Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC

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SilverKype
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2009/01/30 11:11:03 (permalink)

Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC

 
 
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_609416.html
 
 

My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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    SilverKype
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/01/30 11:16:35 (permalink)

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
    #2
    DanesDad
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/01/30 14:51:13 (permalink)
    Roe saying they want to take a cautious approach is pretty funny in light of the way things went.
    #3
    SilverKype
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/01/30 15:19:26 (permalink)
    Now, the commission is telling those people they have to remove their scopes and buy different sights just to continue hunting, Gergely said.
    That doesn't make sense, he said.
     
    "I think you've disenfranchised thousands and thousands and thousands of hunters. I cannot fathom that we have done that," Gregely said.
     
     
     
    ^^^  Another good one.  Who cares about what the majority of bowhunters thought, just matters what he thinks.

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
    #4
    S-10
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/01/30 15:33:11 (permalink)
    So much for any chance of a honest review of crossguns in 2012. We wouldn't want to make any changes to the use of crossbows that would disenfranchise the crossgun users would we.
    #5
    SilverKype
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/01/30 15:39:41 (permalink)
    All sugarcoated S-10.  At first sighting, I thought it was a compromise.   What a joke.  Crossbows won't be taken away if harvest is too high.   Archery season will be shortened if buck harvest is too high and the entire middle state will go one week doe season in rifle, if doe harvest is so high, allocations can't keep hunters retained.
     
    There's always West Virgina bowhunting only counties until the NRA take that one. 
     
     
     

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    #6
    S-10
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/01/30 15:47:34 (permalink)
    What sucks about that is I'am already a life member so I can't threaten to quit if they don't stop meddling in our affairs. I see where Magnus Broadheads are one of the sponsors of the Pa Crossbow hunters. Can you say "hello Ted".
    #7
    CrossForkWookie
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/04 10:27:32 (permalink)
    Why do you need a scope if you should only be shooting 40 yards or less.  What's the problem here?
     
     
    The almighty dollar wins again.
     
     
     
     
    #8
    dpms
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/04 15:49:23 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: CrossForkWookie

    Why do you need a scope if you should only be shooting 40 yards or less.  What's the problem here?

     
    I am fine with the restriction as it stands now.  One of several that I discussed with some commissioners.  It is a small price to pay for the opportunity to use a crossbow statewide IMO. 
     
    But, I have the feeling that all optics will be again be legalized come April. 

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #9
    S-10
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/04 16:24:16 (permalink)
    If that's the case then shouldn't there be a revote since I believe that scopes was an issue with one of the commissioners. Fat chance
    #10
    dpms
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/04 17:22:13 (permalink)
    Who knows what will happen when the time comes. 

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #11
    bingsbaits
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/04 19:04:39 (permalink)
    Funny little story on the crossbow issue....
     
    I was at our local archery shop shooting in their DART system..
     
    When we got done we were standing around and BSing..In through the door walks this older couple..Look to be in their later 60's...The lady looked to be about 65, she was about 5' tall with pretty silver hair....
     
    She addressed the owner and he was all excited to see her as he had something for her...
     
    She was there to pick up her new Bowtech "BOW"...40-50lbs...She pulls 43 lbs...
     
    I watched her as they set up the bow..She would put her release on and suck that bow back like it was nothing..Actually I was quite impressed with her savvy with the bow..
    Drawing bows indoors with some people can be very dangerous....
     
    As we talked got to find out her and her husband are very avid archery hunters. He just switched to a compound , he always shot a recurve but wounded an animal once because he couldn't hold the recurve so he switched.
     
    Her buck she took last year with her "BOW" almost took the buck pool...Really nice 9 point....
     
    I even commented to her " I wish I could have used you last week at the PGC public meetings on crossbow inclusion"...
     
    She could have shown them all that you do not need a crossbow to participate in archery season...
     
    A 65 year old grey haired granny grabbin some string in front of everybody should shame all those with the Illegitimate Disability Permit and many of those that say I can't pull my bow anymore....
     
    For you men  or ladies with the "real" need for this permit, please I do not mean you...We all know who they are..
     
