9 WT
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FZ new regs
regarding added weight, looks like the new regs apply to the summer months only, right?
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Gottumguide
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/06 12:40:57
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right now- Between May 1 and August 15, no supplemental weight shall be placed on the leader, tippet or fly line. from- http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/31420.html it looks like after 08 it will be in both zone year round or at least you won't be able to use supplemental weight to propel ur line
Drift boat guiding/chartering the Salmon River/Lake Ontario and since 1990. NYS guide lic # 1032 www.salmonriverguide.com
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salmotrutta
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/06 20:38:41
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Oh No. Not the new Regs......
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pafisher
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/06 23:40:36
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More regs and they still allow lifting to go on right in front of them,I've seen it.
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MattyD.
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/07 08:28:31
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Pafisher -
Us old-timers :) like to call it YANKING!
See you in October!
Fish Off -
MattyD.
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bunnyleach
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/09 22:52:24
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Well!!! Like i said before this regulation it's bee long over due, it's just too bad that it won't be year round, I know that some (the instate gratification type of guy) may not like this but I know this would have many positive effects on the long run... and who knows... maybe this new reg would make better anglers.
It's like Artie Spey ones told me... ones you catch a fish on the swing that's all you'd ever want to do, and boy... was he right...of course you are only targeting a very small percent of the fish and unmolested fish is a must... that's why i think this new regs are faaaaaaaaaaaaaaantastic... hihihi
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salmotrutta
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/10 00:38:33
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WTF happened to Artie Spey? I miss the jokes.
post edited by salmotrutta - 2007/08/10 00:42:57
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9 WT
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/10 07:22:08
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So thats the difference between added weight to the line and a sinking tip? The way I read the proposed regs a sinking tip would be a violation. But if it isn't then the problem fisherman will just switch to using them, period. This rule, yet another, will not have the desired effect.
First of all what is so untraditional about using (adding) weight when flyfishing? I've fished with many die-hard flyfisherman who do add some weight to properly present the fly. I just don't understand this.
I could sit on the bridge all day every day this season and maybe see the DEC a handful of times, maybe. Thats how, and why some do what they do.
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MattyD.
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/10 08:05:06
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Personally - I like the idea of no split shot in these zones. It will begin to promote swinging flies which may or may not be carried to other parts of the river... Fish Off... MattyD.
post edited by MattyD. - 2007/08/10 08:13:56
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MattyD.
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/10 08:12:14
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9wt -
Don't think about it as Traditional .vs Untraditional....
I think (and I don't know for certain) the idea is to allow the fish to remain on the beds and not be disturbed as much by anglers. The way I look at it, it is much tougher (as a method) to swing a fly using a sink tip and get it into the strike zone, compared to C&D using added split shot. So, when you introduce the new regs, you will find the fish are less agitated and there will be less of a kill of fish do to bad releases in these zones.
That is my thought/theory on the new regs...
Fish Off...
MattyD.
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tommybanzai
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/10 09:32:09
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i noticed a lot of you are going late september - first week of october. Do the runs start a little earlier out east vs. western lake o? i've been going 2nd week/weekend in october - last weekend in october to western tribs for salmon runs, and seem to do fairly well. I guess it's just that Salmon river trips you guys are planning catches me second guessing myself. 
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jlh42581
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/10 11:26:52
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Just tie yourself some big ole stones and put a ****-ton of non toxic weight inside it. Do they also say no tungsten beads on the fly?? They sink quickly.
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spoonchucker
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/10 20:34:03
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Yes,
Let's make illegal to fish any way other than the way WE choose to fish.
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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salmotrutta
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/11 02:32:03
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ORIGINAL: tommybanzai
i noticed a lot of you are going late september - first week of october.
Do the runs start a little earlier out east vs. western lake o?
i've been going 2nd week/weekend in october - last weekend in october
to western tribs for salmon runs, and seem to do fairly well.
I guess it's just that Salmon river trips you guys are planning catches
me second guessing myself.
