Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC

Page: < 123 > Showing page 2 of 3
Author
bingsbaits
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5026
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/11 07:04:13 (permalink)
Let me throw some raw performance numbers out there for you comparing the highest performance crossbow made today The "Stryker" vs the highest performance compound Bowtech makes right now in the Bowtech 82nd Airborne.

These are the facts on what a top of the line crossbow of today will do and how it compares to the same top level compound. (Not top vs average or vice versa)

The Airborne 82nd compound bow out of the box comes factory pre-set at 29” draw length and 70# draw weight and will shoot 312fps with a 425g arrow and a kinetic energy of 92ft lbs. (This number is also before weight is added to the string in the form of peep, nock accessories etc which will lower performance)
That 29”/70# is also above the industry average bowhunter in North America with respect to draw length and draw weight. 425gr arrow was chosen for comparison with the Stryker.

The Stryker out of the box with it’s 175# draw weight will throw the same 425gr weight projectile at 405fps for a KE rating of 155ft lbs.

I ran their ballistics through a program to extrapolate what they would both be doing at those controversial “Impossible” crossbow distances that people talk about for comparison and say they can't or won't do.

The numbers:Pray my math is correct.

Bowtech Airborne 82nd (point blank) 29”/70# with a 425gr arrow = 312fps and 92ft lbs of KE
(By all rights an extremely high performance bow)

At 90 yards it is doing 284fps and 76ft lbs of KE
At 100 yards it is at 281fps and 74.6ft lbs of KE.
Impressive performance to say the least!


Stryker Crossbow- (point blank) with the same 425gr arrow = 405fps for 155ft lbs of KE
At 90 yards it is still going 341fps with a KE of 110ft lbs. (at 90 yards it is still 16% more powerful than the compound is at point blank
At 100 yards it is still going 337.8fps with a KE of 107.6 (at 100 yards the crossbow is still 14% more powerful than the compound at point blank)

Think about that.

What does this longwinded nonsense illustrate exactly?
For one it directly compares the top end offerings in both categories no BS, it's todays best performance in each category. It also dispels the myth that crossbows somehow are “less efficient” or offer no performance advantage over a compound.
Remember the average bowhunter is shooting a compound bow with far less performance than I illustrated which widens that gap considerably.....anybody can shoot the Stryker with the performance listed.
 
 
The new xguns will shoot almost flat out to 50 yrds..There is not even a six inch drop between 20-30 yrds...

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


#31
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3471
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/11 07:45:56 (permalink)
They are impressive numbers Bings, no doubt. 
 
One must also consider when shooting past fifty yards with any compound or crossbow, the animal that we are shooting at.  Meaning because all of these numbers are still relatively slow, comparatively speaking, the chance of the animal moving from trigger pull to arrow impact must be factored into any possible shot past 40 yards or so. 
 
Also one must factor in the needed vertical window clear of obstructions. As that distance increases so does the vertical window needed that is clear to allow for the drop of the arrow.  Tough deal in the woods but not a worry at the range. 
 
On another board the 36 inch number was thrown out there by a rep as to what the Stryker would need for 100 yard shot clearance free of obstructions.  There will be a test down shortly by someone who ones a Stryker to see what the arc of the bolt is and what kind of vertical clearance one needs to take a 100 yard shot.  Some computer models show anywhere from 5 foot to 10 foot drop at 100 but that is why we are doing the test to get some real world data.
 
I will keep you posted of the results when they become available.

My rifle is a black rifle
#32
S-10
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5185
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2005/01/21 21:22:55
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/11 08:24:34 (permalink)
If a crossbow can shoot tight groups at 100 yards (The PSE rep claims 1" at 100) the drop doesn't matter if you have a range finder. As for a moving target, most folks don't shoot at a moving target with any bow. That's why they have their food plots.
#33
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3471
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/11 11:46:42 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: S-10

If a crossbow can shoot tight groups at 100 yards (The PSE rep claims 1" at 100) the drop doesn't matter if you have a range finder.

