dpms
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S-10
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/08 20:45:23
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Even if I was in favor of it I doubt I would be sending money to a P.O. Box without knowing who I was dealing with.
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dpms
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/08 20:54:40
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wayne c
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/08 20:58:19
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This was the brainchild of Brad Gehman. aka DUTCH. Antideer envirotype, having known him and his positions on issues for many years now....as always this is nothing more than for more ways to kill deer is his goal...period. Even if I wanted to support sunday hunting, Id send my money to his made up "organization" about as quickly as I would send money to peta.  Nothing for HIM to lose for him by collecting money from gullible folks and losing THEIR money I guess. lol.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/05/08 21:00:59
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S-10
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/08 21:07:56
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I see a Kathy Davis wrote a supporting doc for them. Is that the same Enviro that works for the DCNR as a biologist and was trying for a seat on the BOC.
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wayne c
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/08 21:23:20
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Yup. Not sure in exactly what capacity but she worked for DEP. Which would explain her extreme environmental views. She is in "cahoots" on this according to postings on hpa. Two like-minded folks to be sure. If I recall she is also a lobbyist I believe for Pa Federation. Different individuals want sunday hunting for differing reasons. Rest assured that these people and those they represent are doing this for ONE reason and one reason alone. Its ALL about the deer and getting more killed. I say this with 100% certainty. The worst thing isnt the issue itself in this case- sunday hunting or no sunday hunting... Its the agenda pushing and even moreso Its that some of these people are at all representing "us" on any hunting related issues when they have absolutely no business doing so. This has been the norm for PA Federation, and today, its basically their sole reason for existance. Furthering environmental agendas while misrepresenting themselves as a 'sportsmen' organization to legislators when they are much more an "environmentalist" organization today.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/05/08 21:28:39
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dpms
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/08 22:15:14
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When HB1760 was in comittee, Mr. Gehman stated support for an ammendment excluding deer from the regulatory transfer if it meant moving the bill forward. So, either he is flat out lying or he is not as anti deer as some make him out to be. For the record, I would have preferred that our general assembly would have had the fortitude to bring it out of comittee and at least put it up for vote. Many of the politicians do not want a vote on this issue to be used against them come election time. That goes for both yes and no votes on this hot topic. Surprising that some hunters do continue to feel that these politicians are the ones best suited to regulate hunting. If the law is unconstitutional, so be it. The result is the same as I wished to see with HB1760 passing.
post edited by dpms - 2012/05/08 22:22:13
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/08 22:19:02
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
This was the brainchild of Brad Gehman. aka DUTCH. Antideer envirotype, having known him and his positions on issues for many years now....as always this is nothing more than for more ways to kill deer is his goal...period.
Even if I wanted to support sunday hunting, Id send my money to his made up "organization" about as quickly as I would send money to peta.
Nothing for HIM to lose for him by collecting money from gullible folks and losing THEIR money I guess. lol.
Antideer envirotype? I have read many of his posts on the other site and would have never associated either of those terms with him. Can you substantiate this accusation???
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dpms
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/08 22:19:10
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
Antideer envirotype, Question for you. I see you use that term often to describe certain folks. What criteria do you use to determine who, out of the group of PGC DMP supporters, are antideer enviros?
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wayne c
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/08 23:55:55
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When HB1760 was in comittee, Mr. Gehman stated support for an ammendment excluding deer from the regulatory transfer if it meant moving the bill forward. So, either he is flat out lying or he is not as anti deer as some make him out to be. IF those are the choices, then I guess he was flat out lying, perhaps your being gullible by acting as if that means something? Or perhaps you know it doesnt, yet are being less than truthful yourself?..... I read the nonsense you speak of. Pretty comical actually. He mentioned it on a message board when pressed, by other posters who obviously are familiar with him, about his support being about nothing more than his desire to see more deer killed. On the spot, he just said anything to dismiss the claims. But make no mistaken, he gave NO OFFICIAL SUPPORT for any bill or amendment to exclude deer. -And never will. If the law is unconstitutional, so be it. I agree. And it isnt. Cant claim religious reasons for the law, when all sunday hunting is NOT illegal currently. Right then and there that argument flew straight out the window. Of course when pressed, Mr. Dutch couldnt give any "grounds" for it being unconstitutional. Just said some nonsense about he didnt want to say. lol. Comical at best.  Has even stated he felt by bringing this case up, he likely wouldnt even have to fight it, figured the state would just cave in at the challenge to avoid the hassle and money of defending against a suit many of them probably dont care all that much about one way or the other anyway. So its very likely even though he knows "constitutionality" isnt a real issue here, hes bluffing, with nothing to lose, using other peoples money. 
post edited by wayne c - 2012/05/09 00:29:04
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wayne c
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/08 23:57:30
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ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: wayne c
Antideer envirotype,
Question for you. I see you use that term often to describe certain folks. What criteria do you use to determine who, out of the group of PGC DMP supporters, are antideer enviros?
