fishinpitt
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flyfishersparadise forum
I don't know if any of you guys have noticed yet but Fly Fishers Paradise has shut down there forum. I do not blame them for shutting it down, because sometimes people would take things too far on there. However, I will probably do most of my shopping at TCO now. I felt obligated to shop at Fly Fishers Paradise because I used their forum and it took them time to maintain it and it was an excellent source of information. Same for the shopping I do on the fishusa forum. It is only right that you support the company/store that provides these forums free of charge.
I feel TCO provides better customer service and the employees are much more pleasant most of the time. So for those reasons, I will be spending my money at TCO from now on. Does anybody else have any thoughts on this topic.
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SilverKype
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 12:45:51
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Yeah TCO is (at least was) affliated with Spring Ridge Club. Enough said about that.
Steve didn't have the time to babysit and I can't blame him. He's got enough going on in his life. Just because a forum shuts down, shouldn't mean you should just stop shopping there IMO. FFP shouldn't have to do without business because a few adults act like children on their forums.
TCO really has no clue what's going on in this area. Their hatch charts prove that claim.
Spruce Creek Outfitters, FFP, and fishusa always get my business.
Spruce Creek Fly Co. and TCO will not.
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jlh42581
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 13:15:46
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I like fly fishers, because those guys know what the hell they are talking about. They wont just sell you something for the sake of selling it. 
post edited by jlh42581 - 2007/08/01 17:40:57
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salmotrutta
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 16:55:44
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Hey guys- don't be afraid to give your opinion. LMAO!
I was never on that forum.
As far as shopping- I have enough stuff to last me and my family about 10 years.
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dano
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 17:51:36
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It doesn't bother me one bit that he shut down that FFP forum.
I quit visiting/posting there after the first couple of years.
Discussions/ Topics were slowly going downhill then but I guess it must have really gotten out of hand recently for him to shut it down.
Too bad.
I like the store and continue to shop there mainly because they seem to have exactly what I'm looking for.
I've never had a problem with any of the people there, either in person or over the phone.
As far as TCO, I stopped by there once and was not impressed.
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flyfishindave
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 21:47:19
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FFP will get my money fourm or not, shame it had to
shut down but they are a good bunch of guys & help
anyway they can. TCO & beavers group will not get
my money.
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fishinpitt
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 22:10:02
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Silverkype, If what you are saying is true about TCO being affiliated with Spring Ridge Trout club then I would have to agree with you. I'd like to know a little more about it, unless its just a rumor you heard floating around. Now to your second point. You must not have read my post too clearly. Shutting the forum down is not the only reason I am going to stop shopping there. I explained a few other reasons from customer service to there demeanor. Some of the employees there are great. Others are less than helpful and could care less about helping you. Previously I spent a good deal of money at FFP because I enjoyed the forum and I felt it was an added service they were providing besides the equipment I buy. With that added service gone I will now go to the place that provides the best customer service and is most knowledgable and likes to share their knowledge. Now for jlh, you should learn what you are talking about before you start making careless remarks. The guys at TCO definately "know what the hell they are talking about". For starters Paul Weamer lives on Penns Creek. He gives accurate reports daily. He is a professional fly tier for a variety of companies. He has also just published his first book. George Daniel who is another employee at TCO has won a wide variety of fly fishing competitions. Look both these guys up on http://www.tcoflyfishing.com/1StaffFav_Home_main.cfm. TCO also has the added benefit of having additional locations that are closer to other streams. I've been in there and asked Paul how the fishing is on the Little J and he calls the spruce creek TCO and they give very accurate up to the day reports. The biggest problem I have with FFP's reports are they are usually late with hatches starting. They won't post them on the board until they are well on there way. I WILL give the guys at FFP credit; most are very knowledgable. Jlh, I have no idea what you mean about TCO just trying to sell you something for the hell of it. There is many times where I stop in there after work just to shoot the breeze with them and they are never trying to sell me something just to sell me something. Any suggestions that they made that I have tried have worked. There is many times when I stop at TCO where I feel like I am getting an entomolgy lesson from Paul. The guy knows everything about every sub species of fly. By now after this post you probably think the guys at TCO are giving me deals for talking them up or something. Thats not the case. Every time I walk in the store I just get the feeling that they honestly want me to become a better fisherman. Its not the same feeling I get when I come across a few people at FFP such as there self proclaimed "Bass Expert". There is no need for me to say his name because most people know him. Next time you walk into TCO see how fast one of their employees comes over to assist you and provide you with current information. Next go to FFP and see if the "bass expert" gets out of his chair.