 
At a range or in a field situation you are right.  In the woods that drop becomes a huge factor.  Hard enough threading an arrow through the branches at 30 yards.   Trying to find a hole large enough to shoot through at 80-100, good luck.

My rifle is a black rifle
#34
bingsbaits
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5026
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/11 12:12:40 (permalink)
Good thing is they are expensive..Average hunter will have a hard time coming up with $1200 for a new toy..
 
With those kind of numbers they have to be absolutely deadly out to 50 yards or so...
 
Lets just hope it doesn't have to big of an impact on archery season...

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


#35
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3471
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/11 12:55:32 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

Good thing is they are expensive..Average hunter will have a hard time coming up with $1200 for a new toy..



 
Plus the AR lower which are hard to find and not cheap right now. 

My rifle is a black rifle
#36
nightowl207
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 567
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/11 23:28:14 (permalink)
If a crossbow shoots out to 50yrds with flat trajectory,why would they have 3 dots on the sight? And why would they be preseted at 15-25-35, 20-30-40, and 25-35-45? They are far from shooting flat trajectory to 50yrds.
post edited by nightowl207 - 2009/02/11 23:29:50
#37
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3471
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/12 08:55:24 (permalink)
That is correct Night for the majority of the crossbows that guys and girls are hunting with now.  But there is some new stuff out there shooting very flat to 50 yards.  One dot will provide coverage of the vital zone out to about 50 yards with the Stryker and Tac-15.

My rifle is a black rifle
#38
Fishtamer
Avid Angler
  • Total Posts : 235
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2007/01/21 14:25:36
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/12 11:48:32 (permalink)
I think that's the reason that you can't use a scope with magnification. Let me see someone shoot a 3" group @ 100 yards without a scope.
#39
RIZ
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 915
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/04/17 11:44:29
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/12 15:12:09 (permalink)
it desn't matter if youcan shoot that kind of a group.  the new people to the xbow will be rifle hunter and they will bring their rifle mentality with them.  shoot at anything you see and if it falls, drag it out.  you really thing many of the newbies will take the time they need to be prficient with a xbow.  hell no!  they don't take that time now with their rifles.  a tiger will never change it's stripes.
#40
gobyking
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1195
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/12 23:03:42 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: nightowl207

"correct me if im wrong" Ok I will, your wrong. When I bought it from cabelas, it was sighted in at 20-30-40. Still is ,havent ever taken the caps off. That is the settings as it hangs on my wall today. When I shoot with my top dot at 20yrds, i hit my target.....when I step back to 30YRDS and use the SAME dot it hits 16" LOW! My broadheads are fine, Its what Barnett recommends with their arrows, and I use 100's so I can put a rubber washer on with them , so I can align my broadheads with my fletchings. I practiced with broadheads before I ever hunted with it and I hits and flys fine compared to the field tips. "spliting arrows all day long" was a figure of speech. It would be a very dumb bet on your part that I cant hit a 18" target at 50yrds. lol. If I wanted to throw a name out on the internet of a guy thats father taught me everything I know about archery. (his ol man was the best shot ive ever seen) Id have you look this guy up in Green County, I havent seen or heard from since we got out of highschool. He bet I couldnt shoot a rabbit that was over 50yrds across his yard, and he got fooled.
You sound like the typical city boy couple days a year hunter that thinks he knows it all. You talk about "be a real man, hunt the hard way" than say someones a fool to stalk. Your one of them ones that would rather sit on their arse all day than have to walk. Ya, that takes a real man. The same goes to talking about all xbow hunters being lazy. Yes the percentage rate of kill isnt real high hunting this way, but I rather my hunt took some REAL skill to find the deer and harvest it, than be lazy sitting in a comfy treestand waiting for one to come into range. Ive killed several deer with a rifle in this manner but have yet to get one with the crossbow (this was my first full season with one). Im not an old fella but regardless of your age, I GAURENTEE ive spent more hours in the woods and on the water than you. Im done arguing with you about it, Its not like it matters, their legal and Im gonna use mine and thats all there is to it. You sit in your expensive treestand with your expensive calls, scents, munchies , and your over expensive Mathews (by the way I called that one) And I'll hunt on the ground with my crossbow. My whole point on this thread to begin with, most people have the wrong perseption of the capabilities of a crossbow. And most that are against them are too closeminded to do a little 1st hand research to see for themselves.  

