NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa.

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dpms
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2009/01/16 22:42:49 (permalink)

NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa.

Looks like many eyes on Pa.


http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=4304



Vote Scheduled to Change the Pennsylvania Game Code to Include Crossbows!

Friday, January 16, 2009

Please Contact the Pennsylvania Game Commission Today!

Over the last several years, there has been a growing debate concerning the use of crossbows in Pennsylvania. At its upcoming meeting, the Pennsylvania Game Commission will be voting on a proposal that would make Pennsylvania the twelfth state to allow the use of crossbows during the state archery season. This meeting will be held from Sunday, January 25 to Tuesday, January 27. To view a copy of the agenda, please click here.


NRA strongly advocates for any expansion of hunter opportunity and choice when there is no biological reason to oppose the expansion. In fact, states that have allowed the use of crossbows have been able to maintain healthy wildlife populations. Additionally, the recruitment and retention of hunters has improved by removing crossbow restrictions. At a time when the number of hunters is declining, nothing is more important than the ongoing effort to preserve and strengthen our hunting heritage.


The Pennsylvania Game Commission has received input on both sides of the issue from stakeholders concerning this proposed change. It’s time the Pennsylvania Game Commission hear from the very sportsmen and hunters they represent. There is little doubt that non-hunters and “animal rights” forces will be active in making their voices heard, so it is vital that sportsmen speak loudly.


Please contact the members of the Pennsylvania Game Commission TODAY and respectfully ask that they act to preserve our cherished hunting heritage by voting for the inclusion of crossbows during the state archery season. Contact information for your Game Commissioner can be found below.


Roxane Palone, President
vrpalone@windstream.net

Greg Isabella, Vice-President
secommissioner@aol.com


Jay Delaney, Jr., Secretary
PGCDistrict7@aol.com


Russell Schleiden
reschleiden@intergate.com


Tom Boop
tboop@verizon.net


Dave Schreffler
[email=c-deschreff@state.pa.us]c-deschreff@state.pa.us[/email]

Ron Weaner
pgc6@superpa.net

post edited by dpms - 2009/01/16 22:45:07

My rifle is a black rifle
#1

73 Replies Related Threads

    nightowl207
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 00:42:11 (permalink)
    This doesnt surprise anyone, does it? Lol
    #2
    bingsbaits
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 08:20:51 (permalink)
    I think as hunters we all want more opportunity and time to hunt...

    The arrowgun issue has turned into either you are for them(100% inclusion) or not for full inclusion(as many are)..


    If we are against FULL INCLUSION we are labeled as anti-hunter, anti-arrowgun, ...That is not true at all...

    Many are just against FULL INCLUSION..our little pole proved that on an earlier thread...

    I have always said there should be increased opportunity with a Senior permit and a shortened arrowgun season to see how it will work..Get some data for a few years and then decide...

    Maybe the arrowgun crowd (100% full inclusion) should not be so greedy and want FULL INCLUSION or nothing and push for a short season and senior permit which would be supported by 75% of the hunters..

    Why not fight together instead of with each other...I'm willing to give a little, as many also have said here they would too, why aren't the arrowgun folks(100% full inclusion) willing to???


    Guess I just don't understand the FULL INCLUSION or nothing arguement....
    post edited by bingsbaits - 2009/01/17 08:22:42

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #3
    bingsbaits
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 08:36:27 (permalink)
    I wonder if the NRA is really for increased hunting opportunity or are they trying to save an arrowrifle like this here which would fall more along the line of their agenda...
     

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #4
    dpms
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 08:42:47 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

    Why not fight together instead of with each other...I'm willing to give a little, as many also have said here they would too, why aren't the arrowgun folks(100% full inclusion) willing to???


    Guess I just don't understand the FULL INCLUSION or nothing arguement....

     
    I agree Bings.  Also the same arguement could be made for the 100% anti-crossbow stance.
     
    I have always been in favor of expansion with a focus on monitoring the impact with studies that would be released for all to see.  Maybe full inclusion down the road if it is determined that the impact is minimal.
     
    I have been active on the boards and behind the scenes on this issue pleading for all to come together and find some common ground.  That almost happened recently but it fell through.  Maybe after the vote I can fill you in.
     
    I respect everyones position on this issue and only have been trying to remain objective and point out falsehoods from both sides of the fence.
     
