Confessions of a Guide

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bigbear2010
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 14:32:58 (permalink)
any person appointed by the land owner can also press charges....like the "wardens" the DSR employs on the salmon river
or mall cops
#31
Troutboy02
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 14:55:23 (permalink)
flyfisherie

For years Ive been riled, ridiculed, and reamed on this site by people who have no personal knowledge of me, one of the reasons I longer waste my time here, nor will I further after this post. But let me set these current falsehoods and the record straight.

I wrote the article for several reasons. One, to bring further attention to the degrading business practices of privateering enterprises on our tributaries. Two, to give the state a kick in the****and seek alternative methods of opening up private property to public fishing. As soon as the article came out I immediately put in the hands of the Executive Director of the PFBC. I know the power the pen can yeild, it made a lot of positive things happen when I was once the President of the Steelhead Association.  Also, I was bluntly honest with everything I wrote, in fact it was heavily edited in order for the magazine to avoid possible litigation.

Now let me get to the naysayers.

Cold, I've never made "big money" as a fly fishing guide, most people that post here probably make a lot more than I do, in fact its hard to keep the head above water with a kid in college. However, I am very lucky and blessed to make most of my living as a guide and writing about my experiences. It didnt happen overnight, but took long years of hard work. As I said in the article, Im not seeking redemtion nor am I looking for anyone to feel sorry for me. Sorry if that is what you thought.

Genieman, nice to see your level head still posting here. Beavers stretch never dried up, it's basically been taken over by another outfitter.

Gymi, if possibly you were refering to me, I know that wasnt because I havnt been back there fishing in several years. 

Beerman, I think you've misunderstood. I was never a full time guide for Beaver, they have lots of guides, but I did sell off most weekends.

Captain Hook, the Beckman Rd. area has never been public water. That entire gorge has always been posted for the 16 years I've lived back in Erie, so your a flat out liar.

Trout Boy, please read through the above.

I do not think the PFBC will designate these posted, "private" sections of stream as nursery waters. I think there is a way to open them up though. Beaver goes in and asks what the landowner is paying in property taxes, and foots that bill. Property tax incentives which need to be passed through state legislation, can work and open up more miles of stream to public fishing. Instead of ****ing about me on fisherie, why dont you guys get a legislator on your side, get off your**** and make it happen. I have.   




 
Hmm.  The "Greg Senyo got in, and I got kicked out of my playground" part of this response was conveniently left out.
 
For the record, this is all horse****.  Anybody that can't see through it needs to read up on the history of private leases and big money land grabbing in the Erie steelhead fishery.  You won't have to dig too deep before you come across all the information you need to make a decision and decide who to trust.
 
Once you turn your back on people, it's hard to gain their trust back. 
 
 
#32
jagfly/666
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 17:07:56 (permalink)
Locked it down
#33
chrisrowboat
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 17:19:34 (permalink)

Karl, told you so.
Back to the fee lunch bunch.
I think the state just needs to offer more $$. why is there a $1.2 mill balance need to pressure the state to spend it. A few $100k should make up for the property value if not the land taxes don't reflect the proper property value. Time to give the school boards a true assessment on to the property's value.


Proud to have been a FOT/
I've been out fishing.
Clean your gear/
http://www.fish.state.pa.us/cleanyourgear.htm



#34
Loopy
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 18:42:18 (permalink)
gymi03

had this happen this year:

Guide: Hey!!! who are you and howd you get in here?? 
Me: I walked
Guide: Well I'm a guide here and this is private property!
Me: yeah, I know its private.
Guide: who told you, you could fish here??
Me: guys name is f@@K oFF
Guide: I'm telling the land owner.
Me: good, tell him I said hello, told him my name.
Guide:...slowly walks off.

Now I dont dislike guides, heck if I could, i'd probably do it too. But some take on the roll of stream police...thats BS imho.


Wow!  Are you sure you're not me?

<---  The Holy Trinity
#35
Dream_Catcher
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/05 01:45:09 (permalink)
You can't blame people for not wanting strangers on thier property . I've observed many slobs littering , cursing , taking a crap in someones yard , being loud well before daylight , drunk and disorderly , you name it . How can you blame landowners for greed when it is thier land and an invasive species swims through it that they have no contorl over ?
 