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fishinpitt
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 22:11:33
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Could someone give me some type of documented proof of how TCO is affiliated with Beaver's crew? I would really like to know if these are valid statements or just rumors. I really do not get that impression from talking to the people at TCO.
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thedrake
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 22:14:01
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ORIGINAL: fishinpitt
I don't know if any of you guys have noticed yet but Fly Fishers Paradise has shut down there forum. I do not blame them for shutting it down, because sometimes people would take things too far on there. However, I will probably do most of my shopping at TCO now. I felt obligated to shop at Fly Fishers Paradise because I used their forum and it took them time to maintain it and it was an excellent source of information. Same for the shopping I do on the fishusa forum. It is only right that you support the company/store that provides these forums free of charge.
I feel TCO provides better customer service and the employees are much more pleasant most of the time. So for those reasons, I will be spending my money at TCO from now on. Does anybody else have any thoughts on this topic.
Don't support TCO. I've heard many people talk about an SRC affiliation. Plus, theres the fact that Eric Stoup who runs spruce creek fly co (a tco shop), who guides for Beaver. Dont believe me? Look at the 13th paragraph in this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/03/AR2005050301251_pf.html TCO had listed on their hatch board that size 8 slate drakes and size 12 sulphurs were hatching earlier this year. I shouldnt even have to say what is wrong with that. The guys at TCO have been telling everyone that they plan on putting FFP and Spruce Creek Outfitters out of business soon. I'm thinking they better at least learn our local hatches before they can even compete. I used to occasionally get on the FFP forum, but idiots like "rangerkeen" got on there and ruined it.
post edited by thedrake - 2007/08/01 22:20:02
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fishinpitt
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 22:19:53
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thedrake,
Any proof of those remarks, or just more hasty generalizations? Size 12 sulphurs...depends on the stream. I seen quite a few on little J that were definatley pushing size 14. Size 8 slate drakes sounds a little big but are you leaving out the fact that they said a range(size 8-12); thats what I remember seeing. Trust me they know the local hatches very well, and they are definatley right on when it comes to the little J. I find FFP's information from the J and penns is usually dated. I'll give FFP one thing, they are always right on with spring creek. It's not that tough though when spring creek does not even get half of the bugs that Penns and fishing creek does.
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thedrake
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 22:21:53
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ORIGINAL: fishinpitt
thedrake,
Any proof of those remarks, or just more hasty generalizations? Size 12 sulphurs...depends on the stream. I seen quite a few on little J that were definatley pushing size 14. Size 8 slate drakes sounds a little big but are you leaving out the fact that they said a range(size 8-12); thats what I remember seeing. Trust me they know the local hatches very well, and they are definatley right on when it comes to the little J. I find FFP's information from the J and penns is usually dated. I'll give FFP one thing, they are always right on with spring creek. It's not that tough though when spring creek does not even get half of the bugs that Penns and fishing creek does.
I just edited the post you just responded to. The proof is in the link I posted.
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woodnickle
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 22:27:48
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thedrake
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 22:28:57
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ORIGINAL: fishinpitt
thedrake,
Any proof of those remarks, or just more hasty generalizations? Size 12 sulphurs...depends on the stream. I seen quite a few on little J that were definatley pushing size 14. Size 8 slate drakes sounds a little big but are you leaving out the fact that they said a range(size 8-12); thats what I remember seeing. Trust me they know the local hatches very well, and they are definatley right on when it comes to the little J. I find FFP's information from the J and penns is usually dated. I'll give FFP one thing, they are always right on with spring creek. It's not that tough though when spring creek does not even get half of the bugs that Penns and fishing creek does.
