Change is in the air

PUBLIC ENCOURAGED TO REVIEW AND COMMENT

http://www.dec.ny.gov/press/42224.html

there are some serious new regs up for public comment and if you don't speak up you won't be heard.

E-MAIL- fishregs@gw.dec.state.ny.us

SNAIL MAIL- Shaun Keeler, New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, Bureau of Fisheries, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233-4753.

i can't make it any easier! we have until April 4th to comment.

the big ones as i see it-

Prohibit the act of chumming with fish eggs to protect against fish being harvested specifically for purposes of taking eggs and using them as a method to aggregate and concentrate fish to assist in their fishing success.

Prohibit the sale of trout eggs to prevent the harvest of trout for the purposes of selling eggs for the use in tributary fisheries by anglers.

Restrict the use of weight on the line, leader, swivels or artificial flies used in the Salmon River Fly Fishing only area to reduce snagging of salmonids and provide consistency to the Great Lakes regulations.

Refine the allowable fishing tackle that may be used in the special regulations fly fishing catch-and-release areas on the Salmon River in Oswego County to offer an unimpeded traditional fly fishing experience.

DO YOUR PART

Same here.

Restrict weight.... thats a good one.

They plan to run around with powder scales weighing every fly in each persons fly box? Who's to say the size 6 black stone sitting next to the size 6 brown stone you weigh doesnt have 50grams of lead in it. Unrealistic.

I'd have to agree with you pa, I fished the SR last year for the first time and saw enough obvious snagging to keep the WCOs in NY busy all day.
 
I saw one lady with a plastic egg on a huge hook and a ton of weight. Her technique was to cast it out, then just rip it as hard as she could through the pool at the Black Hole.

I think long leaders is really the issue here.Its rare to foul hook a fish with a 2 foot leader.Im glad i dont salmon fish anymore.When i first started fishing for salmon i have to say i was foul hooking fish.It felt like i never hooked a fish in the first place when it was hooked on the outside of the mouth.No thrill in not haveing a fish bite.Can you catch a steelhead on a dry fly in the peak of winter?I only fly fish for bass and pike ,so if you can i would love to break out my fly rod on the sr,so please let me know how.

ORIGINAL: OldSalt

The new weight restriction regs for the LFZ do take place this year, Oct. 1st if I remember correctly. The No weight regs. for the UFZ are already in place, no weight whatsoever May somethin' thru Aug. 15th.

This river needs the use of weight in most areas, depending upon season, flows, and tackle. The fish have acclimated to the type of system that is The Salmon River, and do behave differently than Pacific salmon from out west. This river is unique in it's own right from any other system that has migratory fish, this is why the styles and techniques that have developed from this area, high sticking, noodle rods, different type of float techniques, etc. are all successful here and should be allowable within reason and all are a direct result and influence from this fishery.

Tight lines,

OldSalt

 
I've used mostly egg patters up there with success, I don't know how you would get the fly to the strike zone without weight.... I'm mean is that what they are saying???I can't use split shot to get the fly down????

Yea, I could use a sink tip but I prefer the flexibility of using different amounts of weight depending on the stream conditions and current velocity...I mean one split shot will be good in a pool but I might add weight to fish in a riffle.... not being able to do that just seems stupid.

is not the river that  is unique is the people ,that are unique 90% of anglers in this river learn to snag fish and 10%then learn how to truly  fish and those that are true fisherman most of the time have no chance to legitimately hook a fish ,with all the snagging ,river crossing, guys with their  polarized sunglasses hook and rod in had just ready to drop that giant weight in front of the fish, and pick that tip up at the right moment and" bam" salmon or steelhead in the****.we all done it or seen it ,is not the river is the mind set ,traditional fishing is the most challenging and less invasive way of fishing ,were you don't absolutely have to get a fish every time .If you fool the fish he will surface and take your fly or rejected it .the prevailing form of fishing of this time in this beautiful river is the same mind set that decimated the Atlantic salmon more the a 100 years ago sadly hasn't change much since then, just change the spear nets pitch fork for rods reel and hooks bad habits die hard .I saw a old gentleman 2 years ago hook a steelhead with a floating and a and a giant dry fly Sunny afternoon of august after two  hours of trying a big eruption of water and 5 seconds later that fish was gone he tolme and I believe he had hook 12 fish that season landed 9 .I never though that was possible after many year of seeing people snag fish indiscriminately I was stating to believe that was the way, there are other ways ,just takes a different mind set and some humility should  all try it  some day ....soone .tight lines

Be aware that as things usually go, comments on these proposals now are probably wasted words as the big discussion on these changes went down a year and a half ago.  But there are two proposal for 2010 out that are not on the DEC site yet, but were talked about by the Region 8 fisheries manager at the last MC Fish Board meeting, and should be on the agenda for the State of the Lake meetings coming up in March.  One is for a 1 brown trout limit on the tribs, proposed by trib anglers from the west side of the state who are sick of seeing the slaughter on 18 mile and the Oak.  The second is much more sinister, and would end the 21" size limit on rainbows out on the Lake, proposed by Charter Captains who say they are killing too many undersize fish trying to get their clients into three 21 inchers.  If I remember correctly, these are the same guys who claimed they didn't target steelhead when it was a one fish limit that was proposed, and then argued against the 25" size as that didn't allow then to get any.  I'm all in favor of dropping the 21" size limit, just make it a one RT limit and you have to keep the first fish you catch if you're trolling with treble hooks.  Then they can target Salmon.  If they aren't going after kings, maybe we should stop stocking them and put that capacity into RT production.  But this one looks to put us right back where we were before the whole brouhau 2 years ago that was "compromised" as the 21" limit. 

In Region 8, the State of the Lake meeting will be held on March 11 at 7 PM at Engle Auditorium at Rochester Institute of Technology.  Engle is in the Student Union Building, drive to the visitor kiosk and they'll tell you where you can park.  I haven't seen an anonouncement for Region 7 or 9.  Also, be aware that DEC is trying to get comments on these proposals out of the way early, and I don't recall any big announcement about getting proposed changes to the State, but show up for these meetings and make some noise about this chicanary, or it could be back to few and far between on steelies in the tribs. King Davy has made some interesting observations on a reverse correlation between distance to offshore deep water and the numbers of steelhead that return to a trib, noting that at Oak and 18 Mile, where the trollers can be into the deepwater in 1 or 2 miles, the steelhead returns are nowhere near as good as in the Genesee, where trollers have to travel 5 or more miles offshore to start hitting steelies in the summer.  Also understand that King Davy, Chrome, Griz, Connie Rogers, myself and some others have been making a lot of noise on this issue for a long time, and are less likely to be taken seriously in a new discussion (the same old whiners), but if all the folks who were showing up in the tributary creel surveys make some noise, that might have an impact.  As Griz pointed out in the last discussion, it is a matter of fairness, the Charter industry has all the fish in the Lake for better than half the year, we on the tribs get one month of beat salmon, one month of browns, and really only have steelhead for the rest of the time.  An equitable distribution of the resource demands a one fish trophy status for the rainbows, Lake or River!  Personally I think it ought to be 1 fish and 25", but that has as much chance as a snowball in hell.  But if you disagree with this allowance of wholesale harvest of steelhead by the charter boats, get out to these meetings and make some noise, because the Charter industry is already making it in the backrooms with the DEC fisheries people, or at the so-called stakeholders meetings, from which most trib interests are excluded because we aren't redundantly organized like the charter people.

L13 

(Quoting Lucky 13)
"But there are two proposal for 2010 out that are not on the DEC site yet, but were talked about by the Region 8 fisheries manager at the last MC Fish Board meeting, and should be on the agenda for the State of the Lake meetings coming up in March.  One is for a 1 brown trout limit on the tribs, proposed by trib anglers from the west side of the state who are sick of seeing the slaughter on 18 mile and the Oak."
 
Way long overdue and welcomed. The Brown trout fishery has been in steady decline on the western tribs for the last several years. I never understood why this was not enacted to all trout species.
 
(Quoting Lucky 13)
"The second is much more sinister, and would end the 21" size limit on rainbows out on the Lake, proposed by Charter Captains who say they are killing too many undersize fish trying to get their clients into three 21 inchers.  If I remember correctly, these are the same guys who claimed they didn't target steelhead when it was a one fish limit that was proposed, and then argued against the 25" size as that didn't allow then to get any.  I'm all in favor of dropping the 21" size limit, just make it a one RT limit and you have to keep the first fish you catch if you're trolling with treble hooks.  Then they can target Salmon.  If they aren't going after kings, maybe we should stop stocking them and put that capacity into RT production.  But this one looks to put us right back where we were before the whole brouhau 2 years ago that was "compromised" as the 21" limit."
 
Figures this would happen and I'm not surprised at all. I am very interested in the stream creel census this year for steelhead. I think I speak for many on this board, but this has been a banner steelhead year and I wonder how much the cull size limit (on the lake) attributed to this. May be a 1 fish limit is better, but I am not a biologist. Targeting thermo clines on the lake for steelhead is like shooting a "wingless duck is a dry pond."
 
Everyone who is reading this also keep in mind that we will have a new political environment taking shape in the SR area, which may have a vast impact on our fishery. Lucky 13 has pounded this latest and greatest attempt (by our lake fishing friends) to re-tract hard fought proposals made for the trib fishermans benefit. He is 100% correct about getting involved with this and trust me your voice is welcomed and the DEC wants to hear it. If trib anglers do not how up or are adequately represented at these meetings, then our wishes will never be heard and beneficial proposals (for the trib fisherman) will never be seen. This is a simple fact. King Davey, Griz and others have been all over this and we should be very thankful for there time, effort and involvement.
 
Write your letters or attend this meeting (if you can) and voice your opinion in a civil/professional manner. You'll opinion will be appreciated.
 
I hope King davey or the Griz chime in on this post. Thanks Lucky 13 for this post.
 

 
 
 
 

What Old salt says is true in every post.Once someone learns to fish the river, not the fish,foul hooking is almost obselete. Can you picture the lower flyzone with a bunch or speyrods and guy's trying to rollcast and zing flies,I think it will make good viewing.Personally I wish the lower flyzone would go away and just make it no fishing from the bridge up to the lower wire.