersey being prime examples." And Pennsylvania comes QUICKLY to mind. LINK
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/15 11:55:55
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