Hot!Confessions of a Guide

Page: 12 > Showing page 1 of 2
Author
beerman
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1331
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/01/14 22:13:47
  • Location: Margaritaville
  • Status: offline
2013/02/28 21:40:16 (permalink)

Confessions of a Guide

Just read an article in the April/May 2013 of Fly Fisherman magazine written by Karl Weixlmann. 
 I first knew him as "flyfisherie" from the old FishErie board.  The article is titled "Confessions of a Guide....
Pennsylvania's steelhead conundrum"  IMO it's well written.   Karl speaks from the heart and explains how he
 really feels about what has been going on in the past ten or so years with our fishery. 
Anybody else read this story?
post edited by beerman - 2013/02/28 21:50:47

changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes....nothing remains quite the same



The Beerman ~ Greg
#1

57 Replies Related Threads

    Cold
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 7688
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/02/28 22:29:27 (permalink)
    Actually, I had a bit of time to kill earlier this week and decided to browse in the bookstore.  I picked up the magazine and read that exact article.
     
    Honestly, while on one hand, and in the greater general sense, I'm glad that the average joe's standpoint is getting exposure, especially form someone who's been on both sides of it...the tone of the article seemed very "poor me", and I have a really hard time feeling the least bit sorry for the guy.  
     
    I think it's kind of sad/amusing that, when he was making the big money off of it, the privatization was (obviously) the best thing since sliced bread...and now that he's on the same plane as the rest of us mere mortals and not personally benefitting from it, now it's (just as obviously) the undoing of the fishery. 
    #2
    genieman77
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 2275
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/01 06:18:31 (permalink)
    Cold


    I think it's kind of sad/amusing that, when he was making the big money off of it, the privatization was (obviously) the best thing since sliced bread...and now that he's on the same plane as the rest of us 

     
    been out of touch with the  workings for some time now...so get up me to speed, Co
     
    Karl is no longer baby sitting hi-rollers on Beav's stretch?
    Beav's stretch dry up?
     
    what happened??
     
    Thanks
     
     
    ..L.T.A.
    #3
    wishfishin
    Expert Angler
    • Total Posts : 534
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2006/10/08 21:16:24
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/01 11:44:26 (permalink)
    TheR  ar kNo phIsh in Eree nymoor.   I thoT evereEwun noo tHat.
     
    #4
    gymi03
    Expert Angler
    • Total Posts : 400
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/06/18 06:17:40
    • Location: Lake City, PA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/01 12:47:35 (permalink)
    had this happen this year:
     
    Guide: Hey!!! who are you and howd you get in here?? 
    Me: I walked
    Guide: Well I'm a guide here and this is private property!
    Me: yeah, I know its private.
    Guide: who told you, you could fish here??
    Me: guys name is f@@K oFF
    Guide: I'm telling the land owner.
    Me: good, tell him I said hello, told him my name.
    Guide:...slowly walks off.
     
    Now I dont dislike guides, heck if I could, i'd probably do it too. But some take on the roll of stream police...thats BS imho.
    #5
    slabdaddy
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 1976
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2011/12/27 11:30:05
    • Location: New Bethlehem, PA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/01 13:36:56 (permalink)
    gymie, why did he back off? Are you a VIP or something? Not being disrespectful by any means. I'm just curious.

    “If you're in trouble, or hurt or in need - go to the poor people. They're the only ones that'll help - the only ones.”
    John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath
    #6
    Cold
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 7688
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/01 15:26:24 (permalink)
    slabdaddy

    gymie, why did he back off? Are you a VIP or something? Not being disrespectful by any means. I'm just curious.

    Maybe he realized that he had permission to fish and guide there, not harass others...or that it was none of his f#$%ing business who gymi was.
     
    "Guide" is not synonymous with "guard".  Just think about how ridiculous the situation would seem if gymi had walked up to the guide and his client on the stream and interrogated them as to who they were and why they were there.  Just because a guide makes money from fishing doesn't mean they have authority over those who don't.
    #7
    beerman
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 1331
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2002/01/14 22:13:47
    • Location: Margaritaville
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/01 21:36:05 (permalink)
    genieman77 wrote:
    "Karl is no longer baby sitting hi-rollers on Beav's stretch?"
    "Beav's stretch dry up? "

    "what happened??"
     
