Emerald shiners vs Fatheads

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centerpin_drift
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2008/01/11 04:38:23 (permalink)

Emerald shiners vs Fatheads

Thought this be a great thread since so many of use  the Emerald shiners and Fatheads on the Tribs. I use Both from time to time and i think the Emerald has just Little more advantage flash wise,,,,,but die rather fast. I usually take whatever i have left home with me dead then soon as a get home i use coarse table salt, salt them down really heavy let them sit in a gallon bag  I  then take them out put new salt on them then take them and seal them in a vacuum sealer,,,,store in the freezer till i need them....Wow boy do they work great for those stockies come trout season i use about 4 pounds a year fishing stockies....give it a try, be great to hear what ever one has to say! thanks...................Centerpin_drift                                                      Get the Drift!       
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    nut
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 07:36:29 (permalink)
    i freeze the dead minnows to use as chum while catfishing

    the early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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    #2
    cp13
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 09:28:37 (permalink)
    this is gunna sound dumb but i think the life of minnows depends on where you get them, i love poor richards but their minnows die really fast, smiths...i dont buy em there at all anymore except if im perch fishing...but BAC's minnows have lasted the longest for me (the one on presque isle)...i have two dozen i got there from saturday and only two have died..
    #3
    Xstream Fishing
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 11:10:40 (permalink)
    There are several factors which effect how long baitfish will stay alive.
    1. Their original health when you bought them
    2. Species
    3. Handling
    4. Exterior environmental conditions, ie, air temp etc.
     
     
    My 2 cents
    #4
    anzomcik
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 12:47:44 (permalink)
    i have had the same bucket of fatheads and shiners going on 4 weeks. I have not had one die (except for the ones i use). I change the water in the bucket every day, have a bubbler going all day , and feed them once a day. Keeping them cool helps. What i have found is that if you are willing to put in the time they will last very long
    #5
    Dream Catcher
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 12:57:24 (permalink)
    I use both however ; I believe the fat heads work better due to the action ( I think they swim better(more erratically) when hooked through the lips ). I do know the emeralds don't tolerate warming water as well as the fat heads do either. I have had both species in my spring for over a month , in the same minner bucket and the majority of the original 5 dozen are still live. I take em up eveytime I go to Erie but rarely use em. The hardest baitfish I believe to keep lively is Alewives ; I use lots of oxygen & ice in the summer to keep them going.
    #6
    Youghman
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 13:34:56 (permalink)
    A drop or two of hydrogen peroxide (topical solution for cuts) in the minnie bucket you carry, will keep minnows/fatheads alive and kickin'.
    Heat is the big killer.
    I live on a farm and I'm lucky to have spring where I keep my minnies, but when I transport them I always use an airator/bubbler.
    Those plastic buckets that kitty-litter comes in are great. They are large, rectangular and have a flip-top lid.
    Drill a small hole for the air hose, attach the air stone, duct tape your airator on top.
    #7
    Stillhead
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 14:12:22 (permalink)
    I'd be careful taking emeralds outside the Erie watershed .  I think the new law even stops the use of the dead shiners.

    "It is unlawful to transport or cause the transportation of VHS-susceptible species of fish out of the portion of the Lake Erie Watershed in this Commonwealth into other watersheds of this Commonwealth except when certain conditions are met. It is illegal to use VHS-susceptible fish species, fish parts and eggs taken from the Lake Erie Watershed as fishbait in Commonwealth waters outside the Lake Erie Watershed except when the fish are certified as VHS-negative. It is legal to transport dead recreationally caught fish out of the Lake Erie Watershed solely for the purpose of human consumption."

    http://www.fish.state.pa.us/fishpub/summary/lakeerie.html
    post edited by Stillhead - 2008/01/11 14:16:06
    #8
    avidangler
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 14:27:01 (permalink)
    I personally prefer the fatheads because I have found the bigger the minnow the more fish react positively towards it.  I have fished with smaller fatheads out of the same bucket and can drift for a half hour with no response from the fish but as soon as I put a large fathead on they will slam it... Maybe its just in my head but its hard to beat a fathead for just about any fish especially steelhead...IMO

    Born to fish, Forced to work...

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    #9
    centerpin_drift
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 14:27:01 (permalink)
    Stillhead i have read that before and thanks for the info again,,,,,not to be ignorant but really i don't see much difference between that and a salted minnow,,,,,Who knows i know they work really well for stocked browns and Brookies Kill them!!!!!!!!!!!                              Centerpin_drift                                                                                                                           get the drift!
    #10
    rick28607
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 15:44:36 (permalink)
     
    Still head would that law apply to using single eggs u buy in the bait store in Erie, during spring trout season down here?
    #11
    cp13
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 17:09:38 (permalink)
    those eggs are legal (i assume youre talking about the single salmon eggs) because 1. a baitshop cant sell them if theyre not legal. 2. theres not enough salmon in PA to be able to collect enough eggs to sell regularly in a baitshop...
    #12
    Stillhead
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 17:29:19 (permalink)
    I do not know, good question.  All I know is what is in the link I posted earlier. 

    What  I do know is, many of the Salmon eggs you buy in Erie bait and tackle shops are chinook eggs(some coho) from New York and Michigan( there may be some from other places as well, I don't know,  you'd have to ask the baitshops).  Technically the PA law states fish and fish eggs from the Lake Erie watershed, I believe there is a federal law that covers bringing them across state lines, but I don't know whether that covers eggs or just live fish.    

    Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but if it's a "fish or part of a fish including it's eggs" that originated from the lake Erie watershed, then you can't use it for bait outside of the Lake Erie watershed.

    If they don't want the eggs from lake erie fish being used elsewhere, I'm sure the eggs from lake O are the same.


    Maybe a WCO will read this and help clear things up.
    post edited by Stillhead - 2008/01/11 17:34:02
    #13
    Loomis
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 17:44:08 (permalink)
    man that'd be a shame, cuz i know as well as others that eggs from PR are stockie magnets.  Its like a race to the finish when u fish with these anywhere else. 
    #14
    spoonchucker
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 17:56:19 (permalink)
    Salted Emralds, and chemically/salt CURED eggs would be safe for use outside the Erie watershed although it is a bit of a gray area as to if it is legal. Salting kills the virus, freezing does NOT. Also the law applies to fish taken from ANY great lake watershed, not just Erie.

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    #15
    Presquisleanglr
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 18:21:46 (permalink)
    Spoons, I'm not one to question your knowledge, However being a bait dealer I'm up on the question of usable bait, As of 1/1/08 salted emerald shiners are no longer permitted for inland use on any water way out side the great lake watershed. In 2007 the use of live emeralds was a summery offense and carried a $100 fine. New legislation has ben tabled and passed and use of emerald shiners (salted or unsalted) on inland waters Carry's a first offense fine of $10,000. Thats right I did not put too many zeros down.NO SALTED EMERALDS USED ON INLAND WATER WAYS. anglers will just have to salt up some fatheads for inland stalked trout.
     
    I'll dig out the new reg,s the pfbc mailed last mouth and post it for you.
     
    PIA bait and tackle
    Andy
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    spoonchucker
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 18:45:14 (permalink)
    Thanks, Andy. That is a change from the initial proposal.

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    #17
    centerpin_drift
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 19:00:47 (permalink)
    Well no more Emeralds for me i would have never thought that they would be illegal,,,,what a crock you think that your fishing doing something creative enjoying what our four father's have did for years,,,the laws suck Drug dealers get more breaks than us fisherman!!!!!                                      centerpin_drift                                                                            get the drift!                          
    #18
    spoonchucker
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 19:08:41 (permalink)
    Center,
     
    Do you WANT to put your fishery at risk. The law isn't intended to make your life miserable, it is to protect YOUR inland waters. There ARE Emeralds available from certified dealers. Andy could provide more info in that regard than I.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

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    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #19
    peacymike
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 19:13:52 (permalink)
    I SALT THEM AND DRY THEM ;THEN EAT THEM ;THERE GOOD.; CAN'T BE BAD WHAT YOU GET FROM FAR EAST IN A CAN [DREAM ON]
    post edited by peacymike - 2008/01/11 19:15:05
    #20
    fishrmn
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 20:10:33 (permalink)
    Fathead minnows hands down!  Esp early season low/clear water.
     
    -Tim
     
     
    #21
    Stillhead
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/11 21:08:09 (permalink)
    Andy,
     
    what about the eggs?   I'd assume if salted(cured) minnows aren't allowed, then salted/cured eggs from great lakes fish are also off limits?
    #22
    carpitiss
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/12 10:21:18 (permalink)
    i don't mean to be rude, but do you really NEED minnows to catch steel in the Pa streams-- especially with thousands of fish? i have seen jigs/streamers outfish minnows time and time again. just a pain to carry around and unnecessary IMO....

    Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrppppppp!!!!
    #23
    PghSmallie
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/12 20:14:47 (permalink)
    I started out only fly fishing for steelhead in Erie.  Then, I ended up fishing with this guy who was just pounding steelhead when nobody else was.  It was like, every other cast the dude had a fish on.  He was fishing emerald shiners.  Super-nice guy.  He took a lot of time to show me how he was fishing them.  I started doing the same thing he did with success.  He explained to me that emerald shiners work much better than flatheads, so that's what I've been using.  I get them at the B.A.C. in Fairview. 
    #24
    PghSmallie
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/12 20:21:07 (permalink)
    I think it's like fishing anything else that you have confidence in.  I can't fish a jig to save my life, but emerald shiners seem to always, always work, especially later in the season.  Dunno dude...
     
    As far as carrying them around...I put them in Ziploc sandwich bags with a little bit of water and I keep them in the pockets of my vest.  I change the water every so often.  When I need one, I just reach into the bag.  It's easier than opening a fly box, LOL.
    #25
    KAS
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/12 22:22:15 (permalink)
    Fatheads for sure. they are much hardier, will swim on a hook all day, and I think are more appealing to game fish. Just wish they grew to be 6" long.
    #26
    smallhook
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/12 22:46:35 (permalink)
    Fatheads for me.
    #27
    steel city
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/17 13:32:20 (permalink)
    FATS WORK FOR ME IN ERIE AND DOWN HOME .
    #28
    Happy Guy
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/17 23:32:06 (permalink)
    I like golden shiners.  some flash, nice size, and very hardy.

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    #29
    psbfisher11
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    RE: Emerald shiners vs Fatheads 2008/01/17 23:57:44 (permalink)
    I honestly use the biggest, shiners that poor richards sells. I like them because they have tons of flash and a lot of life in them. The steel just love to eat them
     
    I had more luck using the bigger ones that i did using the smaller ones.
     
    I also learned when u mix the two together in a minnow container it seems that they die quicker...
     
    #30
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