MUDDY ALLEGHENY

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LDD
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2007/04/11 07:56:06 (permalink)

MUDDY ALLEGHENY

Sorry, there's no excuse for this. When you look at the latter pictures, the ones that show streams that look like roads, just remember those are all native brookie streams in the ANF where we are supposed to be preserving the watershed.  The pictures speak for themselves.
 
http://www.angelfire.com/blog/environmentalissues/waterpollution.html
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    Stillhead
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 08:57:53 (permalink)
    That dude , steve Lauser from the corps of engineers is an****  I can't believe he tried to pass that off as sediment from the bottom of the lake being stirred up.  What a load of crap, I never thought I'd see Kinzua reservoir resemble Canonsburg lake. 
     
     
    #2
    Rtom45
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 11:42:03 (permalink)
    Can we create an online form letter to be sent to local politicians?
    #3
    Bughawk
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 11:59:55 (permalink)
    That sure does look like a mess.  Has anyone else complained about this problem? 

    pax vobiscum +
    #4
    LDD
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 14:34:51 (permalink)
    Currently nothing is being done.   Looking for ideas, I've already emailed the site to two of my buddies in the DEP. Its a fine line in these parts.  I'm a fisherman and a hunter and a realist but I know as soon as I say something locally people will howl that I'm a tree hugger.  Any ideas about a good tactical approach would be helpful. 
    #5
    Bughawk
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 15:14:06 (permalink)
    Tree hugging is one thing, but good sound environmental policies are another.  I would bet that a lot of people in the area fish these waters and would not consider themselves tree huggers.  If you can energize the average fisherman, then you will have a voice that the politicans will listen to.  It is easy to poo poo the "hippie liberal nut job", but when it is the locals who don't fit that description who are calling for change, you will be on your way.
     
    I do have one question.  The logging and drilling activity is the root of the problem, correct?  If that is the case, is there anyway to have the Commonwealth go after them?  I am no expert, but I thought in your application to harvest trees or drill for oil/gas, you needed to have an environmental impact statement and have procedures you would follow to prevent any serious environmental impact.  If that is the case, I think their plans failed and they should be held accountable for that.  A heavy fine or even some jail time might get these guys to be more careful.
     
     

    pax vobiscum +
    #6
    LDD
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 15:24:34 (permalink)
    There is most definitely environmental laws governing this type of behavior and impact statements that probably were done, but the problem is that they're either not being enforced or the fines are too small to matter for a company that is making money hand over fist.  I suppose I should start with public agencies like the DEP and local politicians.  I just find it hard to believe that they would push in those roads and clear those landings and do nothing as far a reclamation or drainage. 
    #7
    Bughawk
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 15:37:24 (permalink)
    Something sounds fishy to me.  I would bet whomever was supposed to take care of the environmental impact was asleep at the wheel.
     
    One solution would be to call Donny Beaver and see if you can get him to step in.  Afterall he is a giant among conservationist....

    pax vobiscum +
    #8
    spoonchucker
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 15:47:05 (permalink)
    LDD,
     
    I am not sure that they are in violation of their permits YET. At least one of the pics looked like it might be the beginnings of a retention pond. At any rate "some" amount of roads must be cut in order to construct such ponds, and barriers. The current runoff MAY be just a temporary situation, which may not have any long term impact. Many river systems get extremely muddy, yet still thrive. That is not to discourage from raising the issue with the proper authorities, on the contrary please continue to stay on top of it.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

    Step Up, or Step Aside


    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #9
    bingsbaits
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 17:58:10 (permalink)
    As a logger I can say if you are causing this much dirty run off the dep will contact and fine you. They do not let this slide from any logging operation I have ever seen. These are obviously new sites that have had no time for reclamation and have probably been filmed at the worst possible time. The logging company I sub contract out too is actually owned by a so-called tree hugger. As a timber exstraction engineer I am a tree hugger with out trees I have no job. Sustainable logging has a positive environmental impact if done properly. You get a healthier and more diverse woods than you would if just leaving it to mother nature. As for the well sites I can't speak for the riggers. That's the main reason I can get on here and bs a little today it is too wet to work and make mud. And for you fellas that don't much care for us loggers. Try wiping your****with plastic.

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #10
    spoonchucker
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 18:25:41 (permalink)
    Bing,
     
    I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think anyone (here) is anti logging. They just want to be sure it is done responsibley. If you have been in the business very long, you know there are companies that DON"T give a crap about conservation. They want to take it all now, and the  with tomorrow. The situation in question may, or may not be a problem. There is no harm in looking into it.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

    Step Up, or Step Aside


    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #11
    dano
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 19:29:51 (permalink)
    Amazing, What a crime.
    The sediment isn't coming from NY.
    I was in Salamanca yesterday and the river is clear and so is the upper reservoir.
    Back last month when the river was over its banks, yes it looked ugly. I'm sure tons of silt washed down.  But, I remember other Spring flooding events causing the upper reservoir to muddy but it didn't effect the lower reservoir to the extent of its current state. At least thats my recollection during the past 17 years of living around these parts.  
     
     The photos don't lie. It shows where the silt is coming from. I do know that the PFBC can fine the operators. I've seen it done be for when loads of mud entered a wild trout stream . I remember one WCO fining a highway contractor numerous times hwen they altered run off and mudded up the stream.
    What a shame.
    This is a National Park. And for now I don't see the Feds being in any hurry to get this fixed. Bad timing, wrong administration.
     

    Gone Fishing
    #12
    LDD
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 19:35:14 (permalink)
    You're right Bing, if you create that amount of dirty water the DEP is usually up your **** quick.  My dad is a forester and I worked with him growing up, in the woods of WV, so I'm totally with you about sustainable forestry.  These aren't logging jobs though, they're well sites.  Lots and lots of new roads leading to well sites with zero retaining walls and zero hay.  Any well site I've seen by a reputable company has good retainers and manages the water they know they'll have to deal with.  You're defintely right, those pictures were taken at the worst possible time, but in my book that doesn't excuse the action. 
    Anyways, I drove home along the resrvoir...water was crystal clear at red bridge where Kinzua and the S. Branch dumps in...as I worked my way towards the KC bridge it got muddier and muddier...STILL...the water isn't quite as clay colored as those pictures, but it's still waaay off color and the major melt was over three weeks ago. 
    #13
    bingsbaits
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 19:50:47 (permalink)
     You are right there are some problems there. Wether the mud was caused by irresponsible logging or well drilling. Someone should be held accountable for that mess...

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #14
    woodnickle
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 19:52:00 (permalink)
    And they hacked and they sawed , they raped the land, they called that progress in Whoville. Lord, it never stops.
    #15
    Stillhead
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 22:23:30 (permalink)
    I could not care less who exactly caused it, or whether or not they are fined. I'd just like to see the problem fixed, if it can be.  There is no way the water at the dam should ever be that muddy.   I don't care if it rained for 3 weeks straight, it would have settled  before it got to the dam.  
     
    That's what bugs me about the dude that said everything is normal,  he's either covering for someone's butt or incredibly stupid. 
    #16
    Bughawk
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 22:26:46 (permalink)
    Bing I don't think anyone here is not in favor of environmentally responsible logging.  The pictures seem to indicate in this case there was a problem.

    pax vobiscum +
    #17
    woodnickle
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    RE: MUDDY ALLEGHENY 2007/04/11 23:04:30 (permalink)
    The evidence  is quit clear . Our state reps. need too take action on this issue.  Maybe as bug said, Beaver squeezer.

    #18
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