dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 11:25:24
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
I want NO ONE but the PGC controlling decisions about what species, what time of the year and how to hunt wildlife to HELP them manage wildlife for population and habitat...
however this has nothing to do with that.. this has to do with harvesting MORE wildlife by adding a non-work day for the majority of PA residents... adding another day harvesting more will increase harvest numbers and lower populations.... and TOTALLY upset non-hunters...
Doc. You are missing the point. Adding Sundays is not the issue here. Nor is adding days. The legislature can already add Sundays. The issue is who should have regulatory control, game agencies or politicians. The PGC getting regulatory control does not add any Sundays to our seasons. Folks can lobby the legislature now for just that. All that would change is folks would have to lobby the PGC. No one is saying that Sundays will be added. All this is, is a reasonable chance to allow our game agency to manage game seven days a week and not six. Sundays may or may not be added, just as it is now. This is a good example of how misunderstood this issue is, even among sportsmen. You say no one should manage wildlife other than the PGC, yet do not support them managing wildlife on Sunday??
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bassboatbill
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 11:29:00
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ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
Doc. You are missing the point. Adding Sundays is not the issue here. Nor is adding days. The legislature can already add Sundays. The issue is who should have regulatory control, game agencies or politicians.
The PGC getting regulatory control does not add any Sundays to our seasons. Folks can lobby the legislature now for just that. All that would change is folks would have to lobby the PGC.Â
No one is saying that Sundays will be added. All this is, is a reasonable chance to allow our game agency to manage game seven days a week and not six. Sundays may or may not be added, just as it is now.
This is a good example of how misunderstood this issue is, even among sportsmen. You say no one should manage wildlife other than the PGC, yet do not support them managing wildlife on Sunday??
Very Very well put on to how this is a very misunderstood issue...
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 11:32:54
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And finally... I don't want to hear the slowly add species.. wait for deer.. we all know that is not what is pushing this.... It's the anti PGC folks and the guys wanting to kill more deer...
Look at the folks (HUNTERS) saying go to a three day does season... stop antlerless hunting for a year or two, lower allocations, get rid of crossbows they are now killing to many bucks with them, get rid of the october rifle and muzzie season, we need more rabbits, more grouse, more pheasants, more game in general...
they all what more in the way of NUMBERS... NOT DAYS TO HUNT what small amounts we do have ???????
and these folks are Pa hunters... PGC allows Sunday hunting you think they are going to be supportive ????
add the farmers, foresters, landowners, family and church people, and those hunters all jumping on the anti-PGC wagon and you think the PGC could survive or even the sport of hunting ????
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 11:39:26
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
PGC allows Sunday hunting you think they are going to be supportive ????
Please doc. Regulatory control is not a mandate for additional Sunday hunting opportunities. There are very distinct and seperate issues. Sundays can be added now without input from our game agency. How to implement it is the topic for another day. The PFSC must lead in this case. Many folks and orgs that understand the issue are lining up in support of legislative action to give the PGC regulatory control of hunting. The PGC itself is discussing as we speak. It is a no brainer if you support hunting and game agencies managing our wildlife. The question is do hunters and/or sportsmens orgs support game agencies managing wildlife seven days of the week or six.
post edited by dpms - 2011/03/14 11:50:18
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S-10
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 11:49:14
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Doc. You are missing the point. Adding Sundays is not the issue here. Nor is adding days. The legislature can already add Sundays. The issue is who should have regulatory control, game agencies or politicians. Not on this issue he isn't missing the point. The only reason the subject of regulatory control has been brought up is the feeling that the PGC and BOC may be more apt to grant Sunday hunting than the Legislature. The skunk lady is for it because she is for anything that will kill more deer. Heck, she wanted to kill them with spears. The major polls have shown landowners against Sunday hunting 80% to 20%. The polls of hunters show they favor Sunday hunting 53% to 47%. Not exactly a landslide. I lost enough land to hunt as a direct result of AR/HR and have no interest in losing more as a result of Sunday hunting. I can also think of no logical reason the PGC would want to get in the middle of another coutroversy until the present one dies down. I think I know why DPMS is pushing this now as I too believe the BOC is narrowly in favor of trying it at the present time. Doc. You are missing the point. Adding Sundays is not the issue here. Nor is adding days. The legislature can already add Sundays. The issue is who should have regulatory control, game agencies or politicians.