    Karl's article is 2+ pages long, but  I'll try to convey his message in a concise manner. 
    IMO Karl has come full circle over the past decade plus. 
     
    First he worked full time at a lumber yard and guided part-time on public land.  Then he took a full-time guiding job for Beaver on leased/private property.  He states that he did it for the money and after a while he realized that the big money clubs were leasing and buying more and more of the prime fishing spots he once fished with everybody else.
     
      "Money had bought me.  Now money had shoved me out.  That's when I quit and went back to work at the lumber mill in the summers." 
     
    This is just a brief summary of his essay.  It takes alot to admit one's mistakes and change their behavior.  I don't hold a grudge against Karl.  I forgive.

    changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes....nothing remains quite the same



    The Beerman ~ Greg
    #8
    pafisher
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 2826
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2002/08/15 11:14:30
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/01 23:25:08 (permalink)
    I also read that article today and it was honest and sincere,we all make mistakes and no one is perfect.
    The straw that broke the camels back it seems is when even he could no longer fish the paid for stretches,while guiding or on his free time.That made him realize what the rest of us feel when we can't fish for the fish that we paid to stock.
    The article is well worth the time to read.
    #9
    Cold
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 7688
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/02 00:45:33 (permalink)
    The straw that broke the camels back it seems is when even he could no longer fish the paid for stretches,while guiding or on his free time.

     
    Exactly.
     
    Which tells me that there's been no change in heart; he's just POed that he lost a perk.  I bet if they gave him back that privilege, all the sudden, private clubs would be the only force preserving the quality of Erie steelhead fishing, in his eyes.
    #10
    genieman77
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 2275
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/02 06:56:43 (permalink)
    beerman
    .  I don't hold a grudge against Karl.  I forgive.

     
     
    Thanks Greg
    I'm a forgiving fellow too.
    actually, I've never begrudged Karl for going to the dArk side.
    a man has to do what a man has to do to feed his family
    and the truth is, i can't help but like the little  fook...
     
    But i think maybe, Brother Cold is spot on
     
     
    ..L.T.A.
    #11
    gymi03
    Expert Angler
    • Total Posts : 400
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/06/18 06:17:40
    • Location: Lake City, PA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/02 08:11:22 (permalink)
    Cold

    slabdaddy

    gymie, why did he back off? Are you a VIP or something? Not being disrespectful by any means. I'm just curious.

    Maybe he realized that he had permission to fish and guide there, not harass others...or that it was none of his f#$%ing business who gymi was.

    "Guide" is not synonymous with "guard".  Just think about how ridiculous the situation would seem if gymi had walked up to the guide and his client on the stream and interrogated them as to who they were and why they were there.  Just because a guide makes money from fishing doesn't mean they have authority over those who don't.

     
    Thats pretty much spot on Cold. I'm no VIP  or nothing, but I see how the way I worded it could be made out as such...lol....sorry man.
    #12
    mook14
    Expert Angler
    • Total Posts : 312
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2006/12/24 19:02:16
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/02 11:58:58 (permalink)
    My impression was that he was used then shutout when nolonger needed.Kind of hard to blam a guy for trying to make a living.People throwing money at you can blurr your vision.
    #13
    KJH807
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 5047
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2006/11/26 19:16:17
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/02 19:01:29 (permalink)
    Paging Greg Senyo.......



    #14
    CAPTAIN HOOK
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 1870
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2002/09/28 22:31:08
    • Location: N.W. Pa.
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/03 12:35:41 (permalink)
    Once you cross the line your out ! All those guys sold us out years ago for personal gain nothing less. Sorry no pity here. They took  the best public fishing area away on Elk Creek (Beckman Area ) posted it up and hogged it for themselves ! Too bad the Steelhead Runs slowed up and ruined their private party ! Cry me a river !!!!
    #15
    Lucky13
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 1629
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2002/10/26 04:40:48
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/03 13:41:42 (permalink)
    I also got the impression that Cold et al expressed.  He reminds me of some of the people who have no problem with Douglaston on the Salmon in NY, and pay the 45 a day during salmon season, but are worried that land upstream is getting posted.
     