Ephemerella Invaria to my knowledge, is the largest bug we commonly refer to as a "sulphur". It is never larger than a size 14. There are no size 8 slate drakes on the little J or anywhere else on our streams. Saying there are Isonychia of that size is misinformation, plain and simple.
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SilverKype
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 22:57:10
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FishinPitt,
This board has been through this many times, I'm sorry you missed it. Search the old board and you'll find pages upon pages about this. I'll give you two facts.
FACT: Donald Beavers son's marriage was in the Altoona mirror last year; stating his son was the owner of Spruce Creek Fly Company. Contact the Altoona Mirror.
FACT: I saw Joe McMullen tying flies at the Blair County Convention Center in Spruce Creek Fly Company's booth.
They are plenty of others, but I think that's enough .. along with the article drake posted above.
Also, grannoms don't go from 12-18 on the J. Stroup seems to think the grannoms last 4 weeks. The 16's and 18's are black caddis, not grannoms.
SCO and FFP know their stuff. Doug is not the most friendly person on this earth but they don't give out misinformation.
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fishinpitt
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 23:13:09
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I guess instead of trying to justify why they would say there was a size 8 slate drake or a size 12 sulphur i should have just gone and looked up some of the stuff they are reporting on there page. I'm not sure I ever seen them report a size 12 sulphur. The slate drakes they are reporting on http://www.tcoflyfishing.com/1sc_home.cfm are size 10/12. I can only speak from my personal experiences on both places because I am in both a decent amount of time and in the short time TCO(State College) has been present their reports are more accurate. Sounds like you guys are not big fans of them so I'm not sure how often you have been in to see their reports. I exclusively visit the State College TCO so maybe these reports you describe are coming from the Spruce Creek store? Regardless of everything I said above, if what you said is true about the affiliation between Beaver and TCO, then that is enough for me to stop purchasing from them. Before I do that though I'm going to talk to the guys at the State College TCO about their affiliation. If they tell me the same things you guys said then I will no longer be a customer.
post edited by fishinpitt - 2007/08/01 23:15:24
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SilverKype
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/01 23:38:05
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You'd get a heroin addict to admit to doing heroin before TCO would admit to being affilated with SRC. Why would they do that? It would make no sense from a business standpoint.
There were a couple fellas on here that even saw Donny with a TCO shirt on at the fly expo this year. I wasn't there so I can't confirm that.
I gave Spruce Creek Fly Co. a chance, I bought simms boots there and visited them a few times. Bill seemed to be honest but Eric was always ... well, who he is. Then I saw the newspaper marriage .. never went in again. THEN hearing people walk into Spruce Creek Outfitters and say "is this Donny's store" to Alan. Nah.. that's the one up the road. Well... enough.
Hell .. THEY (the ones you mentioned above) may not even know. I don't know. I talked to Tony (the owner of ALL TCO) about this and he denied it. He said the article from above was a misprint and refused to contact the Altoona Mirror.
SOMEBODY is not being honest, I doubt it's my own eyes and hears, the paper, and the article above, and a hundred other things. I'm not going to tell anyone where to shop but I'll tell you WHY I don't shop certain places.
I'll deal with Doug being crabby before I have someone lie to my face and support privatization of water. You know .. Tony told me TCO is 100% AGAINST privatization of water. Take a look at their site .. they've got miles of private water in New York. Why lie about that?? Maybe it was a "misprint." Just tell me the truth and we'll go our separate ways.
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jlh42581
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/02 09:35:20
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FishinPitt.... you need to stop smoking your own crack. In no way did I even MENTION TCO... I SAID I LIKE FLYFISHERS, THEY DONT SELL ME STUFF I DONT NEED!