TB- The Salmon will be there in good numbers from Sept. through the end of Oct.. When mother nature tells them to run "it's on". Is a guessing game for the most part. Looking at water and air temps., rain or lack of, Etc.. Some guys go early due to the fact that there has been a great Coho run in the end of Sept. (that I always seem to miss). My dad caught one last year. All I saw of them was the ones stacked up at the hatchery. There has also been a good number of Browns and Steel coming into the river along with the early Salmon. A shot at fresh Salmon, Steel, and Browns is a great enticer. In my experiance the peak for Kings is the week of Columbus Day. Perhaps a little before, but Columbus Day= a great time for Kings in my book. The last weekend of Oct. there are some around, but they are mostly done and what you'll more than likely see is spawned out black dying Salmon. This is the time when Steelheaders begin to get serious...
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salmotrutta
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/11 02:36:43
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Special Regulations for the Salmon River (Oswego County) Fly Fishing Catch-And-Release Areas Location Two stream sections between County Route 52 Bridge in Altmar and the Lighthouse Hill Reservoir. Fishing Hours, Season Dates & Boundaries Angling permitted: from 1/2 hour before sunrise to one-half hour after sunset. Trespassing prohibited at night. Lower Fly Section: September 15 through May 15. From County Route 52 bridge in Altmar upstream .25 miles to the marked boundary at Beaverdam Brook. Upper Fly Section: April 1 through November 30. From a marked boundary upstream of the New York State Salmon River Fish Hatchery property to marked boundary approximately 0.6 miles upstream at the Lighthouse Hill Reservoir tailrace. Regulations Catch & Release: All fish must be released without unnecessary injury.
Tackle Restrictions: Tackle is restricted to a traditional flyrod, flyreel and flyline.
Flies: A single unweighted or weighted artificial fly having one hook point with a one-half inch maximum gap. A weighted fly may have no more than a one-eighth ounce added weight. Leaders: The total length of the leader including the tippet shall not exceed 15 feet.
Additional Weight: Between August 15 and April 30 of the following year, the maximum distance between the artificial fly and any added weight to the line, leader or tippet shall not exceed four feet. Between May 1 and August 15, no supplemental weight shall be placed on the leader, tippet or fly line. At any time during the year, weight shall not be added to the line, leader, swivels or artificial fly in any manner such that the weight hangs lower than the attached fly when the line or leader is suspended vertically from the rod. ***All that is changing is they want to stop the chuck and duck in the fly zones. Added weight is still allowed (except in the summer as always). The new rule will about propelling the cast with the fly rod and line instead of a bunch of shot. I'm sure we all know about what that means. *****It will still be legal to use weight- more than enough to get into the strike zone. ****Remember- it doesn't take much weight if you are making good casts, and mending to ensure good drifts. I don't think it's anything we need to get too wound up about- unless some of us chuck and duck- then by all means get ****ed and rant to the DEC.
post edited by salmotrutta - 2007/08/11 03:00:54
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9 WT
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/11 08:45:50
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The DEC can't even enforce the existing rules and now we expect them to determine if the line is propelling the cast or if it's caused by any added weight? How in the world will the figure that out? The amount of weight needed is more of a function of water flows, depth and how much space you have to work with.
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racinray
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/11 10:24:49
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One rule I always wondered about and seems kinda unclear,if you make your own lead core/sink tips does the 4 foot rule come into effect from the front part of the sink tipto the hook or starting from the rear.?Or are they legal on the salmon.Also flies I know a moe egg/glue I think is legal if it has thread build and some sort of addition as in a veil/yarn or whatever,what about pom poms glued right on by them selves??Same thoughts on shooting heads on running line???LOL....Thinking about too much this morning..Just thinking of trying a few different things this fall.Ray
la Fish Hog 
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Foxfire
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/11 13:30:15
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Ray,
With any sink tip, you do not want to use a leader over 4 to 5 feet long. You will not be able to control the drift of your fly. As for your flies, I am not sure about gluing pompom balls onto a hook.
As for the regs, its about time. The DEC will be able to tell simply by people who are not casting, lobbing an excessive amount of weight or seeing the kablunt of weight. Its not real difficult to tell.