    L13
    #16
    slabdaddy
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 1976
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2011/12/27 11:30:05
    • Location: New Bethlehem, PA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 10:24:39 (permalink)
    gymi03

    Cold

    slabdaddy

    gymie, why did he back off? Are you a VIP or something? Not being disrespectful by any means. I'm just curious.

    Maybe he realized that he had permission to fish and guide there, not harass others...or that it was none of his f#$%ing business who gymi was.

    "Guide" is not synonymous with "guard".  Just think about how ridiculous the situation would seem if gymi had walked up to the guide and his client on the stream and interrogated them as to who they were and why they were there.  Just because a guide makes money from fishing doesn't mean they have authority over those who don't.


    Thats pretty much spot on Cold. I'm no VIP  or nothing, but I see how the way I worded it could be made out as such...lol....sorry man.

    I get it. It's just that it sounded like your name is what scared him off. It sounded like he recognized your name and tucked his tail. LOL
     
    Cold, absolutely. They are guides, not land owners or, as you put it, guards. People get awfully worked up over some stupid fish. It's not like there aren't millions of them up there.

    “If you're in trouble, or hurt or in need - go to the poor people. They're the only ones that'll help - the only ones.”
    John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath
    #17
    Troutboy02
    New Angler
    • Total Posts : 45
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2001/11/26 00:27:25
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 10:56:11 (permalink)
    This makes my day.
     
    So Karl has now seen the light?  All this does is expose what he really is even further.
     
    Meow meow.  He sold out out lots of people to make his little deal work, and ended up getting the same treatment in the end.
     
    We are supposed to feel bad for him and accept some sort of apology?  He made his own bed and can go back to the friggin lumber yard.  I don't blame anybody for trying to earn a buck, but I do blame them for throwing their morals and ethics to the side to do so. 
     
    #18
    flyfisherie
    New Angler
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2001/07/19 08:45:47
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 12:02:14 (permalink)
    For years Ive been riled, ridiculed, and reamed on this site by people who have no personal knowledge of me, one of the reasons I longer waste my time here, nor will I further after this post. But let me set these current falsehoods and the record straight.
     
    I wrote the article for several reasons. One, to bring further attention to the degrading business practices of privateering enterprises on our tributaries. Two, to give the state a kick in the****and seek alternative methods of opening up private property to public fishing. As soon as the article came out I immediately put in the hands of the Executive Director of the PFBC. I know the power the pen can yeild, it made a lot of positive things happen when I was once the President of the Steelhead Association.  Also, I was bluntly honest with everything I wrote, in fact it was heavily edited in order for the magazine to avoid possible litigation.
     
    Now let me get to the naysayers.
     
    Cold, I've never made "big money" as a fly fishing guide, most people that post here probably make a lot more than I do, in fact its hard to keep the head above water with a kid in college. However, I am very lucky and blessed to make most of my living as a guide and writing about my experiences. It didnt happen overnight, but took long years of hard work. As I said in the article, Im not seeking redemtion nor am I looking for anyone to feel sorry for me. Sorry if that is what you thought.
     
    Genieman, nice to see your level head still posting here. Beavers stretch never dried up, it's basically been taken over by another outfitter.
     
    Gymi, if possibly you were refering to me, I know that wasnt because I havnt been back there fishing in several years. 
     
    Beerman, I think you've misunderstood. I was never a full time guide for Beaver, they have lots of guides, but I did sell off most weekends.
     
    Captain Hook, the Beckman Rd. area has never been public water. That entire gorge has always been posted for the 16 years I've lived back in Erie, so your a flat out liar.
     
    Trout Boy, please read through the above.
     
    I do not think the PFBC will designate these posted, "private" sections of stream as nursery waters. I think there is a way to open them up though. Beaver goes in and asks what the landowner is paying in property taxes, and foots that bill. Property tax incentives which need to be passed through state legislation, can work and open up more miles of stream to public fishing. Instead of ****ing about me on fisherie, why dont you guys get a legislator on your side, get off your**** and make it happen. I have.   
     