Its kinda like the difference between being simply Democrats and being hard core liberals.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/05/09 00:09:01
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wayne c
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 00:07:38
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ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter
ORIGINAL: wayne c
This was the brainchild of Brad Gehman. aka DUTCH. Antideer envirotype, having known him and his positions on issues for many years now....as always this is nothing more than for more ways to kill deer is his goal...period.
Even if I wanted to support sunday hunting, Id send my money to his made up "organization" about as quickly as I would send money to peta.
Nothing for HIM to lose for him by collecting money from gullible folks and losing THEIR money I guess. lol.
Antideer envirotype? I have read many of his posts on the other site and would have never associated either of those terms with him. Can you substantiate this accusation???ÂÂÂÂÂÂ
If you are indeed a member who has followed the gentleman for any period of time, The fact that you need to even question it, tells me I shouldnt even bother to try to 'substantiate the accustaion" for you. You either know it, or never will by now. But I'll offer he has toned it down abit because of so many posts like this pointing out his fringe type leanings. That was my well educated on the topic view of having known and followed this characters escapades for well over a decade. Issues supported, those not supported, associations, discussions had, discussions through private messages with he and others, and debates while posting, mutual acquaintences as well as having read thousands of his posts across several boards over period of well over ten years. Not even gonna try to break that all down and rationalize all of that to you. But by all means, feel free to disagree and be sure to send a hefty check if you so desire. Many are well aware of this without my need to "substantiate" from what Ive seen anyway. This isnt exactly "big news" to many.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/05/09 00:20:54
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S-10
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 04:58:12
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I never heard of Mr. Gehman but have read a lot about Kathy Davis. She was Sec of Dep. and is a member of the QDMA and has testified on their behalf on deer issues as well as other enviromental issues. Her attempt to get Palones seat on the BOC was thwarted by the states hunters because of her positions regarding the deer. She is considered by many to be Anti deer. I believe she was/is an aquatic biologist. She is quite active in the states enviromental issues. There is no doubt in my mind her support for Sunday hunting has nothing to do with helping the hunters but is geared towards advancing Eco-System Management. She is a good one to have on your side fighting development, drilling, etc issues but I put her with the Audubon camp rather than the sportsman camp when it comes to the states deer herd. If she wants to help you be very suspicious of her motives.
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kevinupp
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 07:12:45
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I find Dutch's posts confusing, contradictory, and egotistical a lot of times. At times he seems to want everything and anything for the hunters, then there are times when the simplest of issues, that will probably have zero effect on him, set him off on a 40 post rant against it. I find Kathy to be more extreme than Dutch. She has a tendency to belittle (as can be confirmed by her "bannings" over there) people when they don't agree with, or question, her. Like S-10 said though..... If I had to fight a developement or something along those lines I'd want her in my corner.
post edited by kevinupp - 2012/05/09 07:13:14
More than a million trees a year die to print environmentalist publications.
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dpms
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 07:20:51
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
IF those are the choices, then I guess he was flat out lying, perhaps your being gullible by acting as if that means something? Or perhaps you know it doesnt, yet are being less than truthful yourself?..... I never saw him lie. Nor will I accuse him of lying until I see a lie. I disagree with him at times on certain issues but that is not grounds for accusing him of lying. As for myself lying, as you accuse me of, that seems to be your typical approach to those you disagree with on contentious issues. That approach I can easily dismiss. Character assasination as its finest. The Outdoor Life incident and the Woodpile come to mind right quick. But make no mistaken, he gave NO OFFICIAL SUPPORT for any bill or amendment to exclude deer. -And never will. LOL. That was because there was no official bill or ammendment to support. He stated he would support a ammendment that excluded deer if it meant moving HB1760 forward. For the record, I would not support said ammendment as I desire the bill to be comprehensive and stand or fall as is. So its very likely even though he knows "constitutionality" isnt a real issue here, hes bluffing, with nothing to lose, using other peoples money.