    I would have to think a sport that would include everyone that at least had the athletic ability of a 65 year old grandmother that weighed about 100 lbs would leave things well enough alone...
     
    To bad there are some that need it even easier than that...
     
    Her and her husband were both against the Full Inclusion issue....
     
    (Please no offense meant to all you Silvered haired foxxes....))
     
     
     
     
     

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #12
    dpms
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/04 19:45:08 (permalink)
    Good story Bings.  Nice to see the passion still alive.

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #13
    gobyking
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/05 03:32:05 (permalink)
    No woman and/or elderly person can pull back any bow unless it is a crossbow with a cocking device. That is why they were never allowed in the woods until Jan. 27 of this year.
     
    They along with children were was used as a human shield in essence to push an agenda for able bodied guys that want to use one but are ashamed about it or have no excuse. But it is a nice, cozy story now.
    #14
    dpms
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/05 08:01:32 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: gobyking

    They along with children were was used as a human shield in essence to push an agenda for able bodied guys that want to use one but are ashamed about it or have no excuse. But it is a nice, cozy story now.

     
    Nice dig Goby.  Let it go and move on.  I am happy to see women hunters enjoying our sport no matter the weapon.  If she does it with a compound, more power to her. 

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #15
    gobyking
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/06 04:32:35 (permalink)
    DIG?
     
    OK. Here's how I see it. A B!tch uses a crossbow. Old women and men, kids, and disabled use it. I have nothing against them becuase they CAN NOT PULL BACK A REAL BOW.
     
    I also enjoy seeing people who are not normally in the woods hunting because that is good for our sport.
     
    Able bodied men like yourself should be ashamed to hunt with such a weapon. You have taken the easy way out.
     
    You guys here who disagree with me, your idiots in my book and have no b@lls. Get a real bow(recurve, longbow, compound) it will make you enjoy the hunt much more.
     
    Become a man. Act like one. And go against the grain of this pussification of so-called hunting with a crossbow if you can pull back any regular bow.
     
    This hunting community in PA is becoming a bunch of mary's!
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    dpms
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/06 07:40:03 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: gobyking

    OK. Here's how I see it. A B!tch uses a crossbow. Old women and men, kids, and disabled use it. I have nothing against them becuase they CAN NOT PULL BACK A REAL BOW.

    Able bodied men like yourself should be ashamed to hunt with such a weapon. You have taken the easy way out.

    You guys here who disagree with me, your idiots in my book and have no b@lls. Get a real bow(recurve, longbow, compound) it will make you enjoy the hunt much more.

    Become a man. Act like one. And go against the grain of this pussification of so-called hunting with a crossbow if you can pull back any regular bow.


     
     Tell us how you really feel.  Funny stuff.
     
    Anyway, I have a compound and hunt with it often, spent many hours in my treestands last year with it.  
     
    I guess I am a b!tch and a idiot one day and a "real" bowhunter the next.   Oh well, I have broad shoulders.  Lay it on if it makes you feel better.
     
    BTW, a real man does not need to use that kind of language and fling accusations.  They tend to approach issues a little differently than you do.

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #17
    scaremypsu
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/06 11:06:55 (permalink)
    Since there is so much "pussification", how about we propose archery season as "traditional archery season" where you can only use a longbow/recurve and no releases.  In late archery you can use compounds.  Lets see how many "archers" we really have.  
    #18
    SilverKype
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/06 12:28:03 (permalink)
    Pussification .. I like it.  LOL
     
    I'm not a "real" archer cause I shoot a compound.  I'm okay with that.     I used to shoot recurve, infact I learned to shoot on one -- but it was too much work, so I took the easy way out.  Please don't hurt my fillings.

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
    #19
    spoonchucker
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/06 12:37:01 (permalink)
     "Please don't hurt my fillings."