Ive never walked into TCO and I never will. I dont care if they catch 100 world records. They will not get my buisness. Not solely because of the fact that I hear they are buddies with donald but because they had the BALLS to put another fly shop 1/2mile down the road from flyfishers. I was a flyfishers customer before TCO came, im certainly not going to stop giving them my buisness to give TCO business when they are a 1/2 mile away from fly fishers. Now, had they not been associated with Spruce Creek Fly Co. and had they put the shop somewhere other then right beside a shop I like, then yes I may buy something their. But they $hit in their own hand as far as Im concerned.
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SilverKype
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/02 12:04:58
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I forgot.. Drake, Doesn't TCO spruce creek state the little Juniata doesn't have a green drake hatch because of some bird? Swallows? That's just downright funny right there!! 
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kyler16
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/02 12:10:47
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Doug was always nice to me while I was in town and helped me out. the guys at TCO said it was goin to cost me over 40 dollars to fix my tip on my 4'6" 1-3 wt. While it took one of the younger guys 10 minutes and only cost $1.40. Then while I was up working in july for my uncle TCO told me never to even think of trying scuds they would scare the fish. While FFP said those are recommended year round I shouldnt have any trouble catching a few fish with them. TCO always seemed a bit more cocky and didnt want to help and out of towner. while FFP always made me feel welcomed especailly when I found out the one guy was from johnstown as well.
"If you kill it, eat it. If you eat it, cook it right." -Steve Rinella
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The_Dude
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/02 14:29:20
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ORIGINAL: kyler16
While I was up working in july for my uncle TCO told me never to even think of trying scuds they would scare the fish. While FFP said those are recommended year round I shouldnt have any trouble catching a few fish with them. TCO always seemed a bit more cocky and didnt want to help and out of towner. while FFP always made me feel welcomed
Scuds will scare the fish? Then these fish must live very scared, because Spring Creek is loaded with them! They are my number one producer on Spring, year round. I agree with jlh...the way I see it, TCO made a Wal-Mart move here is State College. Despite their hi-tech product pushing which I am not a fan of and the likely connection with SRC, all it took for me to not like them was the fact that they purposely moved in right on top of FFP.
I worked for Appalachian Ski and Outdoors for a bit, and the owner Jeff explained to me how they make a concious effort n ot to step on other local businesses' toes. For instance, they do not carry much water sport gear because that would be imposing on Tussey Mountain Outfitters, who specializes in that all the way over in Bellefonte, 10-15 miles away. EMS tried to open a store right next to ASO (who are not a chain like EMS), and the dedicated custome base of ASO pushed them out, thank God.
When busiensses do that, especially chain stores like EMS and now TCO, it is unethical. Give your competitor space, or even better, open out of their market area so that you are not competitors. These are not pizza shops, where two can exist in the same strip and do just as well as if there were only one. TCO did this on purpose to push out FFP when FFP refused to be bought out by them, from what I heard. The way I see it, they are doing exactly what Wal-Mart does to local businesses.
I did stop in TCO once on a Sunday because FFP was closed, and guess what...they didn't have what I needed. I build my own leaders, something that many dedicated fly fisherman do for a custom taper, and I needed more butt material, which is Maxima 20 lb. Not only were they out of stock, but they simply just don't carry anything that heavy. On top of that, the guy working there (blonde hair, mid thirties) didn't even seem to have a grasp on leader building. Steve, Dan and Doug at FFP not only introduced me to building my own leaders about 7 years ago, but taught me the importance and advantages of fine tuning it over the years. This is a perfect example of the difference between the two shops. One has the more expensive, hi-tech products and the Sunday hours, and the other has what I really need, and the knowledge. FFP has talked me out of more serious purchases then they have talked me into. That includes Doug, who I see some people have given a bad rap. How is that for customer service?
TCO can have the name droppers, competitive fisherman, the private club fisherman, and anyone who wants to be known in the fly fishing industry. FFP will get my business because I am not interested in the industry or who's who, I am interested in understanding what really works out there and enjoying time alone to myself on the stream.