I want the same as everyone else ( greater opportunities for everyone )  but the more litter I pick up and constantly reminding slobs ( grown men and women ) to pick up after themselves . Risking confrontation of a fight ensuing over the comments made to the perputraters makes me wonder . As Chris stated it boils down to compensating the landowners so they have incentive to let people fish IMO - right now it is a lose / lose situation for landowners unless they sold beverages & hotdogs to passerbyes
#36
fishink
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/05 06:50:49 (permalink)
Dream_Catcher

You can't blame people for not wanting strangers on thier property . I've observed many slobs littering , cursing , taking a crap in someones yard , being loud well before daylight , drunk and disorderly , you name it . How can you blame landowners for greed when it is thier land and an invasive species swims through it that they have no contorl over ?

I want the same as everyone else ( greater opportunities for everyone )  but the more litter I pick up and constantly reminding slobs ( grown men and women ) to pick up after themselves . Risking confrontation of a fight ensuing over the comments made to the perputraters makes me wonder . As Chris stated it boils down to compensating the landowners so they have incentive to let people fish IMO - right now it is a lose / lose situation for landowners unless they sold beverages & hotdogs to passerbyes

 
Which is why the momentum toward public access has and will never come from landowners (instead, we get stuff like this from them). It will come from the public or it won't come at all.
 
Access, leases, Senyo, Beaver, Weixlmann and more: http://www.anglersnoteboo...f-people-and-property/
#37
Cold
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/05 08:08:31 (permalink)
Simply saying that you are not the land owner so therefore you can't do anything is completely false under many circumstances.

 
Ah, well that's a far cry from 'enforcement', but accurate enough.  Be that as it may, even the land owner really "can't do anything", or at least not much, so long as trespass is the extent of the criminal activity taking place.    
 
As I understand trespass laws, the only thing this really gives in terms of power to such an individual is that they can ask the "intruder", on the landowner's behalf, to leave.  Anyone can call police, anyone can ask for ID (though the individual asked is under absolutely no obligation to comply with such a request), and really, honestly, anyone can ask the person to leave...its just the owner and these individuals which can issue a legally binding request to leave.  (This is, of course, assuming that the land is not fenced in, or has not, in some other way, been modified/augmented/arranged in such a way as to prevent access.)
 
The only thing that this landowner-chosen individual can do that others cannot is that, when they ask the individual to leave, IF they refuse, and IF the police are summoned, and IF charges are pressed...one of the conditions of criminal trespass is that the accused has to have been asked to leave by the owner or an owner-designated individual, and  refused to comply.  These guides could act in that, highly limited capacity, as well as functioning as a witness in the event that the accused refuses to leave.
 
TL;DR: The only thing the landowner can do, that he can give permission for another to do, is make a request for the person to leave, at which point, the requirements for a case of criminal trespass may be met.
#38
gymi03
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/05 09:39:55 (permalink)
I dunno...my 1st response is a guide is a guide, nothing more. Yeah the land owner can ASK him to help police the stream, he can ASK, and thats it. If,and it wont happen, I hire a guide.....the last thing I want him doing is harassing other fisherman, I want his full intention period. He's MY guide. 
#39
Esox_Hunter
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/05 10:10:26 (permalink)
It's not really about the guide, its more about property rights, IMO.  You were trespassing and you were called out by someone who was fully justified when he told you to leave.  You were lucky you weren't charged with defiant trespassing.   
#40
Cold
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/05 10:30:12 (permalink)
Yeah the land owner can ASK him to help police the stream, he can ASK, and thats it.

It's not really about the guide, its more about property rights, IMO.  You were trespassing and you were called out by someone who was fully justified when he told you to leave.  You were lucky you weren't charged with defiant trespassing.    

 
You're both correct.
 
As a property owner, or the proxy thereof, your legal power and authority begins and ends with identifying a trespasser and informing them that it is private property, and asking them to leave.  That's it.  Any attempts made to threaten, intimidate, detain, etc. are very much illegal, and will result in far greater penalties (if convicted) than trespass.
 
