Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall

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dpms
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2012/01/26 07:44:16 (permalink)

Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall

I noticed this change in the fall turkey regs when I was looking over the results of the BOC meeting.  Didn't notice it at first.  The parts of 2A that are within Allegheny County will still be shotgun only but it looks like rifles in the fall turkey woods for WMU 1A, 1B and 2A.  
post edited by dpms - 2012/01/26 07:56:37

My rifle is a black rifle
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    bingsbaits
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/26 08:35:43 (permalink)
    Sure do not like that idea.

    Last year they were blasting them of the roost with shotguns.
    Rifles will make it just to easy for the straw hats.

    You can't kill a Turkey with a shotgun or archery equipment then you should go hunt sqirrels..

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #2
    S-10
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/26 09:05:27 (permalink)
    Wellll lets see---- (THE PROBLEM) 1. Turkeys with rifles in 1B were outlawed because of too many people getting shot with rifles. 2. The turkey population has decreased over 30% in the last ten years according to the PGC.

    (THE ANSWER)-- Lets allow the use of rifles thereby shooting off a few of our hunters and further depleting the turkey population.

    (WHY)--- Well, turkeys eat acorns that are potential logs for the timber industry and the Fisher aren't killing them off as fast as we would like.

    I also noticed that they are expanding the use of bait to kill the four legged pests.
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    bingsbaits
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/26 09:51:10 (permalink)
    (WHY)--- Well, turkeys eat acorns that are potential logs for the timber industry and the Fisher aren't killing them off as fast as we would like.


    Funny you mention the Turkeys affecting the timber regen.


    The man I work for was checking the Cherry regen on a piece of his property that had recently logged.

    He was very pleased, in the spring the little Cherry sprouts were everywhere.

    Went back to check the same plot a week later and a big flock of Turkeys had worked the area hard and ate up alot of his little Cherry trees..

    Turkeys went right to the top of his sh1t list.



    WHo would even lobby them for this change ???

    Or just some idea they cooked up themselves..


    Not sure I like the idea of sitting in a tree in full camo and having a bunch of yound buck straw hats running around the woods shooting big brown blobs in tree with rifles.

    At least if you get peppered by a shotgun you have a better chance of surviving.
    Rifles not so much.

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


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    dpms
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/26 11:53:42 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

    WHo would even lobby them for this change ???



    I did not hear anything before this meeting. I suspect though that possibly Martone was the driving force?  He is very much a streamline the regulations commissioner from my talks with him.  Only speculating but these three units were the only ones shotgun only and it wasa opportunity to button things up.

    He was also asking sportsmen how they felt about the back tag for flintlockers being good for a antlered deer only.  Felt that would steamline the regs but most sportsmen did not agree with that proposal so it didn't make the agenda.

    He plans to look at the orange regulation soon as well in a attempt to streamline them. Who knows what changes coming there.
    post edited by dpms - 2012/01/26 11:55:40

    My rifle is a black rifle
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    DarDys
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/26 12:52:12 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: dpms

    ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

    WHo would even lobby them for this change ???



    I did not hear anything before this meeting. I suspect though that possibly Martone was the driving force?  He is very much a streamline the regulations commissioner from my talks with him.  Only speculating but these three units were the only ones shotgun only and it wasa opportunity to button things up.

    He was also asking sportsmen how they felt about the back tag for flintlockers being good for a antlered deer only.  Felt that would steamline the regs but most sportsmen did not agree with that proposal so it didn't make the agenda.

    He plans to look at the orange regulation soon as well in a attempt to streamline them. Who knows what changes coming there.

     
    Are you saying that there is actually a BOC memebr that is attempting to make PGC game code uniform so that one doesn't need an attorney as a hunting buddy to understand all of the laws, rules, and regulations?  Did they bump their head?  There goes more tradition down the tubes.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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    S-10
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/26 13:03:39 (permalink)
    Are you saying that there is actually a BOC memebr that is attempting to make PGC game code uniform so that one doesn't need an attorney as a hunting buddy to understand all of the laws, rules, and regulations? Did they bump their head? There goes more tradition down the tubes.