 
You bought it and it was pre-sighted, never took the caps off to adjust it. Kind of like the guy who has rifle bore sighted and thinks it is ok to hunt with. Whatever. I know you practice, I never criticized you at all for it. You're actually going to be an exception to most crossbow hunters this upcoming year. Ok, it was dumb for you to say splitting arrows, it was also dumb for me to say you couldn't hit a target at 50 yards with that old bow. You can call me a city boy or a couple day a year hunter all you want, my posts on hunting subjects tend to disagree with that thought throughout this last year. A stalker is just someone that has low percentage sightings other than tails waving. I've done it for many years since I was a kid with many weapons and it is low percentage. What it ultimately does is push deer around unnaturally and makes them hole up or become nocturnal. I had ants in the pants as a kid and couldn't sit somewhere for more than a couple hours, age makes it less a factor(and an $150 really,really expensive climber). 
 
Archery is patterning deer to find out where they are frequenting IMO. Not walking around the woods hoping to see one. Sure, that is a tactic from years past I may have to do with my recurve but I will be more likely standing near a tree(or in one) waiting for the deer to appear on their normal pattern. Not hoping some duud from another hillside decides to walk around.
 
It is legal, they passed it and you now have the choice. You as of now have to take that red dot sight off and go hunt deer with pins on a crossbow. Which one are you going to hunt with? The 80's bow you can group good out to 50 yards or the crossbow with pin sights?
 
Who cares if you think you spent more time in the woods/water? It doesn't mean you are any more knowledgable than someone else. If you had that much time you would be able to kill deer just by thinking and knowing where they would be, not luck by walking around waiting to jump one broadside at 20-30 yards. And catch fish by the same big brain better than others with less enhanced noggins by your standards.
 
As for the expensive bow, calls, munchies(?), stands. You would think they were great if you owned one of them. I like my overpriced bow, really expensive climber, and $4 Jack's links jerky. I don't have any expensive calls other than a 10 year old grunt call which doesn't work at all.
 
Are you bow/call/munchie/stand envious???
#41
SilverKype
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3842
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2005/01/24 11:58:02
  • Location: State
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/13 07:48:52 (permalink)
Goby
 
You can use a red dot sight.  You will be able to use magnification come April.  Legislators will get their way if they pursue it. 
 
 
Yinzers crossgunners that think yinzs will be stalkin' deer decide to step in front of me, you may get an arrah in your butt. 

My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
#42
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3471
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/13 07:50:48 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: gobyking

You as of now have to take that red dot sight off and go hunt deer with pins on a crossbow. Which one are you going to hunt with?



Non-magnified optics are still legal.  That would include any 1X red-dots, holographics, and 1X scopes. 
 
Edit: Silver beat me to it.
post edited by dpms - 2009/02/13 07:51:42

My rifle is a black rifle
#43
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3471
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/13 07:52:52 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: SilverKype
 

Yinzers crossgunners that think yinzs will be stalkin' deer decide to step in front of me, you may get an arrah in your butt. 

 
Just make sure I am not walking to my stand in stealth mode. 

My rifle is a black rifle
#44
gobyking
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1195
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/13 12:28:57 (permalink)
So much hard work for so little. Are pins too hard?
 
There's a small army of walking wounded now holding up doctors notes, feigning limps, using slings and glasses complaining to their legislators now so they can get their magnifying scopes.
 
