CAPTAIN HOOK
Wonder why they don't just tranquilize the deer and test for CWD. Seems a shame to kill off all the ones that aren't infected with the virus. This is one stupid radical plan with no guarantees at all other than the basic lowering math kill.
Take away so many and the virus goes down in numbers ......no sh#t !....but it's still there !

Currently, deer have to be killed to test for CWD. They are working on a test than can be done without killing the deer. 

The cause is a Prion which is an infectious protein particle. It is not the typical virus or bacteria that causes most diseases. This infectious prion can remain in soils for decades and that is the problem with it. The western states became ground zero but the interstate trading and selling of animals that were infected has spread the disease to many parts of the country. It has the potential to be very bad for the cervid family. Currently it has not been proven that the disease can be transmitted to humans through consumption of an infected animal but all it would take is one mutation is it could leap species.
 
The western states seem to have been able to manage CWD through strict regulations. It is relatively new to the east so game agencies are just getting  their feet wet trying to stay ahead of it.
 
I am not sure anybody knows the most effective way to contain or eliminate it is. But doing nothing is not the answer.

CAPTAIN HOOK
If it stays in the soil for "decades" that sounds like an impossible battle right now . Wonder if it affects other wild or tame animals in the area also ?

 
Only cervids. That is the concern here cause of our relatively small but important elk population.
 

Seems it would to me other wise they have some kind of immunity or it spreads another way. I guess we'll hopefully let the biologists and scientist figure something, but this sounds like a major death blow to hunting in those areas affected for a long time and maybe all deer hunting period !

 
It may be but it I tough to really know the long term outcomes. It has been around out west for a very long time and it seems to have been somewhat controlled. It is possible the animals will evolve to resist CWD through natural selection.
 

Contagious or not if an animal or fish is sick I'm surely not eating the meat  !

 
That's the problem with CWD. A deer can be CWD positive but have no signs. It is only at the end of the process do they exhibit symptoms. A deer can live several years being positive before the disease manifests into symptoms. The only way to know if a deer is CWD positive is to have it tested.
 

Thanks to all the antler deer growing farms for all the rich boys to hunt we end up with hunting nightmare !

That is part of the issue. Cervids are also farmed for meat. Most of the wild game served in this country and around the world is farmed.

DarDys
Why is doing nothing not the answer?
It doesn’t affect humans.

 
Not yet. These type of diseases can mutate and jump barriers.
 
As far as doing nothing. Wisconsin which has areas with high infection rates, has seen significant declines in deer populations in these areas. The state is also suffering very rapid hunter loss coinciding with the CWD outbreak. The fact is, and you will probably disagree, is that many hunters just don't want to take the chance of eating an infected deer.
 

It doesn’t kill deer until late in their life 7+ years old), if at all.

Most deer are resistant to it.

 
Not sure where you are getting your information from? Current research shows CWD is always fatal and cervids have died long before 7 years old. Last I read 3-4 years is relatively common for animals that were infected early in life.

dpms

DarDys
Why is doing nothing not the answer?
It doesn’t affect humans.

 
Not yet. These type of diseases can mutate and jump barriers.
 
As far as doing nothing. Wisconsin which has areas with high infection rates, has seen significant declines in deer populations in these areas. The state is also suffering very rapid hunter loss coinciding with the CWD outbreak. The fact is, and you will probably disagree, is that many hunters just don't want to take the chance of eating an infected deer.
 

It doesn’t kill deer until late in their life 7+ years old), if at all.

Most deer are resistant to it.

 
Not sure where you are getting your information from? Current research shows CWD is always fatal and cervids have died long before 7 years old. Last I read 3-4 years is relatively common for animals that were infected early in life.

My information came from conversations with the research team at Purdue. Conversations are those things that gets the research results that do not get published because they are contrary to the narrative of those funding the research.

Those conversations revealed, at the time (this was a few years ago) that no, as in none, not a single one, nada, deer in the wild had been found dead due to CWD. Those that died in captivity were 7+ years old (most approaching 9) and the cause of death was CWD and other complications due to age. In other words, they died with CWD, not necessarily of it.

But, just for debate’s sake (I really appreciate the friendly discourse), let’s make the leap that deer die of CWD. Let’s take the further leap that they die at an earlier age, like 3-4 years. And finally, let’s take the leap that a significant portion of the population is susceptible (most are actually resistant, just like every other creature — even the plague didn’t kill everyone). In other words, it is a perfect storm in favor of CWD.

If nothing is done, what percentage of the deer population dies?

Is it greater than, less than, or equal to the 50-60% of the population that the PGC proposes killing for this “experiment” if the originally proposed area of Scotch Valley were included (which it is not due to the information provided in previous posts about the very wealthy landowners threatening legal action)?

Is it greater than, less than, or equal to the 75-90% of the population in the newly proposed kill area (since the kill goal number, not percentage, was not adjusted from the highly populated Scotch Valley area that is now off the table)?

Because if less deer die by doing nothing, and let nature take its course, that is the way to go.

Keep in mind, the situation is probably no where near the perfect storm for CWD as hypothesized above; there is no way to know that the deer killed have or are even susceptible to CWD; and that it will cause even more hunters to abandon the sport.

I’ll take my chances on doing nothing.

On a side note, longer seasons probably will not work in this area either. You can’t shoot what you can’t see.

I spent over 100 hours on stand this season — mornings and evenings on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, plus evenings on Fridays, for the last three weeks of archery and the general season. I saw one legal buck in archery (too far and too close to dark to try to call) and 6 does ( same deal, too far, too close to dark). In the general season, I saw two spikes, three does, and one unidentifiable, all on the same evening (does were right at dark and probably after legal shooting hours). That was it.

I heard a grand total of 5 shots in the general season, including the SGL, which is less than 1/2 mile away, that the PGC proposes baiting for this slaughter. I heard no shots in archery (sorry, had to lighten this up a bit).

I had a senior hunter who hunted either the morning or evening of the early senior doe season, plus all day the opening day, and either the morning or evening of the Mondays and Wednesdays of the general season. He saw zero deer. He heard 7 shots, including the opening day.

The neighbor to the south had 4 hunters that were out part of every day of archery and the general season. They killed no deer in archery and no deer in the general season. They did fire 4 shots in the general season at does, but did not hit anything.

My wife’s relatives hunt the 5 properties to the north and east. They killed two does, one fawn (female), and one non AR legal buck by a junior hunter — all in archery season. They saw no deer during the first week of the general season, so they gave up and did not hunt the second week.

This is similar to what other friends and neighbors were seeing within about a 5 mile radius. Many gave up after going 3-5 times without seeing a single deer.

So, purposely cutting the population for an experiment isn’t viewed too fondly.

DarDys
The drop in hunter numbers around this area has nothing to do with CWD and all to go with going 3-5 days without seeing a deer.

I would agree. CWD is not well established here in Pa. I hope it stays that way. 

Two Squirrel Monkeys were inoculated with brain tissue from a CWD infected Mule Deer and became infected. Thus proving that the disease is transferable to primates. It really makes me wonder why Cows have not become infected. Perhaps we will all become vegans. You all must already be aware of the prion disease that has been present in Squirrels with fairly good chance humans may have got the Creutzfeldt- Jacobs disease from eating squirrels.

treesparrow
Two Squirrel Monkeys were inoculated with brain tissue from a CWD infected Mule Deer and became infected. Thus proving that the disease is transferable to primates. It really makes me wonder why Cows have not become infected. Perhaps we will all become vegans. You all must already be aware of the prion disease that has been present in Squirrels with fairly good chance humans may have got the Creutzfeldt- Jacobs disease from eating squirrels.

Since I’m fairly familiar with academic DOE (design of experiment); how studies are funded; and academic careers made, here is a little view of studies such as this.

Remember back in 8th grade physics how the experiments only worked “in a vacuum?” Same deal here. It all comes down to possibly vs. probablity.

This study shows that on an extremely small cohort that taking CWD tissue directly from the brain/spine from a known infected animal (the quantity is unknown, but typically in these types of DOE start at 1000X or more of the maximum possible level) and injecting it directly into the brain (and more than likely, into a very specific spot). And the CWD was transferred. No kidding. Pour water in a glass and it gets wet. So it is a possibility.

In the academic study business, once there is a possibility, on the broadest terms (usually 3-5 year study to get there), the study ends with something like “however, further study is needed.” This means another funding grant and another 3-5 years of research. Typically, one variable is changed, like cutting the dose in half (still way over the maximum); expanding the cohort size (to understand if the original results were statistically valid); or anything else that fits those finding the study narrative, by still showing that the results are possible, but staying far away from the word “probable.” Of course, the study ends with the same “and further research is needed” claim.

Further research is needed to again come closer to reality, and probability; get more grant funding; publish more articles (very important if the researcher is trying to achieve tenure — publish or perish is the term); and push the next research out another 3-5 years in order to get closer to spending the researcher’s entire career, up to retirement, on a single study area, where, thanks to publishing a whole slew of articles, they are now revered in a small academic community as subject matter experts.

If the studies go one for 15, 20, 25 years, the researcher never gets to the probability end of the study before retirement. Throughout, they have proven that whatever they are studying is possible. Winning the Powerball is possible. But not probable. Winning the Powerball is possible twice in a row, after all, it is just a random number generator. But it is no very probable. Winning the Powerball 1,000 times in a row is possible, but the probability is low.

Now, if the study mirrored reality, meaning, that a statistically significant cohort group of monkeys (read that as probably thousands, and to do it right, not the same species); were fed cervid flesh, the same flesh humans eat, not the brain or spinal tissues (which is very rarely eaten by humans, but a small population probably does — too bad for them); in the quantities proportional to how much venison the typical human eats over a period of time; and that cervid flesh came from a cohort group that had the same percentage of infestation of CWD that wild populations exhibit, them the experiment would come closer to getting to the probability of humans contracting CWD from cervids in the basis of how they actually consume venison.

But that study will more than likely never get done. There is no money in it. There are no articles (maybe one) in it. And, most importantly, there is no career long opportunity in it.

So if the PGC wants to wipe out more deer to lower numbers to help stop the spread of CWD then why in the hill are there antler restrictions ? Why is doe and buck both not legal on opening day of rifle ? The PGC makes no common sense, they want deer removed or numbers lowered but restrict the shooting ! How much quicker will this spread to other areas with lower hunter numbers now and more deer being protected with restrictions ?
 
So hunters need educated more on CWD and have to learn " to accept the wipeout phase" in isolated areas that they want to do. Even if one deer has been detected they want to wipe out the whole herd in that area....hmmm I believe deer can roam 10 miles without an issue in a day . Not very isolated to me ! Somebody needs to educate the PGC that all they are doing is masking the problem with a fast slaughterhouse remedy with no guarantees of stopping one case of CWD. 
 
So much for trophy deer in those areas after the PGC Armageddon  ! Keep micro managing hunting it's working great in Pa. just look at all the happy hunters leaving the sport ! 

They are both legal in CWD zones with a CWD tag every day of every season.

Still can’t shoot them if you can’t see them.

I believe it has been 5 seasons of CWD, maybe 4, maybe 6.

The system of CWD tags changed. At first, up until 2 years ago, it was an online application or mail-in. I’m not sure how many one could get as a maximum, but I got 2. I think the number sold was capped at 14,000. Yep, that many. They cost the same as a doe tag.

Two years ago, the system switched to being able to buy over the counter at time of license purchase. Maximum was 2. The price was still the same a a doe tag.

If you wanted the deer tested, you could request it from the PGC. It was free, but took 4-6 months to get the results.

DarDys
They are both legal in CWD zones with a CWD tag every day of every season.

Can you link me this info please or copy and paste here? 

DarDys
Check out the DMA info on the PGC website.

Instead of calling it the CWD program or permit like they did in the early portion of the program, it now falls under the DMAP program.

Ah. Didn't realize DMAP allowed antleress the entire season. 

They had to change the name from CWD to DMA using DMAP because they did too good a job of educating hunters about CWD and then thinking they scared them into not shooting does.

BTW, DMA and DMAP are required to have 100% reporting, kill or not, under penalty of not getting a permit the next year.

So where is that data? And does it correspond with the kill ratio numbers that the PGC used to calculate the regular harvest?