I guess we will se how it plays out. It does seem that folks are ponying up though and some big players are entering the fray.
post edited by dpms - 2012/05/09 07:45:05
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fisher98
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 09:51:37
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What do I know? Kathy and Brad are a couple. I do not see any character assasination. Everything said about them is true. And no Dutch would not support excluding deer and I would say someone is surely lying here. I see dpms another hpa cronie moderator both galthatfishes and Brad had been before and also a fellow Pen Fedder supporting his friends. He is and has been very vocal about every single issue they are and I dont believe it to be a conincidence dpms. Coordinated efforts I would say. Tim smail of qdma said on a message post on huntingnet that he strongly supported bridging the gap between hunters and enviromentalists. Lots of bridge gapping going on these days.
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 09:51:50
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter
ORIGINAL: wayne c
This was the brainchild of Brad Gehman. aka DUTCH. Antideer envirotype, having known him and his positions on issues for many years now....as always this is nothing more than for more ways to kill deer is his goal...period.
Even if I wanted to support sunday hunting, Id send my money to his made up "organization" about as quickly as I would send money to peta.
Nothing for HIM to lose for him by collecting money from gullible folks and losing THEIR money I guess. lol.
Antideer envirotype? I have read many of his posts on the other site and would have never associated either of those terms with him. Can you substantiate this accusation???ÂÂÂÂÂÂ
If you are indeed a member who has followed the gentleman for any period of time, The fact that you need to even question it, tells me I shouldnt even bother to try to 'substantiate the accustaion" for you. You either know it, or never will by now. But I'll offer he has toned it down abit because of so many posts like this pointing out his fringe type leanings.
You made the claim so you provide the facts to support it, that is how this works. I asked because maybe I am missing something here as I certainly don't follow every word he posts. Talking down to me and making baseless claims doesn't do very much to support your position. Based on his posts that I have read, I see him as someone whom I don't always agree with, but someone with a genuine interest in increasing hunting opportunities for all. He is also very knowlegdeable when it comes to food plots and habitat management. I really don't see how he can be construed as antideer or envirotype, especially considering (as DPMS pointed out) that he was very vocal about excluding deer from HB1760.
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dpms
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 10:41:39
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ORIGINAL: fisher98
Tim smail of qdma said on a message post on huntingnet that he strongly supported bridging the gap between hunters and enviromentalists.
I would also oppose any collaboration between the two. My definition of environmentalist maybe different from yours though. Any org of person not friendly to hunters or our sport, I would not work with.
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eyesandgillz
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 11:41:21
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Plain and simple, wayne is FOS. Gehman anti-deer? haha...
Sounds like you have been doing a little stalking wayne.
PS - I still support Sunday hunting for ALL species. Use the doe tags to regulate the population if the harvest increases too much due to increased participation.
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fisher98
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 11:52:50
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Well dpms, you may want to explain some of that to the owner of the website that you moderate. Here is what he said just a few years back about his chapter of PF.< "Northwest Pennsylvania is home to a lot of dedicated hunters and conservationists," added John Mack the chapter's vice president. "In a time when all the cities seem to be creeping outward into rural areas, I challenge Pennsylvania's conservationists to join our chapter and work toward making a future where our kids will enjoy days in the field filled with wildlife, clean water, and fresh air."
Explains why that site is nothing but a greeny ridden joke.
Eyes and gillz arent you the zombie guy from the hockey threads? ha ha ha ha.
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dpms
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 12:02:53
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ORIGINAL: fisher98
Well dpms, you may want to explain some of that to the owner of the website that you moderate. Here is what he said just a few years back about his chapter of PF.< "Northwest Pennsylvania is home to a lot of dedicated hunters and conservationists," added John Mack the chapter's vice president. "In a time when all the cities seem to be creeping outward into rural areas, I challenge Pennsylvania's conservationists to join our chapter and work toward making a future where our kids will enjoy days in the field filled with wildlife, clean water, and fresh air."
I think you are confusing conservationist and environmentalist? I draw a clear distinction between the two.
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eyesandgillz
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 12:15:33
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And now you are calling John Mack a "greeny"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH
That has to be one of the funniest posts I have read in awhile. Thanks for the chuckle.
If you equate conservation with "extreme green environmentalism," then there is NO hope for you. Hunters are the first true conservationists.
wayne #2, no, I'm eyesandgillz from the "Off Topics Msg Board" where the show was being discussed in a separate thread. You, wayne, decided to try and be cute and bring it up in the hockey threads.
I digress...
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dpms
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 12:18:30
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ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz
Hunters are the first true conservationists.
Yep!!
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 12:20:57
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ORIGINAL: fisher98
Well dpms, you may want to explain some of that to the owner of the website that you moderate. Here is what he said just a few years back about his chapter of PF.< "Northwest Pennsylvania is home to a lot of dedicated hunters and conservationists," added John Mack the chapter's vice president. "In a time when all the cities seem to be creeping outward into rural areas, I challenge Pennsylvania's conservationists to join our chapter and work toward making a future where our kids will enjoy days in the field filled with wildlife, clean water, and fresh air."
Explains why that site is nothing but a greeny ridden joke.
Oh the horror!! What was this wacko thinking when he said he wants to work towards for a future filled with wildlife, clean water and fresh air?
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wayne c
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 12:20:57
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Good points fisher98. That explains alot, but I think most knew all wasnt on the up and up by how many Pen feds were moderators and allowed to dicate the conversations, get away with personal attacks unmoderated etc. etc.
I see he speaks of 'hunters AND conservationists. Meaning NONHUNTING conservationists. Having those type in our hunting groups speaking as "hunters" is a huge mistake. Pennsylvania federation of sportsmen found that out when they lost a TON of membership when hunters fled in mass thanks to not being represented, having environmentalists within the group basically dictate organizations direction.
You also got Gillz right on. Hes the guy. lol. Shouldbe read the post were he was skeered to death of a few 13 and 14 year olds tossing stones in the water from shore while he was on his boat at Greenlick. lol. Dont take him too seriously. I know I don't.
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wayne c
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 12:23:00
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ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz
Hunters are the first true conservationists.
Yep!!
But this isnt talking about "hunters" Its speaking of taking NONHUNTER into hunting organizations. Lets see where have I heard this before? Oh thats right, that enviroextreme TED WILLIAMS. Been pushing the idea for many years now and admits its 100% about furthering environmentalists agendas politically etc.
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dpms
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 12:25:17
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
But this isnt talking about "hunters" Its speaking of taking NONHUNTER into hunting organizations. Lets see where have I heard this before? So SCI shouldn't welcome nonhunters into their ranks that also happen to support us and our sport? Or the NRA welcoming non gun owners that happen to believe it is our right to own and bear arms?
post edited by dpms - 2012/05/09 12:26:28
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wayne c
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 12:29:34
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ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter
ORIGINAL: fisher98
Well dpms, you may want to explain some of that to the owner of the website that you moderate. Here is what he said just a few years back about his chapter of PF.< "Northwest Pennsylvania is home to a lot of dedicated hunters and conservationists," added John Mack the chapter's vice president. "In a time when all the cities seem to be creeping outward into rural areas, I challenge Pennsylvania's conservationists to join our chapter and work toward making a future where our kids will enjoy days in the field filled with wildlife, clean water, and fresh air."
Explains why that site is nothing but a greeny ridden joke.
Oh the horror!! What was this wacko thinking when he said he wants to work towards for a future filled with wildlife, clean water and fresh air?
Yeah, I read the post and comprehend that as "the bad part" also. lmao.
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wayne c
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 12:31:53
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ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: wayne c
But this isnt talking about "hunters" Its speaking of taking NONHUNTER into hunting organizations. Lets see where have I heard this before?
So SCI shouldn't welcome nonhunters into their ranks that also happen to support us and our sport? Or the NRA welcoming non gun owners that happen to believe it is our right to own and bear arms?
Environmentalists should not be the voice of any hunting organization PERIOD. Only way to ensure that is to not have them as members, let alone go out of your way to encourage it. My view really cant get any more clear than that, I think.
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: Hunters United for Sunday Hunting
2012/05/09 12:33:54
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Yes what a enviro, antideer, wacko, and enviroextreme, idea to encourage other resourceful participants to strive towards such a goal. It has to be a conspiracy.
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