ORIGINAL: salmotrutta

ORIGINAL: dadeeo66

Would a sink tip line be considered added weight? If so, that would restrict the leader/tippet section to 4' from the end of the sink tip?

I would say no, but with a sink tip you need a short leader to control your drift/eliminate drag. Right?

 
I'm fairly new to the fly fishing discipline, so I'm unfamiliar with the mechanics of sink tips. A friend suggested I might use one in faster water. It appears I have quite a bit more to learn. 

dadee066,

Ideally sink tips aare fished across and down.  The idea is your fly gets deep and swings below the fly line.  This allows you to use heavier then normal leaders, because the fly is present before the fish sees the leader.

2-4 ft is the normal distance for a leader.  Normally straight mono, but some times a short taper is needed.  Longer leader are used when you want the fly to come off the bottom up into the water colum. Sometimes a 1-3ft piece of floating fly line is attached to the sink tip to help bring the fly up.  This is normally used in slower or rock filled pools.

Remember if your no catching bottom your not where 90% of the fish are

You will find players at all points of the water column. The deeper you go the more resting non players are in the mix but there are still willing biters on the bottom. As the water cools into winter the large majority of biters are on bottom and it is the rare fish coming up into the upper column. Metabolism dictates they stay at the bottom where the current is slowed by friction and or behind boulders breaking the flow. My therory anyways. Comments welcome.

Your comments truly aren't theory...they are what actually happens...not only in the rivers but in the lake as well. Hunting fish...or very active fish are not on bottom by any means, yet as some have stated, bottom holding fish will eat. In cold water...many more fish access the bottom....not only because of their metabolic makeup, but the water is a fraction warmer on bottom. 39 degree water is the heaviest water...and sinks to the bottom,...so while we are standing in 33 degree water in the winter...a 10 foot pool near bottom might actually be 34 or 35 degress...or even a bit warmer. More so this situation in the lake itself.
 
Sink tips are a great tool, for accessing fish at depths above the bottom, but heavier sink tips can also allow you to fish very near the bottom. Sink tips come...or can be made in many different sink rate configurations. So you can arm yourself with tips that run only a few feet below the surface to near bottom...and anywhere in between.
 
The key to successfully running sink tips and finding active fish in say water temps from the high 30's and above is understanding the current conditions as it relates to hydraulics of the flow that day. The dynamics of the force of the flow and which sink rate will get you into the right strike zone is purely a series of stepping through progressions.
 
in Water temps in the high to low 30's...I start fishing close to bottom...and work my way up to lighter tips...due to the fact that probably more fish will be located lower in the water column.
 
In water temps from 40 to 60 degrees...I'll personally start with lighter tips and work my way heavier...to find a zone where active players are hunting. So you'll carry tips with sink rates from intermediate...and say 3" per second...mid water tips in the 5 to 8" sink rate per second, and then the heavy stuff that will take you to the bottom.
 
Mono leaders are never longer thne 5 feet for me...and most of the time 3 to 4 feet. The deep dredging tips, I'm running 2 to 3 feet. I like tippets no less then 15 pounds...because of the savage strikes.....I tend to become attached to the flies I tie...and hate to lose them on the strike...if a fish beats me after he's hooked...so be it. But players are NOT line shy...an active fish will hit your fly tied to a ship anchor line.
 
Casting and mending plus the river hydraulics that day all come into play when positioning that swing...so you have to step through the progressions of placing your across and down stream cast, and mend to get the fly ahead of the gear.....
 
When you figure it out...the takes willl light you up...because they are full of energry......It's a fun way to fish...and rewarding when you figure out the fish for that day...and the river, and the sink rate, and the fly they like...

Steelie Starter...if the water is at 185...you won't need sink tips....or the very most an intermediate tip...if you are truly targeting Atlantic Salmon ....stay up top....swing more drab colors like light and dark browns (Muddler's...Matuka's)....Olive's and blacks...and sometimes white.....
 
Not to say you should never use the bright stuff...but you definately want the more native/natural colors of flies for the Atlantic Salmon.
 
The Salmon River other then places like the Black hole is not a place that requires very heavy tips...most depths are in the 3 to 5 foot range. In the dead of winter you can get down on the bottom...but this time of year...I'd not be running tips at all....unless the water was 750 or greater....just my .02

Quite often very active fish will be on bottom but being active they will come up through the water column to take a fly fished in the surface film.
In the late 70s fishing water running 150-175cfs in Oct I fished pools filled with 100+ steelheads,50+ degree water, on what is now the lower portion of the DSR(fresh from the lake that morning) and rarely saw them suspended just under the surface. They were holding, as best they could with all the competition from other fish, on bottom and either behind boulders, along shelves, or in slight depressions. They would greedily attack from there(they were definate players) right up to the surface but they were primarily holding on bottom.

Great points everyone.
I purchased a quad tip line last winter that I intend to experiment with this fall. I guess it could be a good tool to search through the water colomn.
I don't use indies and Ditch- wet flies= me. May be why you catch more than me, but I'm having fun, and I'm not lining fish.

So what makes indie fishing better than sink tip, bottom bouncing, or any other (legal) method? Since I have never indie fished I don't get the advantages of it. They are pretty much taboo where I live.

Bunnyleach- great response. I couldn't agree more. We all have our favorite methods.
I am a user of the wet fly swing. I have the book written by Wood (Jock Scott) titled "Greased Line Fishing For Salmon". While it is not a fool proof method, it works. It is a traditional method for Salmon in Europe, and more recently steelheading (primarily on the West Coast). Of coarse they aren't useing silk/gut, but the method remains the same.

great stuf guys to me swinging flyes is the way to go, althogh I'm been lukier cactching steelhead than chinooks on the swing but two years ago caugt two kings on floatign line on the staircase pool I'll be fishing the last week of august hope for rain the next week and some chinooks move in they come big brigth and strong it doesn't feel that they turn on the fly like steelhead do anybody have some theory about how chinooks take a swung fly vrs steelhead. hows that, spey casting coming along matyD

Hey Lucky,
 
I also use a BB or 2BB's particularily in the winter time. Had nothing to do with the rule change, but fully support the DEC's decision to go with no weight in the flyzones. If they want to go with no weight at all (as you suggested "the Boquet rule"), I have absolutely no problem with it and would welcome it!
 
I am not trying to start a debate here, but this is a change, which is long overdue for these areas of the SR. I am also interested on the enforcement, but that will be seen here in another month.
 
Learn to cast, learn the correct presentation and the rest will fall into place.

Your right PA. No change in 2007 after 8/15/07

Thanks for the help Ditch. Yet another method for some to learn...

Grease line is a great read. I use the same tech fishing shot and wet tips. Trying to swim the fly through the holding water while keeping it sideways across current giving the fish the best view.
Ditch my friend,when I am fishing tips I am rarely shotgunning. I am trying to, by reading the water, place my fly precisely where I want it. I am not fishing the river I am fishing a seam or a pocket behind a rock or someplace else that should hold a fish and I expect to put my fly within inches of that fishes face. Fishing is, and I know you'll agree, all about ones ability to read water and know where fish will locate themselve in it.

Thanks to 9WT for starting this thread.
I've gotta take my hat off to you all for giving up things freely that takes years of experiance to aquire on your own. There really are many methods to find the same end result.
It's nice to see so many of these methods being discussed to some point all in the same thread.
While it's understandable that some aren't happy with the new laws- we must learn to adapt. It's part of life.
Thanks again all for the great insight, and keep it coming!