    Yeah, he might lose reception, and contact with planet X.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

    Step Up, or Step Aside


    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #20
    scaremypsu
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/06 13:00:28 (permalink)
    I was making a point, its a little hypocritical to make those comments and use a bow with 80% let off, fancy cams, high tech rest, carbon arrows.  According to him thats a real man, not someone who uses a crossbow.
    #21
    nightowl207
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/06 23:32:28 (permalink)
    sorry you feel that way goby. what exactly makes one a "b!tch" for using one? Far from "the easy way out". No need to get all upset about the new rules. Thats the rules and thats the way its gonna be. Its not like your being forced to use one. 
    #22
    duncsdad
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/07 08:07:17 (permalink)
    By goby's definition, the majority of deer hunters in PA, that would be rifle hunters, must all be less than manly.

    Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion
    #23
    gobyking
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/07 10:52:12 (permalink)
    I own both a compound and recurve, hunting this year with both. As you put it Dunc, the majority of Pa hunters are 2-3 day rifle hunters looking for a quick kill 200 yards from the road with a if its brown its down mentality. Then they don't get one and blame everything under the sun. Like, all the archers are killing all the deer, lets lobby to change that. Their season is too long (all archers;longbow,recurve,compound,crossbow). Problem is, they are welcome in archery for many years as was everyone else.

    So, your majority is not really. 10% of hunters who sent in emails were for crossbows. Yes, some PA hunters are are idiots. But they can use whatever they want now that's legal, crossbow being the easiest. You'll see. Crossbows are for those that don't want to put in any time or effort, a shortcutter. Don't bring up wind, patterning, etc I'm talking about shooting it in. It will be practiced with just like the majority of all hunters do with their rifles. Shoot it 6-15 times just before the season or "Hey I shot it in a couple years ago, it's still on". So, that was wrong to put in there 'be a man', I should have said 'don't be a lazy****like a good pecentage of hunters and use one'.

    It's legal to use, so what.
     
    Back to Planet X!
    #24
    nightowl207
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/08 00:31:34 (permalink)
    Just the way you talk of them Goby, I know you have never shot one. It isnt just point and shoot. Nothing like a rifle. Mine has a drop of 16" from 20 to 30yrds. its doesnt shoot a flat trajectory, (mine is 320fps 114ftlb.). You have to practice just as much with a xbow as you do any bow. They dont shoot consistently either, compounds hold a better group. Compounds and crossbow both have advantages and disadvantages, by far, neither is easier than the other. You have no clue what you are talking about, just exposing a close minded opinion. What are you really angry about anyway, even it a crossbow was "easier", what makes the difference? The guy with the $1500 Mathews compound setup has it "easier" than the guy with the $50 yardsale special. The guy with the $2000 top of line rifle and scope setup has it "easier" than the guy with the scopeless $100 30-30. The guy you spends the most money always has had it "easier". Do YOU own an expensive archery setup? Are you upset that someone can get the same performance statistics out of a $350 crossbow as one with a $1500 Mathews?      
    #25
    gobyking
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/08 03:46:24 (permalink)
    Wow, a lot of theories and questions to answer.

    I have shot a Horton middle of the road model and a higher end Barnett now. It is "point and shoot" because you already have it cocked, there is no drawing back while the deer is looking at you with it's 310 degree vision. It is like a short range rifle because it has a 1X red dot scope, stock, and trigger.

    If your crossbow drops 16" like you say from 20-30 yards, I can throw a rock at that target and it MAY drop 16" from 20 to 30 yards. What is the weight of your bolts grains per inch? Head weight? Weigh them seperately on either a digital scale or a reloading scale because it will affect your FOC(foward of center) weight which is important on getting good arrow flight. A good FOC for hunting is 10-15%. Most arrow companies have a chart you can go by to determine FOC. Gold Tip and Carbon Express are a couple.

    Compounds do not have the advantage of being ready to shoot. Major difference.

    You do not have to practice as much with a crossbow as any other bow. A mid-line crossbow is much more accurate inside of 30 yards than a common compound or recurve in 90% of people's hands. A lot of factors come into play outside of 30 yards.

    I'm as you call it "angry" because people don't see where this is headed. A lot of 2-3 day hunters per year thinking it is the easy way to kill a deer in better weather will not practice as you do, and end up wounding more deer or losing them in tracking because they wanted to take the easy way in the first place. Do you care if any season is shortened? Do you care if you only have 3-4 weeks to hunt with a crossbow instead of 6 with a compound/recurve/longbow/crossbow?