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jlh42581
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/02 16:09:03
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Glad to see you finally made it over here tom.
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chrisrowboat
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/02 18:53:53
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I kind of liked Ranger's exploits and frequented the FFP board to read about them. A wealth/plethora of information was wiped out that sad day lasts week. FFP will still get my business, I have been very pleased with their style of business over the years. Chris
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thedrake
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/02 20:41:27
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ORIGINAL: SilverKype
I forgot..
Drake,
Doesn't TCO spruce creek state the little Juniata doesn't have a green drake hatch because of some bird? Swallows?
That's just downright funny right there!!
Yeah, I remember that. Of course they wouldnt know that the lack of green drakes is due to the flood a few years ago. Green drake nymphs are burrowers. They burrow in the silt. When the silt washed away during the flood, so did the green drake nymphs.
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SilverKype
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/02 22:12:08
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FishinPitt..
Let us know how you make out.
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fishinpitt
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/02 23:00:58
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Silverkype,
I will let you know. I don't see why they wouldn't tell me if they were affiliated with SRC. If they were aware enough to be afraid to tell me because they thought it would hurt there business... then I highly doubt they would even want to be affiliated with them in the first place. Paul Weamer seems like a fairly straight forward guy, but I'll see what he has to say. I will NOT buy a thing from them ever again if my money some how makes it back to Beaver or any of his cronies.
Sorry I stirred up what seemed like a peaceful board. Let's get back to the fishing discussion. Trico fishing has been very good on spring the last 3 weeks. Does anybody on here fish the little j with tricos? I hear they get a pretty good spinner fall but have never been down there early enough this time of year.
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duncsdad
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/03 19:01:34
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I have been a client of Steve's from when he first opened the doors next to the Lemont Post Office (that was before moving underneath it). At that time, I think he was the only one manning the shop. He tied a lot of his own flies, dyed feathers and fur, etc. When Dan, Fish Breath for those that knew him away from the shop, came to work for him it gave Steve a breather. As with all experiences, I have had both good and bad (I bought several name brand fly boxes from fishusa because even with the shipping they were 33% cheaper than FFP), but mostly good.
When the shop moved to its present location and Steve stepped away, attitudes seemed to change and not for the better. Dan was still Dan, but the others that I encountered there were cold, snobby, or both. As for Doug...
The last time I was in the shop I was waited on by a guy that took one look at my PSU hat and said, "I am working on leasing that mountain over there because come football season I want to clear out a huge spot and paint a big Michigan "M" so that all the Penn State jerks driving through here can see it." While what he said was obviously in jest, there a few things that you don't joke around about like a guy's wife's faithfulness, a guy's Mom, a guy's birddog, and a guy's Alma Mater -- especially when you are located there and probably 90% of all the money that comes through the shop is somehow related to employees, alumni, students, or those whose employment is facilitated by PSU.
Now that Danny left, I will stop in if I am in the area and really need something.
Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion
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salmotrutta
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/03 19:49:53
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Sad story. Happens down my way too. The shop is no longer a sanctuary for people who want to just talk fishing with others and spend a few bucks to help pay the bills. They seem to want the new guy who needs it all, while the ones who spread the good word are given the cold shoulder.
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thedrake
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/05 16:14:09
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BTW guys, I saw mr. eric stroup standing in front of the spring ridge club hatchery along spruce creek this morning. It was obvious he was getting ready to guide a client. I am now completely convinced that TCO and the SRC have some sort of business relationship.
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SilverKype
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/05 20:07:16
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You didn't see him drake, it must have been a misprint. 
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Thats_Hot
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RE: flyfishersparadise forum
2007/08/05 21:54:36
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Not to mention Eric Stroup saying that he has over a decade of guiding, tying, and writing. Give me a break. He has less than five years guiding. Regardless of TCO's connections with the Spring Ridge Club, why would you want to shop somewhere that lies about their experience. And why wouldn't you spend all of your fishing budget at Spruce Creek Outfitters... the shop that has fought to keep the Little Juniata public for 15 years?
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