     
     
     
     
    #19
    Esox_Hunter
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 2451
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2006/08/02 14:32:57
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 12:08:29 (permalink)
    slabdaddy
    Cold, absolutely. They are guides, not land owners or, as you put it, guards. People get awfully worked up over some stupid fish. It's not like there aren't millions of them up there.


    Not exactly.  It really depends on the particulars of the arrangement between the guide and land owner. 
     
    The land owner may authorize an individual to enforce virtually any property right on his behalf, including trespassing.  This is very common in hunting and I would suspect that it is highly plausible in this case that the guides have been granted the authority to control access to the property. 
    #20
    slabdaddy
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 1976
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2011/12/27 11:30:05
    • Location: New Bethlehem, PA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 12:20:36 (permalink)
    I can see that. Point taken.

    “If you're in trouble, or hurt or in need - go to the poor people. They're the only ones that'll help - the only ones.”
    John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath
    #21
    flyfisherie
    New Angler
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2001/07/19 08:45:47
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 12:27:02 (permalink)
    A lot of property owners Ive talked to do not want to sell a perpetual easement because it reduces the properties value, property tax incentives that allow public access do not.  Anyone that used to park off Beckman and hike in was trespassing. It was never enforced because the landowner worked for the state department and was overseas for years at a time. WCO Bowser even put a note on my car about it 16 years ago, though I had gained permission to fish. 
    #22
    Cold
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 7688
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 12:33:12 (permalink)
    I've said it before and I'll say it again:
     
    The PFBC can easily circumvent this supposed difficulty with property tax incentives: get a copy of your property tax records and the PFBC can reimburse you, in part, for a portion of your tax based on how much of it translates to stream frontage.  Better yet, supply these records before any easement is granted and work out exactly how much will be reimbursed ahead of time.  
     
    It doesn't have to be perpetual (and honestly, why would they be so hellbent on that in the first place?  It's obviously not because they're concerned about suddenly losing that access, otherwise, they wouldn't buy easements in currently inaccessible locations).
     
    Boom, headshot.
    #23
    Cold
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 7688
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 12:49:01 (permalink)
    Cold, I've never made "big money" as a fly fishing guide, most people that post here probably make a lot more than I do, in fact its hard to keep the head above water with a kid in college. However, I am very lucky and blessed to make most of my living as a guide and writing about my experiences. It didnt happen overnight, but took long years of hard work. As I said in the article, Im not seeking redemtion nor am I looking for anyone to feel sorry for me. Sorry if that is what you thought.

     
    You made bigger money selling out ethics for fishing perks than anyone else here, that I know of.
    #24
    CAPTAIN HOOK
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 1870
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2002/09/28 22:31:08
    • Location: N.W. Pa.
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 13:02:53 (permalink)
    Flyfisherie let me clarify your so called wisdom of Beckman that you and your kind think you know ! I along with many other fishermen had permission from Steve the farmer who took care of the land along the Beckman area. He allowed us to fish along with any one who took time to ask to fish there. I fished that area for "over 25 years "and never had a problem until the great Donnie Beaver and co. showed up. We were even giving permission to drive down to the woods along I-90 at the end of the field by Steve. All that he asked was to not block the entry areas along the road so they could get their farm equiptment in and out. That area consisted from I-90 up to Little Elk and was open to "all "who would ask! There was also a small farm on the Little Elk side that was open water to any one who would ask. Since that prime area got posted and privitized I rarely go Erie to Steelhead fish. It's a shame that fishermen shut out other fishermen for the love of money and power! That's one reason I'm glad people fishing below that area keep their limit of fish that's less fish for the Pre Madonna's above to catch!
    #25
    D-nymph
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 6862
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2001/09/19 08:37:37
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 13:31:00 (permalink)
    flyfisherie

    For years Ive been riled, ridiculed, and reamed on this site by people who have no personal knowledge of me, one of the reasons I longer waste my time here, nor will I further after this post. But let me set these current falsehoods and the record straight.