As for the enforcement, keep in mind that 2 officers patrol the river year round. The DEC sends in more officers during salmon season, but as we all know (and have aired our frustrations over) is that this is a band aide on a cut artery. All I do know is that I would not to get a summons for doing something which I know is wrong.
I also realize that the reg is not fair to the nymph fisherman who casts a fly rod with very minimal added weight. The DEC had to draw a line some where and made it no added weight for the flyzones.
People who actually want to learn to fly fish, will adapt to this rule change.
Learn to cast, learn the correct presentation and the rest will fall into place
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Ditchrat
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/11 20:27:20
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ORIGINAL: MattyD.
Personally - I like the idea of no split shot in these zones. It will begin to promote swinging flies which may or may not be carried to other parts of the river...
Fish Off...
MattyD.
Right swinging flies, so guys can use sink tips and 15ft leaders to run a cloths line across the whole pool and not just 4 ft at a time
Ditch Ignorance is not a crime, let someone stay ignorant should be 
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salmotrutta
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/12 00:50:28
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ORIGINAL: Ditchrat
Right swinging flies, so guys can use sink tips and 15ft leaders to run a cloths line across the whole pool and not just 4 ft at a time Thanks for the post Ditch! 
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Ditchrat
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/12 07:37:09
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Thanks for the post Ditch!
I guess you dont spend much time on the river, to know that is a huge problem and people are abusing the 15ft leader law too 
Ditch Ignorance is not a crime, let someone stay ignorant should be
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salmotrutta
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/13 00:34:17
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All I said was thanks for the post. Chill. It's ok to be nice. 
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Ditchrat
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/13 17:30:32
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ORIGINAL: salmotrutta
All I said was thanks for the post. Chill. It's ok to be nice.
That was me being nice. Here is unnice  LOL
Ditch Ignorance is not a crime, let someone stay ignorant should be
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pafisher
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/13 20:52:37
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Your theory is all wet Matt,it has nothing to do with disturbing their spawning(Salmon).
This new reg that is supposed to go into effect in 2008 is going to be a riot to watch them try to enforce.....what will be a legal cast?
They have enough regs now that they are n't enforcing,but lets add some more.
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salmotrutta
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/14 00:37:52
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ORIGINAL: Ditchrat
That was me being nice.
Here is unnice LOL
And here's you being ****! LMAO!  Sorry Ditch, couldn't resist.
post edited by salmotrutta - 2007/08/14 01:18:04
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dadeeo66
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/14 13:26:12
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Would a sink tip line be considered added weight? If so, that would restrict the leader/tippet section to 4' from the end of the sink tip?
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onecoldfoot
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/14 15:43:19
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gone
post edited by onecoldfoot - 2007/08/14 17:23:50
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salmotrutta
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/15 00:25:39
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ORIGINAL: dadeeo66
Would a sink tip line be considered added weight? If so, that would restrict the leader/tippet section to 4' from the end of the sink tip?
I would say no, but with a sink tip you need a short leader to control your drift/eliminate drag. Right?
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waDerboy 
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/15 04:14:58
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Yes Truttra assuming one was fishing for them. Onecoldfoot what happened to your post? Is it in the words of Nixon spokesman Ron Ziegler no longer operational?
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onecoldfoot
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RE: FZ new regs
2007/08/15 09:00:31
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My post was aboout calling the DEC in Albany about the proposed regulations. I was trying to find them on the website. There is no mention of it anywhere on there new website. The man from DEC said they where working on something in the proposal because the law didn't match up to the reg. I couldn't get a straight or cohernt anwser from him so I decided to delete my post as it wasn't straight or cohert to me either after doing more research on the web.
I'm still looking for any mention of it in either the fishing laws or somewhere on the DEC website and have not found any set dates as to when this is going to occur. People keep saying that its definite but I can't see where it is.
On a side note, he talked very much about when they do these proposals they do not like to step on anyones toes and want to keep people happy. If they feel as though it there will be any discontent to the status quo they usually will not pursue things. The biggest group wins.
The one thing that irks me as a resident of NY, is when people from out of state who use our resources and want to make changes to them. I don't care if you pay extra for your license, I don't think you sould have any say in our fisheries, take care of your own business in your own state and the residents of our state will decide what is best for us.
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