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 11:54:07
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ORIGINAL: S-10
The only reason the subject of regulatory control has been brought up is the feeling that the PGC and BOC may be more apt to grant Sunday hunting than the Legislature. Wrong in my case. It is a matter of what is right and what is better for hunting as a whole. Here and nationwide. These things ebb and flow. Right now it is flowing and that is why the issue is current. 40 states allow it if my memory is correct and it does seem that those game agencies are doing okay with the responsibility.
post edited by dpms - 2011/03/14 12:04:51
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:02:46
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ORIGINAL: S-10
The polls of hunters show they favor Sunday hunting 53% to 47%. Not exactly a landslide.
Yes if the issue is Sunday hunting. When the same folks are asked about regulatory control with an explanation of what it is, things change. I am aware of two with the numbers increasing to 84% and 75% in favor of.
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:06:31
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"Not on this issue he isn't missing the point. The only reason the subject of regulatory control has been brought up is the feeling that the PGC and BOC may be more apt to grant Sunday hunting than the Legislature. BINGO!!!! " The skunk lady is for it because she is for anything that will kill more deer." BINGO!!!! I also agrew with everything else s10. Too much current controversy too, and no need to add more fuel to the fire. Also with all the new "changes" why would we add even more... FAR MORE instability to our deer management models & data charts??? They already have the changes to nonconcurrent seasons, now talking about changing ar... Add Sundays with more high harvest days per season... And how in the hell are they supposed to take ALL These new changes and compare current to previous harvests etc. to determine real herd trends?? Yeah yeah, i know, they're professionals. They can work magic! lmao.   Also dpsm, I find it odd that those that opposed legislative involvement so vocally, arent so inclined when its something they favor... And no matter how you choose to paint it, it takes legislative involvment to give pgc "say so".
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/14 12:09:57
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:08:48
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sorry gene.. not buying this.. Doc. You are missing the point. Adding Sundays is not the issue here. Nor is adding days. The legislature can already add Sundays. The issue is who should have regulatory control, game agencies or politicians. It's all about adding SUNDAYS ... who you kidding...  Pa residents DO NO WANT IT !!!! PERIOD.... look -- AT 66 -- I COULD TRUTHFULLY CARE LESS.... this is ALL about hunting on Sunday-- a religious day... sure the politicians can change it but they know better... and are not going to do it.... non-hunters DO NOT WANT IT and they are the mass.... It has NOTHING to do with hunting... we don't need another day to hunt.. wild animals are not all of a sudden causing that much harm or danger... you guys can keep "sugar coating" it by making it about who makes decisions on managing game.. but you'll NEVER convince me of that now or in the future .. we do not need Sundays to control the wildlife... it's just that simple.. just let it be.. leave it alone = no one is agruing about who gets to make the decisions except those anti=PGC folks... and they are doing such a good job they now have "pro PGC guy = like dpms " on their side pushing it as regulatory control, but to each his own... I just want to make the point one last time === it is not about needing an extra day or who decides.. it's about taking the SABBATH as a holy day and day of rest away ... it's about NON-hunters who support the PGC and turning them against the PGC ... it's about who pays the price for Sunday Hunting.. politicians or the PGC... and IMHO it does not take much to realize that give it to the PGC and let them lose is the choice here.......... and just for the record.. this one always make me laugh === the day of rest did NOT mean for the animals as so many like to pretend by saying it meant give the animals a day of rest from hunting pressure... 
who should have """regulatory control"""" = the new buzz word for killing the PGC
since "deer wars" is not doing it... we'll try to use the Sunday Hunting issue ... The PGC already has that on EVERYTHING that is important to wildlife managing and I support their efforts... to try to do somehitng with this SUNDAY thing really does not have much effect on wildlife other than to possibly add a day for more killing that most Pennsylvanians do not support.. ... it's about Pa residents and their personal life... not hunting not wildlife and for the record... you guys who think I'm so 100% in the tank for the PGC...... they take on and ask for permission to even decide about Sunday hunting. and they can kiss my support, hunting dollars, and licenses fees .... GOOD BYE ...... I'm done now on Sunday hunting , just like I hope the subject is and these have been my thoughts as I wrote here and what my calls and E-mails to those concerned have also said for years now....... have fun guys =====
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DarDys
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:12:50
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
sorry gene..
not buying this..
Doc. You are missing the point. Adding Sundays is not the issue here. Nor is adding days. The legislature can already add Sundays. The issue is who should have regulatory control, game agencies or politicians.
It's all about adding SUNDAYS ... who you kidding...
Pa residents DO NO WANT IT !!!! PERIOD....
look -- AT 66 -- I COULD TRUTHFULLY CARE LESS....
this is ALL about hunting on Sunday-- a religious day... sure the politicians can change it but they know better... and are not going to do it.... non-hunters DO NOT WANT IT and they are the mass....
It has NOTHING to do with hunting... we don't need another day to hunt.. wild animals are not all of a sudden causing that much harm or danger... you guys can keep "sugar coating" it by making it about who makes decisions on managing game.. but you'll NEVER convince me of that
now or in the future .. we do not need Sundays to control the wildlife... it's just that simple..
just let it be.. leave it alone =
no one is agruing about who gets to make the decisions except those anti=PGC folks... and they are doing such a good job they now have "pro PGC guy = like dpms " on their side pushing it as regulatory control,
but to each his own...
I just want to make the point one last time === it is not about needing an extra day or who decides.. it's about taking the SABBATH as a holy day and day of rest away ... it's about NON-hunters who support the PGC and turning them against the PGC ... it's about who pays the price for Sunday Hunting.. politicians or the PGC...
and IMHO it does not take much to realize that give it to the PGC and let them lose is the choice here..........
and just for the record.. this one always make me laugh === the day of rest did NOT mean for the animals as so many like to pretend by saying it meant give the animals a day of rest from hunting pressure...
who should have """regulatory control"""" = the new buzz word for killing the PGC
since "deer wars" is not doing it... we'll try to use the Sunday Hunting issue ...
The PGC already has that on EVERYTHING that is important to wildlife managing and I support their efforts... to try to do somehitng with this SUNDAY thing really does not have much effect on wildlife other than to possibly add a day for more killing that most Pennsylvanians do not support.. ... it's about Pa residents and their personal life... not hunting not wildlife
and for the record... you guys who think I'm so 100% in the tank for the PGC......
they take on and ask for permission to even decide about Sunday hunting. and they can kiss my support, hunting dollars, and licenses fees .... GOOD BYE ......
I'm done now on Sunday hunting , just like I hope the subject is and these have been my thoughts as I wrote here and what my calls and E-mails to those concerned have also said for years now.......
have fun guys =====
Doc, Do you fish on Sunday?
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:14:52
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As with most message board discussions, rarely are opinions changed. Thankfully, as a whole, the issue is further advanced than where it was five years ago. I am happy about that, anyway.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:17:06
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Just read what what was posted as I was typing.. last comment.. gene.. I wrote this morning to the PFSC about the spring convention and once again had my "rant" that they will loose me and my club as supporters if they even THINK ABOUT asking the PGC to take on Sunday hunting... We (PFSC) already had the resolution about Sundays (twice I believe) at the clubs and convention.. sunday hunting LOST... PERIOD.... get over it.... regulatory control ==  they already have that ===== so if worse comes to worse... yes I'll support allowing the PGC to have ""regulatory control"" for only 6 days a week for their OWN GOOD === NOT SUNDAYS!!!!
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/14 12:18:49
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:19:39
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
Pa residents DO NO WANT IT !!!! PERIOD....
Very slippery slope. New Jersey politicians didn't want bear hunting either. Wonder if you polled the residents, if bear hunting would be legal there. I bet if you polled California residents, hunting would be abolished. Anyway, sorry we disagree on who should regulate hunting seven days of the week.
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:19:47
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I dont believe its further advanced at all, i believe its exactly where it was 5 years ago. Only differences as we go on are in who those are that are the decisionmakers, and those who support it try different routes to implement it.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/14 12:22:07
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:20:56
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Yes I fish on Sundays and I disturb NO ONE.... no shouting, no shooting , no ATVs running around taking me where I want to go.. no trespassing...not on private property.. no comparison.. nice try though...
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:21:57
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
We (PFSC) already had the resolution about Sundays (twice I believe) at the clubs and convention.. sunday hunting LOST... PERIOD.... get over it....
Nothing personal, Doc. No need to go there. Sportsmen should be able to civilly discuss matters that affect us. Sheesh. Wonder why folks are so divided.
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:24:44
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"The green Elders" of Penn Fed have decided for you dpms. How dare you challenge the ruling! lol.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/14 12:25:30
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bassboatbill
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:36:00
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AGAIN...its not about adding a sunday as a "huntable" day right off the bat...its about who should regulate hunting seven days of the week...WOW...SOMEONE is looking way beyond the issue at hand here!
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dpms
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:43:43
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he can challenge all he wants. that is his right.. I respect him stating and going for what he believes in.. I think we worked well on the crossbow issue.. we just dis-agree on this one.. I just wanted to say the PFSC members have already taken their stand and I'm not asking for that to change at all..... it's not "green elders" they get one vote .. .. it's GRASS ROOTS club members gene.. I did NOT mean that "get over it" at you personally.. sorry you took it that way.. I just meant I do not believe anyone is going to tackle changing it.. so let it be.... so I hate to do this but I'll ask because to me it is at the HEART of the subject.. so ARE you and the folks you want to follow your lead saying you are willing to risk, by pushing someone (politics or PGC)to make the change for "what ever reason" you want to call it... knowing full well the threats of losing thousands and thousands of acres of hunting just to even POSSIBLY allow Sudany hunting... or changing who makes th edecision on Sunday hunting..... giving it to the PGC even if they do not move on it will get land posted.. the non-hunters know they then have lost control because their "VOTE" has nothing to do with it anymore = it's up to the PGC and we know what they'll do... really === it means that's much for one day ????
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/14 12:45:15
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:45:01
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"AGAIN...its not about adding a sunday as a "huntable" day right off the bat.." First, thats nothing more than your opinion of what may or may not happen, and mine differs. And im not willing to take that chance. Not when alot of other 'should have been common sense' things didnt materialize that way either. Many instances from within our nationally known "deer wars" come quickly to mind. Besides, even if you were correct about not "right away", what is there to say that in a few years down the line when they did decide to add sundays to deer...things arent even worse deerwise than now? I suggest waiting to cross that bridge till its crossable and its known that our direction will be a responsible one. ".its about who should regulate hunting seven days of the week...WOW...SOMEONE is looking way beyond the issue at hand here!" No, i dont believe in being shortsighted and only seeing the benefits of something when it comes to decision making.. I believe some are UNDER thinking it, and still others suport the deer extreme reduction decimation so understandably would not only support, but welcome that effect also if it were to come about as a result of adding sundays.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/14 12:54:20
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:54:22
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
so I hate to do this but I'll ask because to me it is at the HEART of the subject..
so ARE you and the folks you want to follow your lead saying you are willing to risk, by pushing someone (politics or PGC)to make the change for "what ever reason" you want to call it... knowing full well the threats of losing thousands and thousands of acres of hunting just to even POSSIBLY allow Sudany hunting... or changing who makes th edecision on Sunday hunting.....
giving it to the PGC even if they do not move on it will get land posted.. the non-hunters know they then have lost control because their "VOTE" has nothing to do with it anymore = it's up to the PGC and we know what they'll do...
really === it means that's much for one day ????