    I wrote the article for several reasons. One, to bring further attention to the degrading business practices of privateering enterprises on our tributaries. Two, to give the state a kick in the****and seek alternative methods of opening up private property to public fishing. As soon as the article came out I immediately put in the hands of the Executive Director of the PFBC. I know the power the pen can yeild, it made a lot of positive things happen when I was once the President of the Steelhead Association.  Also, I was bluntly honest with everything I wrote, in fact it was heavily edited in order for the magazine to avoid possible litigation.

    Now let me get to the naysayers.

    Cold, I've never made "big money" as a fly fishing guide, most people that post here probably make a lot more than I do, in fact its hard to keep the head above water with a kid in college. However, I am very lucky and blessed to make most of my living as a guide and writing about my experiences. It didnt happen overnight, but took long years of hard work. As I said in the article, Im not seeking redemtion nor am I looking for anyone to feel sorry for me. Sorry if that is what you thought.

    Genieman, nice to see your level head still posting here. Beavers stretch never dried up, it's basically been taken over by another outfitter.

    Gymi, if possibly you were refering to me, I know that wasnt because I havnt been back there fishing in several years. 

    Beerman, I think you've misunderstood. I was never a full time guide for Beaver, they have lots of guides, but I did sell off most weekends.

    Captain Hook, the Beckman Rd. area has never been public water. That entire gorge has always been posted for the 16 years I've lived back in Erie, so your a flat out liar.

    Trout Boy, please read through the above.

    I do not think the PFBC will designate these posted, "private" sections of stream as nursery waters. I think there is a way to open them up though. Beaver goes in and asks what the landowner is paying in property taxes, and foots that bill. Property tax incentives which need to be passed through state legislation, can work and open up more miles of stream to public fishing. Instead of ****ing about me on fisherie, why dont you guys get a legislator on your side, get off your**** and make it happen. I have.   





    Saved for when Karl inevitably deletes it.
     
    You are amazing, Karl.  More amazing than most of us mere mortals.  What an Erie fishing saint!

    #26
    Cold
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 7688
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 13:53:38 (permalink)
    The land owner may authorize an individual to enforce virtually any property right on his behalf, including trespassing.  This is very common in hunting and I would suspect that it is highly plausible in this case that the guides have been granted the authority to control access to the property.  

     
    "Enforce"?
     
    What legal grounds does this provide for, in terms of enforcement?  In PA, beyond calling the authorities, there's not much a landowner can do (let alone some random dude that he grants a knighthood) to "enforce tresspassing laws" on his property.
    #27
    slabdaddy
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 1976
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2011/12/27 11:30:05
    • Location: New Bethlehem, PA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 14:00:34 (permalink)
    I think he meant that they can warn others to get off of the property or the authorities will be contacted. I don't think anyone but the landowner can press charges though. They can't legally detain anyone. All that they can do is try to get ID from the tresspasser and turn it in to the cops. Then the landowner has to press charges.

    “If you're in trouble, or hurt or in need - go to the poor people. They're the only ones that'll help - the only ones.”
    John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath
    #28
    Esox_Hunter
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 2451
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2006/08/02 14:32:57
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 14:12:33 (permalink)
    Maybe "enforce" was a poor choice of words.  The person whom the landowner authorized permission to can call the cops on the owners behalf, he can tell people to get the heck off of the property, he can request to see ID, and he can show up in court to testify against the intruder.  Just about any legal recourse that the owner may pursue, can be pursued just the same by an individual authorized by the owner to do so, depending on the agreement in place.   
     
    Simply saying that you are not the land owner so therefore you can't do anything is completely false under many circumstances.  That is all I am saying.   
     
     
     
    post edited by Esox_Hunter - 2013/03/04 14:18:09
    #29
    Esox_Hunter
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 2451
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2006/08/02 14:32:57
    • Status: offline
    Re:Confessions of a Guide 2013/03/04 14:17:25 (permalink)
    slabdaddy 
    Then the landowner has to press charges.


    It depends on the conditions of the agreement.  Most hunting leases allow the lessees to pursue trespassing charges and I have seen it many times.  I would imagine that the guides have some type of written agreement with the landowner similar to the hunting leases I am familiar with. 
    #30
    Page: 12 > Showing page 1 of 2
    Jump to: