I'am predicting there will be some easing up on the doe killing in 2F and 2G and the DMAP tags will be included in the doe license allocations rather than on top of them. Besides that not much for increasing the herd.

no reaction here, I don't shoot does.  Haven't since the EHD, we are probably at about 60 % the deer numbers from before, which is odd, because a lot of other people who had it hit, have back like 90 % of the deer.  I think the neighbors are hard on the does.

I dont plan on shooting anymore PA does, probably ever.  Maybe a bean fed little piglet baby doe in OH, but def. not one where I hunt in Pa. 

I will continue to shoot legal bucks though.  Not the first one I see, but when bow season draws close to an end, I get less picky.  No big deal.  I haven't rifle hunted Pa in 3 years.  F that S.  May never again, until there is a real giant running around that I may have an opportunity at.

I do however hunt WV with a bow, no gun, and I hunt Ohio bow and muzzleloader.

Here is a novel approach.  if you have lots of deer, shoot a doe, if you dont see many deer, dont shoot a doe.  Pretty illogical, I know. 
I'm just Jaggin'.  Do what you want.

ORIGINAL: tippecanoe

no reaction here, I don't shoot does.  Haven't since the EHD, we are probably at about 60 % the deer numbers from before, which is odd, because a lot of other people who had it hit, have back like 90 % of the deer.  I think the neighbors are hard on the does.

 
Our area was hit hard too tippie and we are back to about 80%.  If you are only up to about 60%, one of two things are occuring.  Does are being shot at a good rate or the habitat is not up to snuff and the coyotes are able to keep a slight check on fawns.
 
One thing to consider Tippie is we realized pretty quick how beneficial lower deer numbers are compared to what they were before EHD.  The deer themselves are heavier on average.  Our group has decided to try to keep the numbers were they are at now which is a decrease from before EHD.  We took some does this past season for the first time in three years. 

There are definitely fewer deer in the area of 2A that I hunt since EHD. Our area got hit pretty good. But there are still more than I see in 2F and they didn't even have EHD.

Dr.

Hate to correct you but it was one and done until 87-88
this comes from the PGC website.

1987 - Bonus deer program adopted for Southeastern Special Regulations Area counties giving hunters with appropriate licenses the chance to take two deer in one license year. At least one of the two deer must be antlerless.

1988 - Bonus deer program implemented statewide giving hunters with appropriate licenses the chance to take two deer in one license year. One of the two deer must be antlerless.

1990 - Hunters may buy two bonus licenses, which will permit them to harvest of up to three deer. Two of the three deer must be antlerless.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=587767&mode=2

Additionally I think the DMAP will be included in the antlerless allocation, but still a seperate purchase, as was reccomended by WMI.

ORIGINAL: dpms

Our area was hit hard too tippie and we are back to about 80%.  If you are only up to about 60%, one of two things are occuring.  Does are being shot at a good rate or the habitat is not up to snuff and the coyotes are able to keep a slight check on fawns.

One thing to consider Tippie is we realized pretty quick how beneficial lower deer numbers are compared to what they were before EHD.  The deer themselves are heavier on average.


DPMS,

Pretty interesting observations, I would say you probably hit the nail on the head with both those reasons.  My folks only own 10 acres, although, I get to hunt one of the neighbors properties, and it has about 50 more so lets say about 50 acres of huntable land(about 10 being long driveways, and yards. )

The other neighbors bought their property about 5 years ago, and they have been hard on the does.  That property was also logged before they bought it, so it is very thick, and great coyote habitat, I hear them often when I am at the folks in the evening.

I haven't really noticed much of a size difference in the deer size, I would say the food is pretty much the same as before.  The eat hay in fields at night, and browse on the thick stuff during the day.  Not many real crops, but not real bad habitat either.  About the same as it has always been.

I do see more 2.5 year old bucks(the reasonably skinny racked 14.5 inch wide, 8pts)  I would much rather see them then what I saw before AR(spike-4 pt, ear width, 1.5y.o.)  I guess it is just the difference in "micro-habitats."  I agree with some that AR isn't making monster bucks, but I dont think that is what is was supposed to do.  There has always and always will be a few monsters running around, but they are the smart ones, and they only get killed by luck, or someone who does a crapload of homework who also happens to be a little lucky. 

When the EHD hit, it was so localized, it was truly bizarre.  I also hunt a good friend of mines grandmothers farm, and it has more deer then before the EHD, and I don't think they lost a one that year.  Did you guys notice the same thing?
 

"When the EHD hit, it was so localized, it was truly bizarre."

Wasnt all that "localized" here...maybe on the outskirt areas of the "epicenter". Though i had heard at the time that in some areas in had been hit or miss. But right in the heart of it in northwestern Greene, there were dead deer on just about every farm we checked in several mile area. Some maybe 50% losses....others probably upwards of 80 or 90.... On a couple of joining large properties it was VERY hard to find a track the first year, or to see any deer in the area while spotting other than an occaissinal one or two and some nights ZERO.


But yeah, there were alot of areas spared throughout the wmu....Still didnt mean there wasnt very appreciable losses. Thankfully although its taken a while here in these parts the herd is on its way back but need to get rid of the ridiculous 55k tags and go to reasonable levels. When we were supposedly decreasing our all time high herd in this wmu we had 10-20 thousand less tags than we do now that we have half the deer thanks to herd reduction and the goal now is supposely stabilization!! We need an allocation tweak that doesnt look to be coming.

ORIGINAL: wayne c

"Bro, I can remember when there were 10 times as many deer in 2F as there was in 2A."

I never said the deer herd wasnt mismanaged previously. I think most agree that to some extent it was. But currently the attempt is to grossly overcompensate. No way should 2f or 2g have higher deer densities than 2a. Although its not the case, if that would be the case then one or both are being grossly mismanaged.

If , by mismanaged, you mean that it was two weeks od buck followed by three days of doe, and one and done, you are right, The whole state was mismanaged. But back then, deer were way more numerous up north than they were down in the southern part of the state. When I was a kid, it was almost unheard of to see a deer in the area where I lived, which was 2B. Now, 2B is pretty populated. If you wanted to get a deer back in the 70s, the areas that are now 2F and 2G were THE place to go. You only went to 2A to hunt rabbits and ringnecks.

"I was thinking localized as in Nineveh was totally wiped out, while Allepo-New Freeport still had all their deer. Not so much localized as in farm-to-farm."

In that case, i agree completely Tippe. I thought you were referring to farm to farm. I heard some trying to minimize the event by saying it was VERY localized and on a farm to farm basis on another site when this first happened. I just had to shake my head and laugh. lol

If , by mismanaged, you mean that it was two weeks od buck followed by three days of doe, and one and done, you are right, The whole state was mismanaged.

I wasnt trying to single out any one or two practices but speaking in general, but id agree that those examples arent my idea of ideal management practices. Thing i was speaking of as far as mismanagement was that there were too many deer in many areas....And now theyve overcompensated.

But back then, deer were way more numerous up north than they were down in the southern part of the state. When I was a kid, it was almost unheard of to see a deer in the area where I lived, which was 2B. Now, 2B is pretty populated. If you wanted to get a deer back in the 70s, the areas that are now 2F and 2G were THE place to go. You only went to 2A to hunt rabbits and ringnecks.

Yeah, some of the units were much different back then especially habitatwise. But now they are what they are and i dont see that changing anytime soon for the foreseeable future. It also doesnt matter what we have now, had previously or will have in the future, because we could kill every deer in a unit, but that wouldnt mean the unit couldnt hold any deer. And a unit can be well above or well below its carrying capacity. Fact is some units have a MUCH higher carry capacity due to many factors. Mountainous mature forests just arent gonna and shouldnt hold a ton of deer. Im not convinced the numbers have to be what they are currently there and there isnt room for herd increase, but its 100% out of the question to expect there to be the same numbers as the very best areas of the state. Thats also highlighted by the fact some areas are 4 pt others 3 ar due to differences in growth rate.

I had no problem killing a doe in a 2 day(gun) season,that most of you don't even know about,had no problem in a three day season,( and bonus tags)and the two week season could just get down right ugly if I was a (poacher)I saw deer everyday that I could have killed. If you hunt all season,bow,gun.and flint and can't kill a doe,you should take up another hobby.I say 3-5 day gun season would be ok,and reduce tags,some of the mountain counties,should consider a complete shout down but that's not going to happen.A one tag per hunter would be ok with me,if hunter used better judgement as to where to kill(like if your hunting a area that your seeing tons of does daily,it's the place to shoot one,if your hunting somewhere a see 3 does all week.I think you may want to kill your doe somewhere else.

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr

Sound commentary Big Tuna. If deer hunters really wanted the PGC's attention, the answer would not be boycotting license purchase, it would be to stop shooting does for a year. A self imposed ban on doe harvest would be an attention grabber without fincancially strapping the pgc.

 
I also agree that this is a sound commentary.
 
But here is the flaw -- "If you hunt all season,bow,gun.and flint and can't kill a doe,you should take up another hobby."
 
70% of PA hunters are NOT bow hunters and even less are flint hunters.  They are gun hunters only.  And the majority of them do not hunt all season, they hunt 1 - 4 days. 
 
Ask the guy that gets to hunt 2 days per year and kills a deer every 3-4 years to pass on killing one that is deemed legal by the PGC and possibly go another 3-4 years before they get another opportunity and they will tell you to sit on the future.
 
And if the attitude is to demonize and eliminate those ranks by telling them they are not worthy and to find another hobby, be prepared for the financial collapse of the PGC upon their departure from the sport and its absorption into DCNR where hunters will be relegated to red haired stepchild status.

ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr

Sound commentary Big Tuna. If deer hunters really wanted the PGC's attention, the answer would not be boycotting license purchase, it would be to stop shooting does for a year. A self imposed ban on doe harvest would be an attention grabber without fincancially strapping the pgc.

I also agree that this is a sound commentary.

But here is the flaw -- "If you hunt all season,bow,gun.and flint and can't kill a doe,you should take up another hobby."

70% of PA hunters are NOT bow hunters and even less are flint hunters.  They are gun hunters only.  And the majority of them do not hunt all season, they hunt 1 - 4 days. 

Ask the guy that gets to hunt 2 days per year and kills a deer every 3-4 years to pass on killing one that is deemed legal by the PGC and possibly go another 3-4 years before they get another opportunity and they will tell you to sit on the future.

And if the attitude is to demonize and eliminate those ranks by telling them they are not worthy and to find another hobby, be prepared for the financial collapse of the PGC upon their departure from the sport and its absorption into DCNR where hunters will be relegated to red haired stepchild status.

Exactly! Those casual, weekend hunters are in the vast majority! Those are the guys that pay the PGCs bills. The PGC ignores those guys at its own peril!

"hunters will be relegated to red haired stepchild status"

I think that pretty much describes about where we are at CURRENTLY.

ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: Ironhed

And if the attitude is to demonize and eliminate those ranks by telling them they are not worthy and to find another hobby, be prepared for the financial collapse of the PGC upon their departure from the sport and its absorption into DCNR where hunters will be relegated to red haired stepchild status.

And those that fall under your category will still find a deer and kill it.

Ironhed

I don't understand your statement.

Do you mean me personally?

No, not you personally.
I'm talking about the mockery in your last post.

Ironhed

Ironhed

MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY!

LOL.