    This issue is a big problem for Pa. and the future of the PGC IMO.  No matter which way the vote goes.  I wish more from both sides, just like yourself, would have seen the importance of trying to find some common ground.
     
     

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #5
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 09:20:43 (permalink)
    Maybe the arrowgun crowd (100% full inclusion) should not be so greedy and want FULL INCLUSION or nothing and push for a short season and senior permit which would be supported by 75% of the hunters..

     
     
    here's where it STARTED going wrong ........ IMHO --
     
    when folks like me who wanted to be able to use a crossbow started reading things like this ---
     
     
    only for dis-abled people..
     
    people wanting crossbows are LAZY...
     
    crossbows will shorten OUR season...
     
    crossbows will mean antlerless allocations will be cut..
     
    there will be more wounded deer with crossbows..
     
    charge extra to use a crossbow..
     
    there will be more poaching...
     
    ETC
     
    I'm not just talking what may have been said on this board of by any one person....... I'm talking articles written.. UBP propaganda... sportmens clubs... personal conversations.. and of course the internet...
     
     
     
     
    There was no extented hand saying let's give them a try and see what happens for awhile by thye UBP or the current archers...
     
    those of us wanting crossbows were immediately belittled for our desire for another opportunity to hunt deer with a different weapon and an opportuntiy to hunt in generally nicer weather...
     
    The only reason SOME anti-crossbow folks (like the UBP) are backing down NOW from their original stand is to try to prevent FULL INCLUSION..
     
     
     they KNOW crossbows are going to become a legal weapon in fall archery that was already passed by the commission....
     
    so NOW that they have lost the battle of keeping crossbows out of fall archery BUT they are still trying to use their "weight" and limit the use by pretenting to be crossbow friendly now...  
     
    TO BAD in my opinion... when the idea of crossbows first appeared I'd have been happy with a week in November.... but now .. I write often and state I want FULL INCULSION... and if we do not get it ... they can add me to the anti-PGC list.......
     
    what goes around comes around...
     
    BTW...
    The Federation had a large survey and there was a majority that
     
    DOES NOT want anytype of permit....
    Wants use in regular fall archery season..
    Wants use by any legal hunter..
    Were against full inclusion
     
    My "sources" say --  we may very well still get FULL INCULSION with a we'll check again in a few years and see clause..............
     
     
     
    AMEN !!!!!
     
    you see the E-mail addresses...
     
    write today....
     
    no permit... use by anyone...full inclusion....
     
     
    #6
    S-10
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 10:00:02 (permalink)
    Doc wrote= I write often and state I want FULL INCULSION... and if we do not get it ... they can add me to the anti-PGC list.......

     
    I guess that's what Doc calls the voice of reason. If you don't go along with the PGC you are guilty of helping the anti-hunters but if I (DOC) don't get my way you can all go to hell.
    #7
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 10:21:06 (permalink)
    where in the hell did this come from....
     
    If you don't go along with the PGC you are guilty of helping the anti-hunters but if I (DOC) don't get my way you can all go to hell.

     
    I don't know if I have ever posted the words anti-hunters on an internet site... I'm pretty **** sure I haven't... why would I want to give them free advertisement..
     
    plus I never said the PGC could go to hell...
     
    I said  they could put me on the list of folks who have something against the PGC (anti-PGC)
    I said if they the BOC backs down and doesn't give full inclusion.. I'd join the anti-pgc folks like yourself and others on this board.....
     
    they can add me to the anti-PGC list

     
    I'd still support the deer program but would bash them every chance I got  about anything archery season related..
     
     
    STOP reading things into my post that are not there ... PLEEEEAAASSSEEEEE
     
     
    #8
    bingsbaits
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 11:25:57 (permalink)
    Once again back to a ****ing contest...I'm trying my ****ed hardest doc to have a reasonable discussion..Quit being so **** condesending..Do you enjoy ****ing people off...Yours is the only anti attitude on anything...Anti everything thats not my way....Why not bend a little for the good of all hunters???

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #9
    thedrake
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 12:12:42 (permalink)
    I'm not suprised at all that the NRA would back crossbows. Better not say anything against the NRA, cause someone on here will label you an "anti".
     
    I notice the NRA article said this will create more opporunity.....as if anyone is excluded from archery season right now. All anyone has to do is buy a bow and learn to shoot it....then get an archery stamp on their license. Anyone who wants to hunt deer during archery season, and doesnt want to learn to shoot a bow is excluding themselves. They have the ability to hunt archery they just want it to be easier, so they just dont do it....then say "its not fair to exclude us".
     
    No doubt the idea will come up where someone will say "this will create more opportunity for the kids". Perhaps it will, but the guys who say that are always the ones who what to hunt with a crossbow themselves, and are hiding behind the "do it for the kids" idea.
    #10
    gobyking
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 20:32:11 (permalink)
    Doc, your coming off as a hippocrite again.....
     
    Its all about you isn't it. Me,me,me ,me is what you say when someone is against your crossbow. But when the shoe is on the other foot, they are anti's (crossbow; but it sounds as if you are saying anti-hunter, which is way far from it. The people you call this are more than likely 10 times the hunter you are.)  
     
    Lot of crap coming from you thess days as Silver said, most see through it, thus you consider yourself bashed because they call you out on it.
     
    You'll get your crossbow and your Uncle Ted BS, and I can't wait to hear you complain in a couple years about the population or woundings. I can already tell you ahead of time,
     
     
     
    I TOLD YOU SO DUMAS !!!!
    #11
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 21:13:46 (permalink)
    Goby....
     
    again.. I have never said those that are anti-crossbows are anti hunting...
     
    If someone is against something they are anti that something.. is that that hard to understand???
     
    If I were against in-lines .. I'd be anti-in-lines.... against fly fishing... anti-fly fishing....  does not mean I am against hunting or fishing... just against those  two things.. does that make it easier to understand  for you ?????
     
    what's this mean..
    your Uncle Ted BS

     
    you can't even remember who posted what.... I have never mentioned nugent (if that's what you mean) .. don't particularly like him.... so could care less what he thinks about anything.....
     
    You read --- anti-crossbows ----  and your mind thinks anti-hunting.. no where near the same thing in my book.....
     
    Let's put it this way...
     
    If someone does not want crossbows in archery season what would you call them if not anti-crossbows... ??????????
     
    #12
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/17 21:22:01 (permalink)
    Bing wrote---
     
    Yours is the only anti attitude on anything...Anti everything thats not my way....

     
    Not true at all..
     
    I'm all for ARs -- 3 point state wide though
    I was all for HR
    I'm all for a two week concurrent season
    I'm all for full inculsion for crossbows for everyone
    I'm all for more opportunities for in-lines
    I'm all for baiting
    I'm all for the CACs
     
     
    I am anti some things....
     
     
    Sunday hunting
    Poachers
    Tresspassers
    Mentored hunters being allowed to shot bucks
    Large WMUs
     
    #13
    nightowl207
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/18 01:01:14 (permalink)
    Your all for baiting but agaist poaching (which baiting is considered). Sounds like your all for everything that will make it easier to harvest a deer. Thats not what hunting is about, hunting is about using your knowledge and skill to successfully harvest a deer (the weapon is just a tool) and passing the knowledge and skill onto the youngsters which you dont want them to be able to shoot bucks. Sounds like you dont want the deer to have a chance in hell to survive through the hunting seasons but want more deer and bigger bucks. Not to try and offend you but your prioritys are kind of bass ackwards.
    #14
    sugarfuzz12
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/18 02:16:39 (permalink)
    dream on
    #15
    gobyking
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 19:22:02 (permalink)
    I made a mistake, I read the Ted Nugent thing and then put it to your post, my apologies. Can't believe you condone baiting if it is legal, you are a strange dude.
     
    You said hunting was about the challenge a while back, now you just want to bring them to the bucket. Hippocrite.
     
    And Peacy(surgarnutz12) this is no longer a dream, crossbows are a reality. You can soon use one out of the window of your truck at night while poaching, it is so easy a kid can do it. We all need more of those types in the woods, or on the roads.
    #16
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 19:34:55 (permalink)
    You said hunting was about the challenge a while back, now you just want to bring them to the bucket. Hippocrite.


    Using your words..... what would be the challenge in sitting in a treestand over looking a food plot are those hippocrites too ??????

    States that allow baiting are not getting wiped out of deer/bear and most are finding it does not really increase the odds of a harvest over all...

    Look at baiting for bear... that looks REALLY EASY... but yet it has been around for years and the bears keep coming and coming...
     
    Just saying you do not like the idea of baiting and calling those that do names...and that you think it will spoil the sport is not enough reason for me to change my mind... baiting is alive and well in many states...
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2009/01/19 19:36:32
    #17
    gobyking
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 19:52:28 (permalink)
    Lets just say I NEVER have hunted over a food plot or one of your C'mere deer piles you want so bad. Those that have for the food plots are still legal. If (and I hope it never is) baiting is legalized, I still won't hunt over it because there is no CHALLENGE in it. You still can't hunt for bear or deer over it, so go write an email to your buddies in the PGC so you can get it your way.

    I was climbing trees by hand when I was a kid to bowhunt, is that more challenging to you? Like I need your double talk approval. You must be a doubly lazy hunter Doc to want to hunt with a bait pile and a crossbow from long range.

    Just one more reason I am glad I now have a new recurve and can now say whatever I want and you have no response. BTW, it is really hard but I have shot some during the snow.
    post edited by gobyking - 2009/01/19 19:53:04
    #18
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 19:53:26 (permalink)
    Your all for baiting but agaist poaching (which baiting is considered). Sounds like your all for everything that will make it easier to harvest a deer. Thats not what hunting is about, hunting is about using your knowledge and skill to successfully harvest a deer (the weapon is just a tool) and passing the knowledge and skill onto the youngsters which you dont want them to be able to shoot bucks. Sounds like you dont want the deer to have a chance in hell to survive through the hunting seasons but want more deer and bigger bucks. Not to try and offend you but your prioritys are kind of bass ackwards.

     
    1....poaching is illegally killing a deer.... baiting is legal up to 30 days... then illegal now because you are enticing deer into an area.. they are NOT the same thing....
     
    2... I have no problem with a youngster THAT HAS A LICENSE shooting a buck... I said mentored youths.. they do not have a license... If some one is going to shoot that B&C 180 buck in the neighborhood I feeel they should have at least paid for a license to do so... 
     
    3... I have never said I wanted more or bigger bucks.. I'm pretty happy with my area just the way it is...
     
    4... as for making thru hunting season... 80% not making it is pretty high right now in my mind.. so the majority of our deer do not have a chance in hell of making it anyhow.......  so if I shoot my yearly deer feeding on corn.. or at a food plot... or eating acorns.. or sleeping.. what's the differenc I can still only kill what I have tags for ???????????
     
     
    #19
    Ironhed
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 20:47:43 (permalink)
    Using your words..... what would be the challenge in sitting in a treestand over looking a food plot are those hippocrites too ??????


    If you think hunting over food plots is easy(especially here in SW PA), well, you don't have a clue to what you are talking about.

    Ironhed
    #20
    gobyking
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 21:06:19 (permalink)
    80% winter kill rate?
    Where is that number from?
    When has there ever been an 80% winter kill rate?
     
    You do not give the whitetail much credit for being able to survive. Highest I ever heard of was back in the severe winter of 77-78 with a guesstimate of 35-40%. More internet talk to support your views on hunting.
    #21
    A1H Skyraider
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 21:36:30 (permalink)
    I cancelled my NRA membership when they cut funding for some youth programs I was involved in.
     
    I am for full inclusion, but what the hell does the NRA have to do with this debate at all.  Why are the poking their nose in archery business.  Nothing to do now I guess since they lost the election.  Im a member of SCI I would expect them to to somehting but the nra mission involves "firearms".  GEESH

    "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the
    gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill
    #22
    S-10
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 21:40:17 (permalink)
    If you think hunting over food plots is easy(especially here in SW PA), well, you don't have a clue to what you are talking about.

    Ironhed

     
    If that's the case then why do you go to the time, work, and expense to do it year after year. Why is there a multi-million dollar industry just to support it.  Of course it is easier, just as killing a deer with a crossbow is easier than with a compound. If it wasn't easier or better no one would be doing either. It's just not guaranteed.
    #23
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 21:45:05 (permalink)
    goby ..
     
    you are UNBELIEVABLE !!!!
     
    where did you get this
     
    80% winter kill rate?
    Where is that number from?
    When has there ever been an 80% winter kill rate?

     
    I do not see anything about winter kill anywhere in this thread  you're just playing your usual silly games and silly posts????????