That being said, if authorized by the landowner, a guide is able to issue a legally binding request for an unauthorized individual to leave. Anyone can call the police at any time, though it's worth noting that, if the individual is smart, as long as they leave before the police arrive, it's going to be difficult for charges to be pressed.
#41
CU@theriver
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/05 10:43:14 (permalink)
Hit em with your purse.
#42
Jokerball101
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/05 14:38:52 (permalink)
Dream_Catcher

You can't blame people for not wanting strangers on thier property . I've observed many slobs littering , cursing , taking a crap in someones yard , being loud well before daylight , drunk and disorderly , you name it .

 
HAHA LMAO Conefession of a guide
#43
fisherofmen376
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/05 16:07:59 (permalink)
Im a little late to the party, and have only begun to realize the implications of these issues recently.  So.....
I get it that owners dont want slobs on their land.  I wouldn't either.  
I get it that private clubs offer (more) money to landowners with the enticement that their clientele will be of a more desirable appearance, behavior, odor  and income bracket.  
I get it that land is being gobbled up by the highest bidder which oftentimes is NOT the state.  
I even get it that skilled fisherman can be tempted to "sell out" and get paid to do what they love on waters that in essence become exclusively theirs.  
What I don't get it, why isn't the PFBC communicating this plight to lawmakers?  And if so, does anyone have info on how the govt. responded?
The article stated that "landowners prefer shorter term renewable leases" by from the state rather than "lifetime easements."  How much money are we talking about here?  I know it's relative to quality of the water, size, etc.  How much are these clubs paying for access?  And how much is the state willing to pay?  
 

"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
Matthew 4:19
#44
Cold
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/05 17:37:20 (permalink)
What I don't get it, why isn't the PFBC communicating this plight to lawmakers?  And if so, does anyone have info on how the govt. responded?

 
I'd suspect the simple reason is that it doesn't matter to the lawmakers.  So the fishermen can't fish section X of stream Y.  So what?  They're still paying for a license, two stamps, gas, lodging, food, beer, bait, tackle, etc.  So they're still funnelling tax money and revenue to the area...so the PFBC is getting what it wants, the state is getting what it wants, the landowners are getting what they want, and the private club members are getting what they want.  The only ones losing out in the exchange are the average joes, pumping the money in, but losing access to the fish they pay for when those fish swim through certain areas.  
 
The only real reason the PFBC cares is because, in the long run, the more that gets closed down, the fewer anglers will be interested in the steelhead experience, the fewer dollars will go to the PFBC, the fewer fish will be stocked, and the vicious cycle will continue.  Until that downward trend becomes a feedback loop, though, it doesn't really matter to them either.  I do have to give them that they're being proactive about it, though you would too if it was affecting one of your biggest selling points.
 
While I'm not sure how it'd hold up legally...and I'm sure it'd be a real pain to enforce...the most elegant solution would be a non-for-profit approach to private landowners, whereby there were only 3 possible statuses for access to the stream on their land: open (park in designated area, stick to a path, but otherwise, just like any other area), limited (fishing allowed with landowner permission, no fee allowed), or closed (no passage or fishing allowed).
 
The key would be that for limited access, while the landowner could permit or deny access as they see fit, it could not be based on any exchange of cash or benefits aside from some sort of easement compensation from the PFBC.  If they wanted to do this, the state could issue them an unlimited number of passes, where they could record the name, pass number, & license number of anyone that had permission, as well as providing them with a stub that could be presented on-stream (keep it in your license holder).
 
If the water was closed, fishing in that area would be completely prohibited.  While the landowner, and anyone who had permission could wade through the area, the act of fishing would be subject to penalty like like fishing out of season or in a protected area.
#45
Eriefisherman69
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/14 22:13:11 (permalink)
I like the Nursery water idea.....
 
ANS
 
 
I wonder if the this Beaver guy  would keep Disabled Veterans off of his property like some other guides have done?

Get educated, Get smart, And help. 

