Helpful ReplyHot!Elk Creek "Tubes" posted???????

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D-nymph
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 17:03:28 (permalink)
dano
I believe at one time when we discussed the nursery water option. WCO said that would not be feasible. (can't remember why). PA does use and posts certain sections of certain streams in the ANF as " fish refuge area" with no fishing or wading during a set period of time.
 
Under 58 Pa. Code §67.2 (relating to refuge areas), the Executive Director of the Fish and
Boat Commission (Commission), with the approval of the Commission, may designate waters as
refuge areas to which section 2306 of the Fish and Boat Code, 30 Pa. C.S. §2306 (relating to refuge
areas), shall apply. Section 2306 provides that the Commission may set aside, in its discretion, such
areas as it may judge best as refuge areas in which fishing or entry shall be prohibited for such
periods of time as the Commission prescribes. According to the regulation, the designation of waters
as refuge areas shall be effective upon posting of the waters after publication of a notice that the
waters have been so designated in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.


Yea, WCO says it's not feasible because they don't want to **** off landowners, I'd wager.
PFBC has already declared nursery waters at Trout Run & Godfrey Run, they could do it again, but they won't.
#31
mote1977
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 17:03:49 (permalink)
workcanwait....
Thanks for the replies.Bad news not happy about it but not surprised either.I shop Poor Richards they are always open and run a good shop.Can anyone confirm the upstream border of this property,is it up to the tubes or including the tubes????Keep this and other access loss in mind when your fishing be courteous to landowners and neighbors pick up litter instead of dropping it..... 

Upstream limit does not include the tubes from what I was told. It ends at the downstream side of them.
#32
Cold
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 17:04:02 (permalink)
KJH807
SteelSlayer77
 
 
I like the Montana stream access law better.  If a land owner wants privacy and is tired of the masses, then they should sell their land and move somewhere near by a smaller stream that doesn't get stocked.  The land value increase due to the publicly funded resource put there would more than pay for the cost of relocating. 
 



thanks for your entry in the "dumbest post of the year 2014" contest... you are the new front runner
congrats and good luck!





 
Beat me to it, KJH, but shouldn't it be 2013?
 
This close to the end of the year, with that much of a commanding lead, it'll be tough to beat.
#33
SteelSlayer77
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 17:08:33 (permalink)
KJH807
SteelSlayer77
 
 
I like the Montana stream access law better.  If a land owner wants privacy and is tired of the masses, then they should sell their land and move somewhere near by a smaller stream that doesn't get stocked.  The land value increase due to the publicly funded resource put there would more than pay for the cost of relocating. 
 



thanks for your entry in the "dumbest post of the year 2014" contest... you are the new front runner
congrats and good luck!





Since it's actually 2013, I believe you just took over the lead jack a$z. 
 
If it's good for Montana it's good for PA, would just need to get the PA constitution amended.  I agree your idea is much more feasible but mine was hardly the dumbest post of the year.  I did say it could be limited in some ways, not an exact replica of Montana. 
post edited by SteelSlayer77 - 2013/10/09 17:13:46
#34
D-nymph
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 17:09:11 (permalink)
Git Ahht Landownerz! Deez R ahr cricks!  We pay fur dem steEkHeadZ ta be stahked wif ahr licinz muney!
#35
SteelSlayer77
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 17:17:21 (permalink)
D-nymph
Git Ahht Landownerz! Deez R ahr cricks!  We pay fur dem steEkHeadZ ta be stahked wif ahr licinz muney!





So because some stream barely holding water today was used for commercial purposes in the early 1800s and deemed navigable anyone can wade through within the high water marks, but a publicly funded recreational resource in use today shouldn't give residents of the state the same right? 
#36
Cold
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 17:28:50 (permalink)
Seriously, dUUd.  
 
Your post was so dumb it might be the dumbest post of both 2013 and 2014.
#37
fisherofmen376
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 20:00:27 (permalink)
As Kevin said awhile ago, the real culprit here is the state not having the foresight years ago to make better arrangements.  They stocked a million fish, and a zillion people came (some slobs, most not).  The slobs do their slobbering on other peeps property (u down with OPP?) then capitalists moved in-within their rights-and persuaded landowners to do what is within THEIR rights.  I don't like it, but there's not much we can do other than boycott these businesses if indeed this is all true.  At this point i don't see the PFBC getting many more easements.  Im sure Beaver and others have researched and contacted every possible landowner.  There will unfortunately be more shoes to drop.  
On a positive note, I heard that 3 fish made it up the 4 mile fish ladder last month.....

"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
Matthew 4:19
#38
genieman77
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 20:01:03 (permalink)
SteelSlayer77
 
 
If it's good for Montana it's good for PA, would just need to get the PA constitution amended.  I agree your idea is much more feasible but mine was hardly the dumbest post of the year.  I did say it could be limited in some ways, not an exact replica of Montana. 




 
don't get me started
Do you know how BIG Montana is?
more people fish the TINY area of Erie Pa tribs each year than the ENTIRE POPULATION of  Montana ...
 
but you want to force the land owner to let a million cueballs tramp around, hoot 'n  holler and hi-five when they catch a fish , all because the land owner happens to have a ditch that runs thru  his backyard
 
gimmie a break ....what a bunch of selfish sumbeeches
 
 
..L.T.A.
 
#39
genieman77
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 20:04:56 (permalink)
fisherofmen376
As Kevin said awhile ago, the real culprit here is the state not having the foresight years ago to make better arrangements.  They stocked a million fish, and a zillion people came (some slobs, most not).




 
even if no slobs , it's the shear volume of us in such a small area that such a heavy weight
 
 
..L.T.A.
#40
NAsteelheader
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 20:38:55 (permalink)
If the land is posted and no public access is allowed, IT SHOULD BE DEEMED NURSERY WATERS. No individual should be permited to make profit from the fish that we pay as anglers to have stocked. this is not right. We buy our fishing liscense every year and some of us donate money through the 3cu's. Most steelhead fisherman donate to the 3cu's wether they know it or not. Every time that you buy skien or trout eggs, that's where the money goes.  THIS IS NOT RIGHT.  IT SHOULD BE STOPPED BY THE PAfish commission

It's your fish story,so tell it any way you want!!!
#41
pikepredator2
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 21:25:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mikastorm 2013/10/10 09:53:59
our taxes and license fees pay for the stocking of fish in these streams.  if a land owner is going to block access to we, the fishermen, and lease the fishing rights for "our" fish to a select group of paying customers, then said land owner should be charged an additional tax, a fish hoarding tax if you would. 
#42
spoonchucker
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 21:27:14 (permalink)
"THIS IS NOT RIGHT.  IT SHOULD BE STOPPED BY THE PAfish commission"
 
****ed right. The PF&BC should stop letting "YOUR" fish, swim all over someone else's property.

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside


The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL
#43
workcanwait....
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 21:30:02 (permalink)
"Maybe we can construct an artificial barrier at rt 5 preventing upstream passage of the artificial tax paid for fish so they cannot be privatized by someone seeking to generate income from our artificial fishery."
 
I think this was the dumbest reply.
Yeah cut off he flow of fish to all the water above tubes that is still accessible.BRILLANT!!!
 
#44
Esox_Hunter
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 22:03:52 (permalink)
The PFBC makes a conscious effort to avoid stocking trout in private, closed to the public fishing sections of trout waters.  Spoon just taught us that steelhead will not stay put and will at some point wind up in private non-accessible portions of the Erie ditches.  Every year for quite some time now we have experienced a reduction in publicly accessible steelhead water.  So with that said, why not take the same approach with steelhead stocking as we do with trout fishing and quit stocking the stupid things?  Why bother to allocate that much funding towards something that can't be fully utilized by the majority of the people contributing the money?
#45
flyfisherman
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 22:27:42 (permalink)
I made a post a few years back about this exact topic. Every year that goes by, less and less land is available to fish. Before you know it, every trib in erie will look like manchester. It was not that long ago when you could walk as far as you could fishing a particular creek. Now, you are lucky to be able to walk a few miles before coming across signs. Frustrating to say the least.
 
I cant really blame people who post their land to make money. 99% of you would do the same if you could. The problem is that there are too many fish, too many fisherman and just a little water. I think the best solution would be to classify it as nursery waters. It gets landowners their "privacy" and keeps fish in the water for the people who "OWN" them to catch. The challenge is enforcing that those nursery waters remain that way. good luck with that one.
 
#46
NAsteelheader
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/09 22:35:51 (permalink)
I can completely understand if the landowners don't want a zillion people tromping all over there land. However, they should not be permited to profit from it either!!!!!

It's your fish story,so tell it any way you want!!!
#47
fish12
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 07:26:41 (permalink)
And there's proably a steelhead fee coming or stream usage fee.
#48
D-nymph
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 09:39:10 (permalink)
SteelSlayer77
D-nymph
Git Ahht Landownerz! Deez R ahr cricks!  We pay fur dem steEkHeadZ ta be stahked wif ahr licinz muney!





So because some stream barely holding water today was used for commercial purposes in the early 1800s and deemed navigable anyone can wade through within the high water marks, but a publicly funded recreational resource in use today shouldn't give residents of the state the same right? 


No.
How would you like it if I or the state told you what to do with YOUR property?  Earlier, essentially what you said, is the steelhead are valuable to the public, and if the private landowners don't like it, they should sell their properties & move their families somewhere else.  Think about it.  I hope you are not older than 16.
#49
D-nymph
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 09:40:47 (permalink)
fish12
And there's proably a steelhead fee coming or stream usage fee.