Thanks for asking. I believe it is the right thing to do, doc. These fears and assumptions have not held true anywhere in the forty states that allow their game agencies to fully regulate hunting. Sure I will not deny that some private property will get posted. With time, things will change when the boogeyman never arrives. Education is key. That is up to us and also up to the PGC to inform hunters and landowners on how they would approach the issue. I can understand folks that believe the PGC is not able to regulate hunting not supporting full regulatory control. I cannot understand opposition if you nbelieve the PGC is equipped to regulate hunting. It is far too easy for antis to interject their will when politicians regulate hunting.
post edited by dpms - 2011/03/14 12:58:35
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 12:57:24
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These fears and assumptions have not held true anywhere in the forty states that allow their game agencies to fully regulate hunting. Not one state in the nation has The "3-C's" trying to decimate the deer herd. Not one states management agency is trusted less. Not one other state has such a controversial "deer war", and not one other state has so high a level of hunter dissent. Id say that those are extreme circumstances and worthy of "special considerations" at the very least among legislative decision making.
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 13:00:20
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I can understand why you are opposed, Wayne.
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DarDys
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 13:04:18
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
Yes I fish on Sundays and I disturb NO ONE.... no shouting, no shooting , no ATVs running around taking me where I want to go.. no trespassing...not on private property..
no comparison.. nice try though...
Really? Ask those that own private property that streams and rivers run through if there is no disturbance from shouting, littering, blocking driveways, leaving gates open, trespassing, etc. on Sundays I'll give you the no shooting. Since gamelands and state/national forests are not private property, what is the issue if there was a disturbance? By the way, no ATV's there either. So there is a comparison. A very close one. But even if there weren't, what happened to your religious arguement concerning a day of rest? Is it a selective religion that says we should rest from hunting only on Sundays, but we need no rest from fishing, or shopping, or eating out, or anything else, just hunting? How about those that have to work Sundays to support those activities (which you are probably a part of since you work retail), do they not get Sunday as a day of rest? You know Doc, like you, I wear glasses. The difference is mine seem to correct my myopic view of things and yours seem to make you even more near and short sighted.
post edited by DarDys - 2011/03/14 13:09:51
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 13:06:08
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Education is key. I agree. And for those yearning for knowledge and truth, Id suggest starting here: EDUCATION ON PA DEER
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 13:08:58
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I can understand why you are opposed, Wayne. Even if you dont "share" in my "conspiracy theories" dpms, im surprised that you spoke previously of being concerned about the antler restriction changes and 55,000 tags would do to our buck here, and also didnt seem to care for the fact we have a ridiculous modern day low buck harvest here. So now all of the sudden you no longer care and wish to add even more buck harvest by adding sundays?? Remember there is no "allocation" to adjust for buck either.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/14 13:10:22
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 14:29:36
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
Even if you dont "share" in my "conspiracy theories" dpms, im surprised that you spoke previously of being concerned about the antler restriction changes and 55,000 tags would do to our buck here, and also didnt seem to care for the fact we have a ridiculous modern day low buck harvest here. So now all of the sudden you no longer care and wish to add even more buck harvest by adding sundays?? Remember there is no "allocation" to adjust for buck either.
Yes, I am concerned about decreasing antlered harvests in 2A in addition to the proposed changes this coming fall. I have also not said that I am in favor of adding Sundays to deer seasons. Again, supporting regulatory control by the PGC does not necessarily equate to all in for Sunday's. There is no obligation to add any.
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 14:45:02
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I guess im just having an extremely hard time buying that this is all supporters of this wanting PGC to continue NOT permitting sunday hunting as opposed to currently legislators being the ones NOT permitting sunday hunting. And i think it fair to say that the majority that would want sunday hunting, couldnt care less who they got it from. And giving pgc another option to kill more deer may not be "obligating" them to use it, but its about like throwing meat to a dog. Utilizing it would be an automatic almost involuntary reaction!lol
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/14 14:49:55
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World Famous
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/03/14 15:01:18
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I believe it is a valid arguement that Sunday hunting may cause some loss of hunting grounds. The landowner still has the right to say "no hunting on Sundays" on his property though, like a lot of areas are off limits now to fishing on Sundays. IMO, HR has done wonders in getting a lot of land posted for NO hunting either through " I need a spot for my family to hunt that still has deer" to installing QDMA on lands by farmers. I would be for Sunday hunting,myself, and let the land owners decide for themselves...WF
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