Move up or Move Over


Don't wait do something now



#46
D-nymph
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/15 10:04:22 (permalink)
Eriefisherman69


I wonder if the this Beaver guy  would keep Disabled Veterans off of his property like some other guides have done?


Yes, he would.
#47
dano
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/15 16:04:26 (permalink)
And does and did.
#48
genieman77
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/15 19:51:51 (permalink)
help a brotha out sum'mo
 
Senyo is in, and Karl is out??
 
I'm thinking I've met Senyo .
is he from Ohio?
Did he used to (or still does) sell flies?
Did ever guide the west Ohio tribs?
(Vermilion, Black, Rocky rivers)
Was he ever associated   with Don Mathews? ( Who, BTW,  I've never personally  had any problems with)
 
 
"if" that's the same guy, I've met him
 shared a boat with him and Don Mathews on one of the "Fishere board'ers" Niagara R'r  round-ups 
 
and speaking of Don...what's Don doing these days?
 
 
 
..L.T.A.
 
 
 
 
#49
troutguy
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/15 20:07:33 (permalink)
genieman77, to answer your questions..
 
"is he from Ohio?"  Yep
"Did he used to (or still does) sell flies?"  Yep
"Did ever guide the west Ohio tribs?"  Yep, and still does(or at least his company/outfitter, don't know about him personally but I'm sure he does)
"Was he ever associated with Don Mathews?"  I don't think so, maybe little stuff like the occasional clinic/class, tying stuff, etc. but nothing big.
 
Just off the top of my head, not sure if it's 100% accurate
#50
genieman77
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/15 21:05:59 (permalink)
troutguy

genieman77, to answer your questions..


"Was he ever associated with Don Mathews?"  I don't think so, maybe little stuff like the occasional clinic/class, tying stuff, etc. but nothing big.


 
Thanks TG!
 
maybe I have the association with Don mixed up then.
I thought he was guiding  some of Don's clients (this is 8-10 years ago)
 
"pretty sure" it was Greg in the boat though
 
 
..L.T.A.
#51
davef
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/15 22:30:19 (permalink)
Genie:  I also thought he was a guide with Don's business years ago.  I believe his fly tying business is or was under the name jagfly.  If you attended one of the spring fishing shows in Hermitage that Beerman had talked about on this site many years ago he was there showing how to tie some of his flies. I remember he was showing how to tie one of his wiggle nymphs.
 
He seemed like a nice guy and in my opinion more power to him in his business.  I don't like the idea of parts of streams being leased by guides etc. but since it is all legal currently who am I to knock someone trying to make a living.  Same with Karl who I ice fished with a couple of times.   I did disagree with his release all steelhead mantra but I think he really does care about the Erie fishery and he was always very helpful to me when I had a question before he quit posting on here.
#52
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/16 12:20:12 (permalink)
$$$$$$$$ ......talks! That's it boys. When it disappears from Erie so will the fish and the fishing.........and it is slowly going that way ! 
#53
fisherofmen376
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/16 17:01:14 (permalink)
dave f will you have a problem with them making a living that way when there is hardly any fishing access left?  When my kids are playing they get along great when they all have toys.  When someone's toys get swiped, meltdown!
I don't begrudge anyone working to provide for their family.  But some of these guys are aggressively wooing landowners to post property and lease to the highest bidder (fishing for publicly funded fish!!!!)  That crosses the line for me.  

"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
Matthew 4:19
#54
dano
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/16 19:07:54 (permalink)
Genieman,
The answer to all your questions is "yes".
Him and Don broke up.
Don is now a skinny guy.
That's all I know.
#55
fishrmn
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/18 19:03:21 (permalink)
dano

Genieman,
The answer to all your questions is "yes".
Him and Don broke up.
Don is now a skinny guy.
That's all I know.

Literaly just laughed out loud.
#56
Panfisher
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2018/06/14 23:59:56 (permalink)
...
post edited by Panfisher - 2018/06/17 20:26:49

The only thing better than 1 day of fishing is 2 days of fishing.
#57
psu_fish
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Re:Confessions of a Guide 2018/06/15 14:41:09 (permalink)
Holy old thread, Batman!
#58
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