There already is, the lake Erie stamp & trout stamp.
#50
SteelSlayer77
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 09:54:06 (permalink)
D-nymph
No.
How would you like it if I or the state told you what to do with YOUR property?  Earlier, essentially what you said, is the steelhead are valuable to the public, and if the private landowners don't like it, they should sell their properties & move their families somewhere else.  Think about it.  I hope you are not older than 16.




Well it's essentially already being done with the navigability rule on other trout streams, do you not agree with that current law either?
 
I own a home and close to 10 acres of property not all that far from Erie.  If I was lucky enough to have a resource like Steelhead put into my back yard for free, I would have no problem with that.  I'd sell it in a heart beat to the right person willing to pay a premium for the land, and buy a similar property in the same general area where it was more secluded.
#51
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 09:59:05 (permalink)
From Trout Run B&T website:
 
WOW  What a day!  I got my first piece of hate mail.  Thank you to Don S.  for checking your facts.

WE DID NOT LEASE THE PROPERTY ON ELK CREEK!!!! 
 For everyones' information,  the property was going to be posted by the landowner and then was leased by another local......Not us!! I can't afford it!!! We were approached by the gentlemen who leased the property, and asked if we would like the rights to guide on it.  If we refused, he was headed for the Ultimate Angler in Erie.  We accepted his offer............what would you do?  I don't necessarily agree with the entire thing either, but it was a business decision.  Again, we did not lease or post the property!
These are the facts!! If any of you post to the Fish Erie site, you have my permission to copy and paste this post.  There seems to be a great many rumors and outright lies going around.  Give us a call if you'd like. 
Thanks,
Karen
 
Funny, I check their website from time to time to see their fishing reports and no mention anywhere on their site of guide services that they offer.  Have also been in the shop a few times last year and never saw anything about guide services.  Wonder if their "guides" are really legit with all the credentials, or just a few friends looking to make a quick buck. 
#52
D-nymph
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 10:20:39 (permalink)
I certainly hope their "guides" are licensed & insured! 
 
"Hate mail"! haha.  I sent that e-mail to them.  Here is the body of the "hate mail":
 
Good job leasing that property on Lower Elk Creek.  You’ve forever lost my
business and that of my many friends.  Including the group of 40 out of state
anglers who were all going to be stopping in your shop next month.  Hope it was
worth it!  Greedy people like you are ruining Erie’s fishery forever.
 
Trout Run Bait & Tackle then flipped out a little bit sending me two e-mails, one of which is posted above and the second included comments like "real easy to talk big when hiding behind a computer" and some thing about "that's what I used to tell my middle school children" and that "you might like to take this chance to apologize".  sheesh.

I don't think they understand what a lease is either.  They are essentially sub-leasing the property, in other words they are leasing through a broker.
#53
D-nymph
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 10:22:50 (permalink)
SteelSlayer77
D-nymph
No.
How would you like it if I or the state told you what to do with YOUR property?  Earlier, essentially what you said, is the steelhead are valuable to the public, and if the private landowners don't like it, they should sell their properties & move their families somewhere else.  Think about it.  I hope you are not older than 16.




Well it's essentially already being done with the navigability rule on other trout streams, do you not agree with that current law either?
 



The Lehigh & Little J are rivers, not ditches, like the Erie tribs.  There are no other cases pending in PA that I'm aware of.  Elk Creek could possibly get that designation if someone was to pay for the lawyers to get it done.  Do you have the dough to get it done?  If so, go for it. This has been discussed here for years, and in great detail.
#54
D-nymph
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 10:27:00 (permalink)
They must've gotten more e-mails because they posted this last night:
 
I truly had no idea that having our guides fish on a private section of water would cause such a riot. Our guides will stick to public access from now on...
 
http://trout-run.blogspot.com/
 
If true, good for them.
#55
Loomis
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 10:35:28 (permalink)
Fished the middle of Elk creek yesterday and did awesome, went to the Manchester hole and caught a bunch too.
 
Water was low and clear, roped 2 saw many others.
 
Was thinking about fishing below the tubes heard there's a ton of fish there.
#56
Sharpefly
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 10:49:22 (permalink)
All of this was was brought up to or Commissioner Ed Mascharka last nite at the PSA meeting. The group of attends let him know how the fisherman feel about groups using all our stocked fish for there private fishing areas and someone making money from our fish bought with our fishing license money. May be  we should have a mob fishin on these areas to wake up the Fish Commission.
#57
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 11:04:48 (permalink)
I have never fished for stillheads in erie, and I have no real desire to fish for them.  But i do read this forum frequently and hear the tubes being mentioned frequently.  Is it like one of the top 2 or 3 stillheading spots in erie?
#58
bingsbaits
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 11:28:26 (permalink)
Was a good spot to fish...

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


#59
cbeagler
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Re: Elk Creek "Tubes" posted??????? 2013/10/10 12:07:10 (permalink)
.
post edited by cbeagler - 2013/10/10 13:34:05
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