    I have a Mathews, $950 worth(bought used and upgraded). It can't out shoot a $350 Horton inside of 30 yards, both sighted in of course. Outside of that, I can out shoot that cheaper crossbow. Will I take a shot outside of that? No, the deer could move. I am not out to wound a deer. A good number of new "archery" hunters with crossbows will take that shot outside of 30 yards. You can disagree all you want, you know it is true.

    If you have a crossbow that is $50 at a yardsale, what model is it? Is it worth wounding a deer? Buy a better one if your not sure. There are a lot of crossbows or sale on Ebay for $99, they are good for wounding deer.

    My rifle is 20 years old and is a Remington. Not sure how that fits in this argument other than a crossbow is like a gun? Yes, it is a better shooter than any crossbow out there.

    No, I'm not upset a person with a $350 crossbow can out shoot me inside of 30 yards(if it is sighted in). An 8 year old might give me a run for the money on that one. See how simple?

    BTW, I bought a Samick Deer Master in December. It was $200 and the wood arrows were $50. Six Wensel Woodsman 125gr heads $30(they are tearing up my Block target!). Leather finger release $12. I plan on using this set up primarily and am leaning towards selling the Mathews because of the resale value. I have it inside a 10" ring(most of the time) at 20 yards now. It is a lot harder than the compound and way harder than a crossbow. I can't imagine a Stryker or one of its cost. Probably like shooting a slug gun out to 60-70 yards. Just guessing though.

    In reality, I am concerned that the RESOURCE(which is the total herd of deer in the WHOLE state of PA) will take a hit and be diminished. It is not about my season, it is about the herd and all of our seasons which could be curtailed!

    Anyway, I am going backwards while you guys are going forwards. Legal or not, if ANY season is shortened because of it, well, I TOLD YOU SO!
    post edited by gobyking - 2009/02/08 03:51:28
    #26
    nightowl207
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/09 00:26:27 (permalink)
    I didnt say I have a $50 crossbow? My arrows are 13.25 gpi and my tips and broad heads are 100g. I know it shoots 16in low from 20 to 30, when I bought it from cabelas it was presighted. When I shot my first 4 shots with it at 20yrds it hit within the 10" ring, when i stepped back to 30yrds after I was getting them within the 6in ring at 20yrds(after I learned how to center the string, center the arrow consistently, grip the bow more consistently, and follow the shot a little better.) I steped back to 30yrds, using the same dot in the sight, and it hit 16" low, between the ground and the target ripping my fletchings up. And the next dot in the sight brought the the first 16in above the bullseye.
     
    Crossbows are not as consistent as people think they are. They are not as accurate either. I can split my own arrows all day long at 30yrds with my used 1980s Jennings compound that ive used since i started archery hunting, (I am accurate within an 1" at 30yrds) (within 4" at 50yrds although I wouldnt ever try it on a deer) I cant do that with my 320fps 114ftlb Barnett.
     
    The main reason I bought a crossbow was far from "the easy way out" or "to be lazy". I bought It because in late archery I track-n-stalk. Its quite impossible to shoot a compound on your hands and knees while creaping up on a deer to get within 30yrds. Also I like to keep the peace in my woods during that time of year, I dont want to be echoing a cannon through the mountains scaring and putting every deer on alert within a mile, If I miss I want to have a chance to get up on the deer or another deer again without it being too stressed and overall I dont want all the deer franticing burning up energy they need to make it through the winter (exspecially this one).
     
    I understand some of your reasoning for disliking them. The reasoning of irresponsible hunters: yes they may be out buying that new crossbow now, but they are also out there all achery season, early muzzleloader, rifle, and late archery/muzzleloader, wounding deer and taking more than risky shots. Does that mean all the responsible hunters who wish to use xbows shouldnt be allow to? Thats like saying everybody should walk to work because some people drive irresponsibly.
    Like I said I understand some of your reasoning, I just dont agree with it. I dont think crossbows will cause a rise in kills or shorten the season, If anything shortens the season It will be the lack of population in general already from the number of rifle kills since they changed those seasons. 
    #27
    gobyking
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/10 03:58:05 (permalink)
    Your broadheads are too light, you need to go to a 125 grain head. Your first problem is trusting what a so-called shop(Cabela's) says your "bow" is sighted in at. 

    Try to make it clear what you say because I read that you lost 16" from 20-30 yards, which is not the case. You were using the top dot in the sight, which is normally used for the 10-15 yard range. FYI, most 3-dot crossbow 1X scopes are either 10-20-30 or 15-25-35 yards. When you try to explain that you dropped 16", of course it will drop. It doesn't drop 16" from 20 to 30 yards but drops from 10 to 30 yards, major difference at least what I read. There are 3 dots in the sight. They are used for 10-20-30 or 15-25-35 or 20-30-40. Don't deal in semantics unless you are serious and then we know the type of hunter/s we are dealing with. I am experienced with those type of folks. Your numbers are all wrong. You obviously haven't hunted with a crossbow(only practice) but tell us there is no difference. Of course, you set up is all wrong and you are basing it on one DOT on a 3-dot sight which you shoot at every range. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    And finally. You are so full of BS that I will wager $1000 to YOUR $1000 for you to "split arrows all day long at 30 yards with your used 1980's Jennings compound". I don't know anyone that can do that with today's technology, pro or not. And I would go even as far to bet that same amount you can hit the 18"X 18" target at 50 yards more than twice out of three shots! Without the crossbow of course.

    I think even DPMS would agree with me on this, maybe. He tries to be impartial. We'll see.

    Finally, I don't have an issue with you other than you are full of it. You are the typical crossbow hunter I see in 2B that thinks they can spot-n-stalk. Good luck with that percentage. You only push deer around and make them noctural.



    post edited by gobyking - 2009/02/10 04:01:10
    #28
    nightowl207
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/11 00:07:59 (permalink)
    "correct me if im wrong" Ok I will, your wrong. When I bought it from cabelas, it was sighted in at 20-30-40. Still is ,havent ever taken the caps off. That is the settings as it hangs on my wall today. When I shoot with my top dot at 20yrds, i hit my target.....when I step back to 30YRDS and use the SAME dot it hits 16" LOW! My broadheads are fine, Its what Barnett recommends with their arrows, and I use 100's so I can put a rubber washer on with them , so I can align my broadheads with my fletchings. I practiced with broadheads before I ever hunted with it and I hits and flys fine compared to the field tips. "spliting arrows all day long" was a figure of speech. It would be a very dumb bet on your part that I cant hit a 18" target at 50yrds. lol. If I wanted to throw a name out on the internet of a guy thats father taught me everything I know about archery. (his ol man was the best shot ive ever seen) Id have you look this guy up in Green County, I havent seen or heard from since we got out of highschool. He bet I couldnt shoot a rabbit that was over 50yrds across his yard, and he got fooled.
    You sound like the typical city boy couple days a year hunter that thinks he knows it all. You talk about "be a real man, hunt the hard way" than say someones a fool to stalk. Your one of them ones that would rather sit on their arse all day than have to walk. Ya, that takes a real man. The same goes to talking about all xbow hunters being lazy. Yes the percentage rate of kill isnt real high hunting this way, but I rather my hunt took some REAL skill to find the deer and harvest it, than be lazy sitting in a comfy treestand waiting for one to come into range. Ive killed several deer with a rifle in this manner but have yet to get one with the crossbow (this was my first full season with one). Im not an old fella but regardless of your age, I GAURENTEE ive spent more hours in the woods and on the water than you. Im done arguing with you about it, Its not like it matters, their legal and Im gonna use mine and thats all there is to it. You sit in your expensive treestand with your expensive calls, scents, munchies , and your over expensive Mathews (by the way I called that one) And I'll hunt on the ground with my crossbow. My whole point on this thread to begin with, most people have the wrong perseption of the capabilities of a crossbow. And most that are against them are too closeminded to do a little 1st hand research to see for themselves.  
    post edited by nightowl207 - 2009/02/11 00:14:12
    #29
    nightowl207
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    RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/11 00:12:40 (permalink)
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    post edited by nightowl207 - 2009/02/11 00:13:27
    #30
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