    Keep the faith Dardys, Martone is also the one who agreed My eyesight wasn't as good as yours when counting brows.
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    startinout
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/26 15:49:15 (permalink)
    I'm sure I'll get bashed for my opinion, but I love the idea.  Now that my sons are old enough to take out in the woods with me, I've been doing a lot more squirrel hunting the last few years.  I used to love turkey hunting.  Now I can finally get my bird while still keeping my boys entertained looking for squirrels for me to shoot.  I could have gotten a turkey with my .17 almost every time out squirrel hunting last year.  I think it drove my 5 year old crazier than it drove me.  What's so different down here than up north?  Yeah I know, more houses.  But it doesn't seem like that's you concern.  The guys that would shoot at a turkey in a tree with a rifle, well you can't help stupid.  Wear an orange hat in the treestand if you're worried.  Or a vest too.  Camo for deer is overrated when hunting from a treestand.  I agree there's a lot of stupid game commission regulations, but not all of them are new ones. 
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    dpms
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/26 15:53:08 (permalink)
    I am kinda indifferent towards it.  I am usually archery hunting during fall turkey, but the new regulation may have me taking the .17 for a walk for a change of pace. I usually see quite a few birds off in the distance and this new opportunity has an appeal for me.
     
     

    My rifle is a black rifle
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    S-10
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/26 16:26:08 (permalink)
    It's either too dangerous according to the facts or it isn't. The PGC said it was too dangerous over the strong objections of many rifle hunters including myself when they originally banned it because of the number of hunters being shot while calling birds. The reasoning was you were much more apt to surive a shotgun blast than a rifle bullet and with fewer long term issues.

    Now they are going to legalize it to clean up the regulations???? Apparently it hasn't been too dangerous all these years they were claiming it was. As I recall, the year before they outlawed it in this area the son of a DWCO either was killed or killed someone else at long range who was hidden and calling.I'am a bit fuzzy on the details but it was a real heartbreak for all involved.
    #10
    Pork
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/26 16:49:03 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: retired guy

    Take the SNEAK and close up encounter outa Turkey Huntin and it aint Turkey Huntin anymore- Just another target shoot.


    And what's wrong with that?
    What skin is it off anyone's teeth what weapon is used to fill a tag?
    If it's a legal weapon to use, why not utilize it?
    Should I let it sit in the safe?

    I can get as up close as I want in the spring...
    in the fall, I'd like to get my bird as soon as possible & have time for other hunting.
    I also like to hunt rabbits, squirrels, & pheasants.
    Not to mention the fall walleyes to chase.

    This simply gives more opportunity for those other pursuits IMO.
    To each their own, huh?

    "If you ever get hit with a bucket of fish, be sure to close your eyes." ><)))*>
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    bingsbaits
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/26 21:33:54 (permalink)
    I guess I view Turkey hunting a little different.

    For me it's all in the chase and the calling.

    Getting that bird to come to me.

    Taking the 223 out would make for a very short hunt. If I can see it out to 300 yards I should be able to kill it. Just not "my" gig for Turkey hunting.

    My only concern is the safety aspect,"around here" as I've been stalked way to many times when I'm calling. Many inexperienced hunters here at home also....

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


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    Pork
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/27 09:27:05 (permalink)
    I feel the same as you about spring turkey. The fall season just isn't the same for me.
    Nothing like the hissing & drumming of a tom @ 10 yards...to actually feel the gobble on a cool spring morning.

    Like I said, I just think it's a nice option to have available.
    If they decide to come in close in the fall, I can flip the hammer to the 12 ga.
    If they're feeding 100yds away in a field, I'll use the Hornet & then go walleye fishing.

    I see where you're coming from with the guys that may shoot at a call/motion...
    I'd like to think we're better at target ID than that.
    I know the only thing I'll shoot when turkey hunting, is a turkey.
    (and maybe an unlucky squirrel)

    I wonder how much the injury/fatality stats increased during the last attempt at rifle inclusion...
    any of you stat buffs have that available?

    I guess the bottom line for me is;
    I'd like to see more acceptance & less persecution among sportsmen.
    Just tired of:
    Compound > Crossbow
    Fly > Spin < Pinning
    Archery > Rifle
    Lures > Bait
    Shotgun > Rifle
    Everyone should be able to make their choice without being 'called out' by another sportsmen because it doesn't fit their idea of whatever the 'true' form of the activity is.

    just my 2 sense

    "If you ever get hit with a bucket of fish, be sure to close your eyes." ><)))*>
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    S-10
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/27 09:43:42 (permalink)
    This is a piece of a study done by Penn State for the PGC assessing the effects of wearing Orange. My guess is if they go to rifles we will be dressed like pumpkins again (including archers)and will have to shoot them at 200 yards.

    For the seven selected game species, 1,345 hunting-related shooting incidents occurred in Pennsylvania between 1987 and 1999. There were 1,382 injuries and 77 fatalities accounting for nearly 92 percent of all hunting-related shooting injuries and 93 percent of such fatalities during this time period.

    Data showed that fall turkey hunters had the highest shooting-related injury rate at 7.5 per 100,000 hunters and grouse hunters had the lowest at 1.9 per 100,000. The case-fatality ratio or the number of fatalities per number of injuries was highest for deer at 10.3 percent and lowest for pheasant at 1.3 percent.
    post edited by S-10 - 2012/01/27 09:48:37
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    S-10
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/27 09:46:31 (permalink)
    x2
    post edited by S-10 - 2012/01/27 09:47:32
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    ready2fish
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/27 13:13:53 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

    I guess I view Turkey hunting a little different.

    For me it's all in the chase and the calling.

    Getting that bird to come to me.

    Taking the 223 out would make for a very short hunt. If I can see it out to 300 yards I should be able to kill it. Just not "my" gig for Turkey hunting.

    My only concern is the safety aspect,"around here" as I've been stalked way to many times when I'm calling. Many inexperienced hunters here at home also....

     
    X 2.  I personally see no enjoyment in sniping one with a rifle at longer ranges.
     
    The thought of inexperienced hunters seeing movement or hearing calling, and thinking it's a turkey, then taking a poke with a rifle scares me. I have been in situations where hunters were in the area with rifles and I was somewhat un-nerved, orange tree band out or not.
     
    Several years ago, I had broken a flock about 1/2 hour before dark. The next morning I was set up and birds began calling all around me. I could actually see one of the birds on a limb at about 100 yds out. I called some and in response the bird flew from his limb to one about 40 yds from me. She sat there for about 2 minutes and CRACK, a rifle shot goes off from behind me, and the bird flapped and fell all the way down. I saw it hit the ground running. I started yelling "stop, don't shoot, stop!"
    An older gent comes up behind me carrying a .22 mag......says he never knew I was there. That was mutual, I never saw or heard him either. Thank god he didn't shoot when the bird hit the ground, I was directly in his line of fire. He was about 70 yds behind me standing on a logging road. Yes, he took a 110 yd shot, bird on a limb, with his 22 mag.
     
    That hunt scared the heck out of me and I was glad when things changed in that WMU to not allow rifles. Now it may change back.........

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    rmcmillen09
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/30 16:29:35 (permalink)
    Don't like this idea at all, Too many trigger happy's have had several stalk my call and decoy's in the past . Pa. might cause me to give up hunting turks now ? What more can they do ! Idiots.    
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    mymuskyateyourbass
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/30 21:14:08 (permalink)
    Don't like the idea of rifles being used for turkeys.  Sniper shots at 200yards+ is not thrilling at all, at least to me.  Its a lot more sportsman like to have to do your homework, call in, and outsmart your prey.  Not all hunters have the ability to outsmart their prey and get them to come in close.  However with a bit of practice, patience, and learning from mistakes anyone can get a flock of turkeys to come within 15yards and not get "busted" by keen eyes. 

    Also don't like the idea because one of my tree stands is in a turkey honey hole and fear for my safety with all the idiots with rifles shooting any brown ball they see in a tree or on the ground. 

    Shooting a turkey with a shotgun or bow is difficult, that is what makes it special when you do succeed. 

    I missed a GIANT LONG beard with my bow this past fall.  Waited for 20 minutes for him to give me a shot with 30 other sets of eyes to have to avoid detection from.  When I finally did have a shot he was 25 yards out and I have no other excuse other than I pulled the shot and missed by an inch. 

    Was the day a loss?  NO!  I did succeed in being undetected by the flock for almost a half hour.  After I  shot they didn't go flying away, they just did a light jog for about 50 yards and went back to feeding before going up on the roost.

    Rifles may increase success for some but let us not forget that hunting is not about succeeding every time you venture out.  Its about being in nature and enjoying the time away from work, school, home, traffic, and other daily stresses. 

    post edited by mymuskyateyourbass - 2012/01/30 21:17:29

    Musky, all other fish are just bait!
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    BHbugger
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/31 17:03:24 (permalink)
    I think hitting a turkey in the head at 100 yards is 98172634554849 times more challenging than calling in a yearling bird who has just been separated ( chased away) from its mommy. I have literally had them running in to a whistle.
    #19
    retired guy
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/31 17:17:46 (permalink)
    Muskey- Savor that honey hole- have shot a few with the bow and it may be the greatest  thrill in bow hunting the North East. Honey holes however can change drastically with forest growth changing food sources and bird populations fluctuating not to mention over hunting and predator involvement- Have lost a few.
      It is one of those things where a good miss can be just as great a memory as a good harvest- sometimes even more exciting---
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    rmcmillen09
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/31 17:39:12 (permalink)
    Have had met 2 people who have been shot calling turkeys with a shotgun. 1 had 3 pellets in his lung,several lodged in his shoulder, lost an eye. He said the guy kept coming at him gun raised and he thought he was gonna get finished off because the the guys eyes when he ran up to him with gun still trained on him . 2nd guy was hit in his face,ear,eye,and shoulder he now has an arm that hangs on him like a rag. That guy did help him out of the woods though. I don't want some inexperienced person shooting at long range when He/She can learn how to effectively hunt turkey safely !!!! I do think it would be cool to pick off turks from long range but is it worth the grievous wounds and lives that WILL be lost think about it.       
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    retired guy
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/01/31 18:30:06 (permalink)
    Saw a TV show once where they were doin real long range Turkey in Hawian  Islands (sp)
    Those guys were out well lover 200 shootin at birds way across rolling hillsides of cattle range.
    Just sittin there shootin kinda like they were out for Chucks on a summer afternoon.
    If ya wanna shoot Chucks go ahead-  Turkey HUNTING is far more challenging an funner too.
    Gotta admit though there are way tooooo many stories from all of us bout nitwits after Turkey. I try and keep it down to Pvt properties with VERY limited hunting from others- if any at all.
      First year at my place up in Pulaski NY right out back the house on my own land- was sittin there purrin and cluckin and here comes the nitwit making all kinda noise movin in fast. All camoed up .Gun in one hand and camo seat in the other- at bout 30 yds I stood up  cause his gun was down in one hand- he looked and took off quick as he came in.
      I quit right then and there for the day ---idiot runnin around like that----
    post edited by retired guy - 2012/01/31 18:37:11
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    BHbugger
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/02/01 07:31:45 (permalink)
    An idiot is an idiot, no matter what weapon they are carrying.
    I just get a little worried when I see sportsmen divided over things like this. Easier for the anti's when we aren't united. I also hunt woodchucks with my recurve on occasion. I'm no Tred Barta, but I do like a challenge.

    I just happen to think it's way more challenging to HEAD SHOOT a turkey at 1-200 yards (heck, even 50 yards) with a .17 fireball, than it is to call in a fall bird. ANYBODY can get a freshly busted from the flock fall bird to come running in. Usually several birds coming in from all directions.

    You guys with the bows, now that's a challenge. Unless you use a ground blind. The biggest challenge with birds is getting busted moving. Their ability to detect movement is amazing.

    All that said, I do 99.99999% of my turkey hunting with either my 835 12 ga. or an old H&R single shot 10 ga.

    I also prefer my shotguns for predator hunting, but have been known to pack the .22-250

    BTW- Great topic/discussion. It got me to finally stop lurking and register. I like that people here can debate things without insults/name-calling like you see on too many other message boards.
    #23
    DarDys
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/02/01 08:42:20 (permalink)
    While I don't hunt in the WMUs listed, I do have a concern about rifles in turkey season.  Since I, and quite a few people I know run bird dogs, what are the chances of a person hunting grouse, timberdoodles, or chased to the woods pheasants for that matter, getting a dog shot by someone thinking they saw a turkey (especially true of liver, brown, or black colored dogs) at a distance and popping it with a rifle?

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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    retired guy
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/02/01 10:31:24 (permalink)
    BH- agree on the anti fodder- its one of my pet peeves with hunters all over- sometimes we hurt ourselves.
    The unfortunate reality however seems to be that hunting in close proximity of game seems to cause some to disregard common sense and basic safety concerns . "Buck fever" ???
      Seems to be far too common with Turkey setups as can be seen on the forum reports both this year and last- dont read so much bout this kinda stuff with other forms of hunting- ---thankfully.
    Perhaps cause this is bout the only Hunt we commonly do where we camo up and sit out in  the woods trying to act like the Game itself. It therefore requires a far greater degree of tolerance and safety measures from we hunters.
      Imagine putting out 2 or 3 deer decoys including undersized bucks and then sitting close by in full camo grunting.  WOW - same thing.
    post edited by retired guy - 2012/02/01 10:53:28
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    dpms
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/02/01 10:36:39 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: DarDys

    While I don't hunt in the WMUs listed, I do have a concern about rifles in turkey season.  Since I, and quite a few people I know run bird dogs, what are the chances of a person hunting grouse, timberdoodles, or chased to the woods pheasants for that matter, getting a dog shot by someone thinking they saw a turkey (especially true of liver, brown, or black colored dogs) at a distance and popping it with a rifle?

     
    It has been legal to use rifles for fall turkey in most of the state for a long time. I have not heard of the above happening but not saying that is hasn't.

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #26
    DarDys
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/02/01 11:22:51 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: dpms

    ORIGINAL: DarDys

    While I don't hunt in the WMUs listed, I do have a concern about rifles in turkey season.  Since I, and quite a few people I know run bird dogs, what are the chances of a person hunting grouse, timberdoodles, or chased to the woods pheasants for that matter, getting a dog shot by someone thinking they saw a turkey (especially true of liver, brown, or black colored dogs) at a distance and popping it with a rifle?


    It has been legal to use rifles for fall turkey in most of the state for a long time. I have not heard of the above happening but not saying that is hasn't.

     
    Understood.  But I still have the concern.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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    BHbugger
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/02/01 13:45:32 (permalink)
    Retired Guy- Great analogy with the deer decoys. No way would I ever.lol

    Dardys- I do not hunt pheasants for much the same reason. I hunted near canoe creek state park once and was showered with bb's several times before I got outta there. It looked like opening day of trout but everyone had a 12 gauge. I wish we didn't have to rely on stocking for pheasant because I really do enjoy hunting them.

    "My only fear is that when I die my wife will sell my fishing gear for what I said I paid for it."
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    DarDys
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/02/01 14:35:49 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: BHbugger

    Retired Guy- Great analogy with the deer decoys. No way would I ever.lol

    Dardys- I do not hunt pheasants for much the same reason. I hunted near canoe creek state park once and was showered with bb's several times before I got outta there. It looked like opening day of trout but everyone had a 12 gauge. I wish we didn't have to rely on stocking for pheasant because I really do enjoy hunting them.


     
    Canoe Creek is one of the worst combat hunting places that I know.  I am close to there, but more often than not, drive right on by.  If I do go there, it is only during the week, it is only midday so that the morning crowd is gone and the after work people aren't there yet, and if there are more than three cars in the lot, I move on elsewhere.
     
    Getting rained on with shot is one thing, which is bad enough, but getting a dog killed would probably result in me getting into serious trouble.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #29
    S-10
    Pro Angler
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    RE: Rifles in 1A, 1B and 2A for fall 2012/02/01 15:26:06 (permalink)
    Anybody who has hunted stocked ringnecks, turkey and ducks for very long has probably experienced hard rain a time or two in their life on either themselves or their dog. I just have no desire to experience it at 2800+ fps.
    post edited by S-10 - 2012/02/01 15:27:25
    #30
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