What an honorable bunch that crossbows attract.
#45
Big Tuna
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1882
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2001/02/04 16:31:51
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/20 18:18:59 (permalink)
All this talk about unrealistic 100 yard shots with a crossbow,I've bow hunted over 35 years and bought a Horton 175 HD a coulpe of years ago and hunted in Ohio and have had two monster bucks in the last three years under 30 yards and have not taken a shot,because they where in thick stuff,I'm not defending the Xbow but there plenty of arrow flingers out there,every year someone I know or my son or I have killed a deer that SOMEONE else stuck with a bow so Everyone bow or crossbow hunter should know there limitations.
#46
2ManyVices
New Angler
  • Total Posts : 22
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2007/03/28 16:25:34
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/21 21:53:57 (permalink)
Goby,
Have you ever shot side by side next to a crossbow shooter? Obviously not. They ARE NOT NEARLY AS ACCURATE as you would like everyone to believe. Far, far from it.  On several occasions, at twenty yards -indoors, I made a guy with a magnified scope/crossbow outfit that was about twice as expensive as my Hoyt Striker look plain silly. Let me say right now, I still own a stick bow, multiple compounds and a newly acquired crossbow. The latter was purchased hoping my son would take a liking to archery season some day. I also hunted strictly with a bow for many years and did very well...during that time, I also took way too much flak from rifle hunters saying, "I was out there killing all of their D@^^ deer!! Guess what you are doing? You and guys just like you don't like it that you might have to share the woods....  That's all this is about...pure greed!!! You and everyone like you should be ashamed that you want to act like you have some God-given right to these deer and no one else has any right to pursue them. CLASSLESS!!! My crossbow has a 3X scope on it and now I guess I'll have to buy another sight to be legal. I don't want to hear what a bunch of marine sharpshooters can do with a crossbow that has an AR-15 receiver for a base.  That thing shot standard length arrows...maybe not for my draw length, but for many of those I used to shoot with. What price tag did that sort of rig cost? It wasn't your basic off the shelf unit that I've been hearing all of the belly achers whine about. An AR 15 is $800 - $1500.00. Do you really think we have many folks out there that would buy something that expensive...maybe a few, but not many. WHAT WE ARCHERS NEED TO REALIZE IS THAT MAYBE WE'RE SIMPLY GETTING WHAT WE HAD COMINGAROUND ALL ALONG. This season was exclusively our's for how many years? 35? 40? 45? Give it time, but don't act like a spoiled baby and put a bunch of hype out there to suit your own foolish fears. As for the PGC...they've got another two years and I'll be going elsewhere to hunt. This adoption of this reg about the scopes is silly. If you don't want the crossbows...don't allow them! Plain and simple. But then we are talking about the same agency that spent how much time (not that long ago)trying to legalize that Atlatl!!!! Now that's who I really want to share the deer woods with a bunch of javelin throwers!!!
 
and NO, if you haven't figured it out already, I DO NOT work for the useless flippin PGC.
 
My rant is over now.
2MV
#47
gobyking
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1195
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/22 21:58:34 (permalink)
Side by side with someone of lesser skill with any weapon doesn't prove anything about the weapons overall capability in a "primitive season" or any other for that matter.
 
I never said anything about 100 yard shots. I think that is unrealistic for sure. 60-70 yards, maybe with higher end model X-bows.
 
Why not give the kid a try with a regular bow just like we did when we started? Persistence makes the outcome that much more rewarding.
 
You say you bought an X-bow(for your son someday), then seem upset about not being able to use your 3X scope. Is it for you or did you use your son as an excuse?
 
Typical excuses that have been put forth. Just claim your an able-bodied person who wants to use a crossbow. Talk about classless, spoiled baby, excuse maker....
 
 
It is legal and use whatever you want. Don't ask the rest of hunters to accept it. The majority don't and won't. It isn't archery.
 
Dr. Trout is not going to be happy with your stance on the PGC.
#48
2ManyVices
New Angler
  • Total Posts : 22
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2007/03/28 16:25:34
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/23 06:25:39 (permalink)
I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.
 
I also forgot to add that I bought my son a youth bow when he was little and thought it was going to be something he'd like, so I also BOUGHT HIM A HOYT when he came of age to actually hunt.
 
I think we need to remember how the "primitive" aspect gets diluted so quickly. This is also a business to the $#$@$#$ PGC. Remember back in '74 when only a few authentic, antique flintlock rifles were allowed to be carried on select game lands for deer? Now we have peep sights, fiber-optic sights, conical bullets, "PA Pellet"-type guns, etc. ALL LEGAL!
 
The only way you'd be able to make archery season truly primitive would be to limit it to bona fide stick bows, no sights, cedar arrows and nap the flint points yourself!!!! Oh, eliminate the electronic game finders and tree stands too!!
 
Are you and I willing to go that far?
 
I didn't think so.
 
Oh, and IDGAFF what anyone else thinks of my opinion of that BUSINESS ENTITY.
#49
bingsbaits
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5026
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/23 06:59:03 (permalink)
then keep it too yourself.....
post edited by bingsbaits - 2009/02/25 06:50:58

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


#50
gooseman
Avid Angler
  • Total Posts : 153
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/05/12 12:04:38
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/25 02:06:23 (permalink)
WOW!!!! I've been away too long. Sorry guys !!!
 
It's not that a crossbow will out shoot you, it's just that they only have to sight their "bow" in one time. Mark my words, you will see a drastic increase in "bow (think they have a gun)" hunters over the next couple of years. 
#51
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3471
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/25 07:29:23 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: gooseman

. Mark my words, you will see a drastic increase in "bow (think they have a gun)" hunters over the next couple of years. 

 
Most crossbow supporters are hoping for some recruitment as you suggest.  They question will be how many.

My rifle is a black rifle
#52
gobyking
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1195
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/25 10:39:24 (permalink)
DPMS, are you a politician too? Nice positive spin.
 
That is NOT what Gooseman meant and your trying to justify potential(certain IMO) poor sportsmanship/actions to validate the full inclusion that has been passed. There were many other ways to increase hunters and retention numbers, this was probably the worst one.
 
You and I both know how badly this pitted hunters against hunters. It was a poor decision and will be proven in time by some shortened hunting seasons and the lowest deer harvests in the past 20 years(buck and doe) after 4-5 years of it. At that point, you will see a larger loss of hunters than ever before. Will you then conclude that you have made a mistake supporting it?
#53
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3471
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/25 11:26:33 (permalink)
Gobyy,
 
Not spinning anything.  The guy said there will be a drastic increase.  I said that some increase is what I am hoping for.
 
As to what lies ahead.  Time will tell and I will be active in monitoring the data that will come through 2012, good or bad.   If the data shows a larger impact than what I am expecting and the resource is compromised, then yes I will be active in looking at ways to correct it, without shortening the season.
 
The PCF has already stated in testimony that they do not want to take anything away from the current bowhunters 6 week fall season and would ask that the length of time that crossbows be allowed be reduced.  I support that.  I want the transition to be seamless for all involved and have no long term affects. 
 
My position is not all in.  My position is procede with caution and look at the data.  

My rifle is a black rifle
#54
SilverKype
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3842
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2005/01/24 11:58:02
  • Location: State
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/25 11:38:47 (permalink)
You think TBrom has the power to exclude crossbows in archery if the harvest is too high, just by his suggestion?   I watched him make that statement and I think it's a line a crap.  Just another "sugarcoated" work my way into archery season response.  Just like the sunset clause. 

My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
#55
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3471
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/25 11:50:22 (permalink)
From what I know of Tbrom, he is not a all in guy either.  I care about the resource and, believe it or not, I care about my fellow hunters.  I do not want one segment to benefit at anothers expense.  Tbrom's statement came across that way to me.
 
You are right, he does not have the power to exclude crossbows from a portion of the season but a willingness to work with the BOC and PGC to offer solutions that effect the crossbow hunters specifically.  At his own expense. 
 
Some crossbow supporters are not all in or else Hightine.  Or pro-legislative involvement. Those that are moderate are not sugarcoating anything to get what you may think they want. 
 
There are some hardliners out there though.

My rifle is a black rifle
#56
SilverKype
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3842
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2005/01/24 11:58:02
  • Location: State
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/25 12:03:18 (permalink)
I'll believe it if it happens.
 
The legislation is hardlining though. Crossbows will never EVER be accepted by bowhunters with way the crossbow made it into archery season.  The bitterness will never reside.  Thank the legislation and whose who supported them for the forever divide among hunters.  Don't blame the bowhunters.

My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
#57
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3471
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/25 12:20:50 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: SilverKype

The legislation is hardlining though. Crossbows will never EVER be accepted by bowhunters with way the crossbow made it into archery season.  The bitterness will never reside.  Thank the legislation and whose who supported them for the forever divide among hunters.  Don't blame the bowhunters.

 
The legislature tries to put its hands on many things that they shouldn't.   Why should hunters be bitter at each other because of the behavior of the legislature.  
 
As to who to blame.  If there is  devision, I blame those that have been devisive in their approach to whatever issue it is.  We can all agree or disagree in a civil way but in the end we are all sportsman that should support each other.

My rifle is a black rifle
#58
SilverKype
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3842
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2005/01/24 11:58:02
  • Location: State
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/25 12:46:56 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

The legislation is hardlining though. Crossbows will never EVER be accepted by bowhunters with way the crossbow made it into archery season.  The bitterness will never reside.  Thank the legislation and whose who supported them for the forever divide among hunters.  Don't blame the bowhunters.


The legislature tries to put its hands on many things that they shouldn't.   Why should hunters be bitter at each other because of the behavior of the legislature.  


 
Legislators don't try d, they do.  I have a better chance in seeing Jesus in the next 2 seconds, than the magnified scopes not getting pushed through.   Bowhunters will always be bitter because it affects them.  If the overwhelming majority wanted xbows, the bowhunters would accept that they were a minority.  That was never the case.  The whole issue was born with legislation years ago.  The issue continued to arise because of legislation.  The PGC shut down the idea of crossbows 3 times.  Palone voted against it 3 times.  Finally the legislation had enough of the PGC and introduced a bill to force crossbows in archery.  The PGC finally gave in.  Palone admitted on paper.  Her or Scheffler was the swing vote.  In the end, Scheffler too, got the shaft.  That sums up the whole crossbow issue. 
 
Do you consider the upcoming magnified scope vote to be "in house" if the PGC revisits it, without the legislation introducing a bill ?  It never would have existed with legislation so it's not " PGC in house" at all.  Just like the crossbow issue was never "in house."
 
I think it's funny when xbow hunters say don't support legislation involvement in wildlife management.  Yet, support crossbow expanison.  They really are connected dpms.  You could say they are connected indirectly, but they connected.

My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
#59
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3471
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Crossbows and the 'independent' PGC 2009/02/25 12:57:17 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: SilverKype


I think it's funny when xbow hunters say don't support legislation involvement in wildlife management.  Yet, support crossbow expanison.  They really are connected dpms.  You could say they are connected indirectly, but they connected.

 
They are connected in that both want expansion of crossbow hunting opportunities.  I guess you could say that is an indirect connection. 
 
I would argue that there is a right way to go about it, much like the UBP's approach in the past.  Some of us were going that route and some were not.  I just would not like to see a segment of hunters looked down upon because of the tactics of some in the legislature.
 
 

My rifle is a black rifle
#60
Page: < 123 > Showing page 2 of 3
Jump to: