More Shops closing

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chrisrowboat
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2008/01/16 19:59:22 (permalink)

More Shops closing

I traveled to Pittsburgh today and stopped by Orchard View Angling on Washington Road in Mc Murray. Sad to say one of the owners stated they were going to close.
Fact, it is a tough time for the small fly shops.
What will happen when they disappear?  
Chris
#1

51 Replies Related Threads

    HardCore Fisher
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/16 20:54:52 (permalink)
    I think they were the only fly shop in Washington County if where their at now is still considered Washington County.
     
    Ronnie
    #2
    avidangler
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/16 22:07:30 (permalink)
    Hard to say what will happen once they go but one thing can be done to save them.  When possible to do business at a local shop do it, don't order from larger chains.  Thats my 2 cents...

    Born to fish, Forced to work...

    "Balls deep, or why even bother"
    #3
    Youghman
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 09:41:42 (permalink)
    We lost 2 great, small shops, The Fishing Post and Antique Rifleworks, in Greensburg, Westmoreland Co. a few years ago. They were experts in their fields, helpful and a great place to just go in and BS.
    They couldn't compete w/ Gander Mt. and WallyWorld.
    Another case of Big Know-Nothings getting your dollar.
    Sadly, it's the same in hardware stores, grocers, feed mills etc., etc. in every area that the working man could rely on for a knowledgeable answer and a good product.
    Hell, my wife laughs at me because every time I find something stamped, "Made in The U.S.A." I dance a little jig.
    Like Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
     
    #4
    elephanthead
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 10:24:02 (permalink)
    Just talked to owner (Rich) and they are closing . Next Friday is it. Everythimg at 30% off. Might want to check them out before it's too late. Their # is (724) 942- 5485 if you want to call to see if they have what you're looking for.  Dave
    #5
    Bughawk
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 12:08:11 (permalink)
    I have never been to that shop, but it is sad to hear that is closing.  I really like the smaller fly and tackle shops.  They usually have more interesting stuff and things you don't easily find in the one size fits all megastores.  The other great thing about the smaller shops is if you go there often the people will actually know your name.  It may sound corny, but there is something about going to a shop and having a conversation with the folks there where you feel more like a friend than just a customer.  Besides, I have gotten some great fly tying tips from people at the local shops in Erie.  
     
     

    pax vobiscum +
    #6
    KJH807
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 12:17:54 (permalink)
    sad to hear...
    the shop is a few minutes from my dads house, and i always tried to stop when i could...
     
    i think the internet/ ebay is a much (if not more) of a factor to this trend than the big-box stores...
     
    #7
    Loomis
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 12:35:10 (permalink)
    Youghman I used to live in the fishing post when I was a child.  John McAdams was a great guy and he really had some good things in that store.  I took my first fly tying class there when I was 9 years old it's really a shame to see that place go.  I now frequent Indiana Angler and buy almost everything there. 
     
     Its nice to support small honest businesses, once you buy there a decent amount and become friends with owners small price discounts can benefit you as well, plus the people who have in-house stores truly have a passion for fly fishing, not corporate benefit (which isn't a bad thing in most cases). 
    #8
    SilverKype
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 12:35:42 (permalink)
    Think it's called economies of scale fellas.  The higher the production, the lower a product can be sold.  Little guys will never win as they can't lower their prices that low. Sucks. The almight dollar is so valuable, especially now with gas prices.   Hate to be a waitress depending on tips..
    #9
    Texcobb99
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 13:01:30 (permalink)
    Great thread!!
     
    I used to work at a sporting goods store 20 years ago, that specialized in fishing.  We would get customers ask you 1,000 questions regarding a product, how to use it, how to catch fish with it, etc.... then turn around and buy it at a discount store.  What they didn't understand is I just saved them a ton of time and money from having to buy books or use trial and error.  It appears the value of somoeone's knowledge and experience is getting lost with quantity and convenience.  I am guilty to a degree as most are.  Now we have superstores where the help doesn't know anything about what they sell...if you can find the help.  We then need to buy books, spend time online, and rely on our online friends.  Thanks God for those!!  :-)
     
    When you go to Poor Richards\BAC or any other locally owned shop and ask them questions on how to fish, what is hitting, etc....don't complain about how you can get the stuff cheaper somewhere else, because you really can't.
    #10
    KJH807
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 14:01:29 (permalink)
    BUT
    what happens when our few shops only carry a few brands
    what if i don't want an orvis or simms???
     
     
    here is my senario...
     
    I needed a wading jacket...
    and bought a patagoinia deep wading on ebay for 150, it didn't fit so the search continued...
    I posted questions on this board and did my research...
    i was down to Patagonia SST, Cloudveil 8x, or Simms Rivertek...
    I called shops, and could only find the simms to try on at International Angler...
    I wanted to support a local shop...
    so i went to the IA shop and tried a range of Simms and orvis jackets a was not impressed...
    the Rivertek was going for 300, and i found the SST and 8x on ebay each for 175...
    I could not find the SST or 8x in any stores around here...
    and ordered the 8x... and i'm happy
     
    #11
    Trout About
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 14:57:50 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Youghman
    every time I find something stamped, "Made in The U.S.A." I dance a little jig.

     
    LOL.  Can't wait to see what you do when you pick up that new St. Croix!
    #12
    mook14
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 16:34:13 (permalink)
    THAT SUCKS!I have been dealing with them since I got into flyfishing ,took tying class with Donny built a rod with Rich.they would allways take time to give advise or show how to tye a fly try getting that at a box store.all my flyfishing stuff came from that store.I've talked to Rich last couple times I was there and I could see it coming,I wish both them the best.
    #13
    beerman
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 20:34:29 (permalink)
    Another recently closed down fly shop (local for me) was Books & Hooks Fly Shop in Girard, Ohio. 
    It went out of business two years ago.

    changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes....nothing remains quite the same



    The Beerman ~ Greg
    #14
    sstaz69
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 20:50:21 (permalink)
    Another bait shop (not a fly shop) is closing in Erie. Smitty's or Smith's bait is closing. It is an Erie landmark as far as I am concerned. The old man passed away a few years ago and now his son Jim is having some health problems causing him to close down the shop. Most people I know remember going to Smitty's with there father's 50 years ago. It's a sad thing to see and my heart goes out to the Smith family. I wish them well, get better Jim.

    The World is a Vampire
    #15
    Youghman
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 21:27:22 (permalink)
    Trout About-- What the stink are you doin' readin' and answerin' posts on the boards.
    You should be workin', gettin' my "Made in The U.S.A" rod finished. LOL
    #16
    crazy4ice
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 21:35:03 (permalink)
    where did you get the info on smittys  i think poor richards east looks to be closed up also
    #17
    sstaz69
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/17 21:43:17 (permalink)
    From the family

    The World is a Vampire
    #18
    fisherofmen376
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/18 15:27:43 (permalink)
    I agree with many of you as far as big stores that kill the "little guy."  BUt I do amke one exception, the fishing department as sportsman's warehouse is very knowedgable.  They are not just a superstore filled with idiots who don't know a riffle from a ritz cracker!  They actually have good information, unlike Dicks sporting goods, walmart or wherever else.  The local shops, you can never go wrong.  They are in it for the love...and for the money, rather than just the money. 

    "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
    Matthew 4:19
    #19
    griffon
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/18 15:45:05 (permalink)
    Fisher,  Your posts are generally well informed.  In this case you are wrong.  You really shouldn't name retailers' negatives until you learn a little bit about the people who work for them, the numbers of people that big companies hire, and how much good large companies do for the community.  I guarantee that the little shop is not donating millions of dollars to youth programs throughout the nation, along with millions to foundations such as St. Judes, Lance Armstrong Foundation...  It's always easy to blame the "big boys" without any consideration for the good they do.  Sorry guys but I take the other side of the fence on this.  Small retailers have their place, but they must be adaptable and find different niches in an everchanging retail environment (not a whole lot different than deer hunters in PA need to do if they wish to remain successful as changes are made).  Small retailers need to be shrewd business people and understand what the "average customer" is looking for, particularly in todays world of instant gratification and price conscious consumers. 
    post edited by griffon - 2008/01/18 15:49:38
    #20
    elephanthead
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/18 16:29:42 (permalink)
    Was just at  Orchard View and Rich still has a bunch of stuff left at really good prices. Should stop and see him before he goes out business next Saturday. His # is (724) 942-5485. Dave
    #21
    finhed
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/18 17:16:33 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: griffon

    Fisher,  Your posts are generally well informed.  In this case you are wrong.  You really shouldn't name retailers' negatives until you learn a little bit about the people who work for them, the numbers of people that big companies hire, and how much good large companies do for the community.  I guarantee that the little shop is not donating millions of dollars to youth programs throughout the nation, along with millions to foundations such as St. Judes, Lance Armstrong Foundation...  It's always easy to blame the "big boys" without any consideration for the good they do.  Sorry guys but I take the other side of the fence on this.  Small retailers have their place, but they must be adaptable and find different niches in an everchanging retail environment (not a whole lot different than deer hunters in PA need to do if they wish to remain successful as changes are made).  Small retailers need to be shrewd business people and understand what the "average customer" is looking for, particularly in todays world of instant gratification and price conscious consumers. 


    Wow.  You must work for Wal-Mart or a big box.  I'm on the other side of the fence in these conversations.  I've worked for the little guy, and am willing to give the little guy a little more so I don't have to give my money to million dollar per year earning executives that could give 2 hoots about their employees.  It's all about money for the big guy, and I know that's how our economy has evolved, but it doesn't mean it's a good thing.  So what if they give to charities, all the big ones are only making somebody else rich.  Some of these big box stores are just turning American jobs into Chinese jobs, not to mention making things more expensive.  The stupidity and poor knowledge (as previously mentioned in some of these places, not all) of most people that work these places is mind blowing.  But, every now and again you do get lucky.  But who at Wal-Mart,****s, or Gander is going to take you out in the parking lot to help you with your fly casting like many guys at the small shops will do or show you a new or quicker way to tie up a fly?  I agree with your niche philosophy: all documented, all true, but that's hard to do for bait and fly shops as is the case here.

    I wonder how much a dozen minnows would be at Wal Mart...first of you would probably actually get twelve instead of the "dozen" like the little guys used to sell (more like 2 dozen) and I bet they would be more expensive than any shop around here.  Then you'd have to deal with the crowds, and the check out lines in order to pay for your minnows.  Plus, isn't part of the fishing experience and tradition to stop into the bait shop or fly shop and get the local buzz on where fish are biting, the recent action and maybe even learn something? 

    End rant.  Take it or leave it. 
    #22
    Fishchile
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/18 17:30:24 (permalink)
    I as well am on the other side of the fence.  The small shops are not going away.  The reality IMO is that it is a business.  Especially in the fly fishing world after the movie came out there were shops springing up all over.  The boom ended and the shops are now closing down.
     
    I know quite a few folks that own shops.  One went out of business because his rent got too expensive to compete.  Another is doing quite well and is one of the top high end rod retailers in the country.  The last is a fly shop located 5 minutes from a Bass Pro.  He could compete with all the big box store items except for clothing and waders.  His business is doing okay and his son now manages the fishing department for the competition.
     
    The reality is that many of the shops don't want to keep up with change.  One example is internet sales and shipping.
     
    At the end of the day we all work hard for out dollars and most of us will spend it where there is convenience, prices are lower and the service is good.
     
    On the advise end the little guy no longer has the market cornered.  We now have the internet with sites such as this one.
     
    Sorry for the rant.
     
    #23
    MackJ
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/18 19:25:13 (permalink)
    Retail establishments stay in business so long as they make money for the owners, and they make money when they provide what the people who spend money want.  For the wonderful advantages of the small shop being touted, it is a wonder there aren't twice as many.... but the truth is the small shops only give a very small segment of buyers what those buyers want and I am not about to pay more for less to subsidize the particular needs of other buyers. 
    #24
    FlashDance
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/18 21:01:28 (permalink)
    Blame the Internet.
    How many guys on this board bought stuff off a web site that a few years ago they would have bought in a brick and mortar store?
    The small guys that will remain, will do most of their business through a web site.
    Look at this site. How many of you have ever been inside the store in Erie?
    Now, how many have bought something off this web site?
    #25
    cp13
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/18 21:53:49 (permalink)
    i can honestly say, the reason i dont buy stuff off of the internet, is because i like to check something out before i pay for it and on the internet its impossible to do that, and i actually can say i like going to small shops like PR's and such because theres usually two or three employees in there with 2 customers meaning youre gunna get a few opinions and they know what theyre talking about...and i love finhed's point on minnows and bait, at a small shop, you go in an say  a dozen fatheads and a dozen shiners and you walk out with 50 minnows..
    #26
    swinger
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/19 07:20:34 (permalink)
    #27
    indsguiz
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/19 08:44:05 (permalink)
    Gentlemen,
          I'd like to throw in an opinion if I may.  I really enjoy shopping the small stores. However this comes with a BUT!.  Some of them seem to only cater to the guy wanting simms or sage or Orvis.  I enjoy a place like PR west where I can take a friend who is new to fly fishjing and get him hooked up with decent equipment at a reasonable price.  I realize that a store makes more money on a Sage rod than on a cortland or ugly stick but what about the people who just want starter equipment?  At least PR's offers the average guy affordable equipment.  I would figure that they woul make more money on three Browning rods going out the door than on one Sage sitting on the shelf.  Just my opinion.
           This is just an example but I have a friend who I introduced to fly fishing and steelhead fishing; he waits every year for when we come up to re-supply at PR's because he can get more for his money.  He will also order from fish usa.  Why? Because of the initial service, and the prices. 
          I have to agree with the assessment that SOME big box stores don't have very knowledgable employees and many times they are run by managers who got their inventory from a corporate "sell" sheet.  recently a Gander Mtn opened in Bowling Green, KY and I was thrilled, (no more running to Nashville) till I saw their fly fishing inventory.  I had more, and better, gear in the back of my van and their prices for what they had was way off base.  I asked why there wasn't any more fly gear in the store and was told "There's no place to fly fish here in KY,  HUH?  The Cumberland River, Dale Hollow tailwaters, Barren Tailwaters, Nolin Tail waters, Green river, ect.  When I told the kid he said everyone only fishes for bass in Lake Cumberland.  Now if you want an overpriced Bass Rig . . . . .!  So this store has lost a potential customer.
          Like I said Just an opinion.
         

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
    #28
    chrisrowboat
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/19 09:16:17 (permalink)
     
    Jack,
    I have to agree with you.
    Also the best way to increase fly fisherman IMO is to offer bait supplies and fly supplies. The shops that carry bait and fly gear IMO are in a better business position and can carry their margins much more effective. The next year or so, I think more shops will close because of the costs of transportation.
    I have to put in $90 in fuel in 2 vehicles witch last year at this time would have been @$67. Hard to save up for new toys when you have to put it in the tank or in groceries.
    Pepsi 6 pack, that were $3.99 are now $4.50.
    Chris
    #29
    Bughawk
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    RE: More Shops closing 2008/01/19 10:17:25 (permalink)
    Not all fly shops are for high end customers.  Many do offer the more expensive equipment, but if you look a bit, you will find some more reasonably priced equipment as well.  They often have great sales and you can score a pair of nice waders for example for a huge mark down, or get a reel and they throw in the backing a line. The other major thing about the fly shops is the usually care the tying materials that the big chain stores don't offer. 
     
    The other thing to keep in mind is that not all the small shops sell the same things.  Sure there is overlap, but most tend to have a specific customer base in mind.  I find that I often have to go to more than one shop to find the specific materials I am looking for because no one of them has everything.  The diversity of the different shops is what is important as well as the lowest price you will find for your materials.
     
    For example, in Erie if you want the more high end rods, reels, waders, etc... we have a shop that is just for you.  They don't sell shiners, so you need to go to another store for them.  If you want a really good selection of tying materials, there is a third shop I have found that has a rather large selection of materials.  If you want to order something over the internet, our sponsor is right there to help you out.
     
    For me, I like having a variety of places to shop.  I think it is good for the sport and ultimately, I would guess it is good for the businesses as well.

    pax vobiscum +
    #30
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