    #24
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 21:47:31 (permalink)
    S-10 wrote
    Of course it is easier, just as killing a deer with a crossbow is easier than with a compound

     
    Of course it is easier, just as killing a deer with a compound is easier than with a recurve or longbow
     
     
     
    Your point is ??????????????????????
    #25
    gobyking
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 21:50:51 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

    4... as for making thru hunting season... 80% not making it is pretty high right now in my mind.. so the majority of our deer do not have a chance in hell of making it anyhow.......  so if I shoot my yearly deer feeding on corn.. or at a food plot... or eating acorns.. or sleeping.. what's the differenc I can still only kill what I have tags for ???????????



     
    What this?????????
     
    Make yor posts more clear and everyone will know what you are talking about. Even so, 80% kill ratio every year is ridiculous whatever way you cut it. Mr Shortcut.....
    #26
    S-10
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 22:02:34 (permalink)
    Take Goby's advice Doc and while your at it I was answering Ironheds post not yours, but if it would have been directed at you it is only because you look at hunting as a way to kill two doe to fill your freezer and the easier it is the better you like it. Many others like their hunting to be a bit of a challenge which is something you apparantly don't understand.
    #27
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 22:26:56 (permalink)
    You are right I do not "get" where guys can continue to talk about the challenge of deer hunting...

    I hate to talk about this on an internet because it is to easy to say I am leaning towards anti-hunting...

    But I am not....  just trying to show how deer hunting has become much less challenging and almost easy....

    Just trying to see why everyone thinks deer hunting is so hard and challenging with all the modern add ons to everything...

    If half of you would have grown up with your ideas of today and egos... you would have quit deer hunting LONG AGO and LONG before the "good old days" of just having to sit and wait for one of those 30 to 40 deer of the 80s and 90s came by....


    When I started you had a rifle of some sort.. usually just one..
    almost all the weapons were more primitive....

    open sights on rifles no scopes to use at 300 yards..... no compounds... no cover scents.. no sex lures.. no portable tree stands.. no decoys.... no rattling.. no grunt calls... no bleat calls...if you were on private land and LUCKY you were allowed to build a wooden tree stand... no range finders... no food plots planted to attract deer... you just had food sources in the woods and farm crops to rely on.. and a couple years there were ARs and no doe hunting in there too........

    TALK ABOUT CHALLENGING !!!!

    Today's methods of deer hunting are more modern and more technical... but are  IMHO no where near as challenging as the old days... it is eaiser now than ever to harvest a deer if you are in an area that has deer

    If a deer can not see you, smell you, and you can sit all day so he can not hear you moving around... you can also "call" to him making him think it is hot doe...  you can put a decoy out to even make him think he sees another deer...  etc etc etc

    GO ahead bash away guys --- I know you will.. but please do not accuse me of being anti-hunting.... I AM NOT...

    I still enjoying deer hunting.. it's just to bad so many of you were not hunting when it really was challenging.... but as I said time goes on and in the case of hunting all the new "stuff" just makes it less and less challenging and more and more easy to get in a positon to harvest a deer.....


    but remember you just read how it WAS ALOT MORE challenging in my day now it is obviously easier. compared to then.. 

    let's just hear why you think it is STILL challenging....

     
    and BASH away ---  viewers need a good laugh at my expense....
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2009/01/19 22:32:02
    #28
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 22:37:29 (permalink)
    All that yapping and you still want to hunt over bait with a compound bow that can shoot a hundred yards during archery season. You don't have to use any of them Doc and many don't. I was there doc, I'am older than you, my first 12-15 archery bucks were taken with a Bear recurve, fingers, wood arrows standing on a tree limb. When you and I can no longer use a bow then we can get a permit for a crossgun. For now lets keep it as challenging as we can. Save the meat hunting for gun season. Time for my nap
    #29
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    RE: NRA supporting X-bow expansion in Pa. 2009/01/19 22:40:36 (permalink)
    One last point..
     
    I do see one thing that many of today's deer hunters do that is challenging.....
     
    They put all this pressure on themselves to get a BIG buck... no scrubs.. has to be 8 or better etc.... and that is the only challenge.... it's not a challenge of getting a deer or deer hunting as such.. it's an ego thing.... 
     
    It has gotten so easy to just get a deer they do this to make it challenging..
    see how so many are willing to pass on deer  for the challenge of a bigger one.... again not a challenge of deer hunting.. it's the ego thing about a big one or the biggest one...
     
    in my day it was a challenge to find and get even a spike ....
     
    I'm done on this one
    #30
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