I am 34, started hunting at age 12 with my dad. Hunting is by far my favorite past time. I spend as much time as possible in the woods and enjoy the chase more than killing. My dad has always an avid hunter and took me in the woods before I was 12. He did not bring me out everytime with him, but enough to perk my interest. I have 2 young children that some day I would like to hunt with dad and I. I ask myself all the time, why am I so interested and what can I do to ensure my kids are?

I am not sure the answer is the mentored hunt. It may be, but I never had that opportunity yet I am as avid as they get. Things come too easy for kids now a days and they get what they want. Everything is instant gratification. I had to wait until I was 12 to join my dad and family, there was a rite of passage that was passed on, but I still had to wait. I learned a lot about hunting from stories of hunts, late nights tracking deer, lost knives at gut piles, etc. The anticipation partially is what hooked me. Also, wanting to make my dad proud because of his hunting experiences that he had shared with me prior to me even being able to hunt.

Can a 8-10 year old comprehend the experience especially if it is all about killing something? I do not think so. Some of my fondess memories are going a field with my dad prior to me actually being able to hunt. I want to pass that on to my children, and am not sure the mentored hunt is the answer. Some of the best things come to those that wait!

Sorry Doc but putting 360 birds in one area small enough that kids had the opportunity to fire nearly a box of shells isn't even close to what normal public pheasant hunting is about. It was done to allow that group of kids a lot of opportunities to shoot and see birds. The remaining birds are there for the rest of the season but to compare what happened that day to the normal pheasant hunting in Pennsylvania is incorrect. Heck it wasn't even that good back in the heyday of pheasant stocking in the sixties/seventies.

If you read the postings they stocked all the birds earmarked for the entire season in that area for the youth hunt. The rest of the state got their share of the 15,000 birds earmarked for the youth hunt only.

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

How is that any different than on a preserve.

Very very very simple.. I or even you or any licensed hunter (in fact even those same kids)can go to that exact area tomorrow and shoot at any of the birds that are there.. the kids did not get them all

I don't image we or anyone can go to that preserve and shoot any of those remaining birds without a fee being charged....

is that easy enough to understand the difference....

The birds the PGC and PF stocked are now available to everyone, so it shows what public land pheasant hunting is like where the birds are stocked!!!

How many kids were there the next day to experience REAL public land hunting..

Nice try Doc, Fail.....

ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

How is that any different than on a preserve.

Very very very simple.. I or even you or any licensed hunter (in fact even those same kids)can go to that exact area tomorrow and shoot at any of the birds that are there.. the kids did not get them all

I don't image we or anyone can go to that preserve and shoot any of those remaining birds without a fee being charged....

is that easy enough to understand the difference....

The birds the PGC and PF stocked are now available to everyone, so it shows what public land pheasant hunting is like where the birds are stocked!!!

How many kids were there the next day to experience REAL public land hunting..

Nice try Doc, Fail.....

They couldn't be there the next day -- we don't have Sunday hunting in PA.

But to continue with your theme, how many were there the rest of the week -- on Columbus Day, after school, and on the next Saturday?

ORIGINAL: Goodsy

I am 34, started hunting at age 12 with my dad. Hunting is by far my favorite past time. I spend as much time as possible in the woods and enjoy the chase more than killing. My dad has always an avid hunter and took me in the woods before I was 12. He did not bring me out everytime with him, but enough to perk my interest. I have 2 young children that some day I would like to hunt with dad and I. I ask myself all the time, why am I so interested and what can I do to ensure my kids are?

I am not sure the answer is the mentored hunt. It may be, but I never had that opportunity yet I am as avid as they get. Things come too easy for kids now a days and they get what they want. Everything is instant gratification. I had to wait until I was 12 to join my dad and family, there was a rite of passage that was passed on, but I still had to wait. I learned a lot about hunting from stories of hunts, late nights tracking deer, lost knives at gut piles, etc. The anticipation partially is what hooked me. Also, wanting to make my dad proud because of his hunting experiences that he had shared with me prior to me even being able to hunt.

Can a 8-10 year old comprehend the experience especially if it is all about killing something? I do not think so. Some of my fondess memories are going a field with my dad prior to me actually being able to hunt. I want to pass that on to my children, and am not sure the mentored hunt is the answer. Some of the best things come to those that wait!

 
In a round about way, I think you hit the nail on the head -- either the kids want to hunt or they don't.  You obviously did and hope that your children do as well. 
 
But let me relate a story about a friend of mine's son.  My friend grew up in a rural area of PA.  His father hunter as did his four uncles.  His father at 82 and his surviving uncles, all in the late 70's/early 80's still hunt.  He and his wife are professionals -- pharmacist and lawyer.  They still live in central PA.
 
Every year, my friend comes up for a preserve hunt (it would be nice if he  offered to pay just once -- LOL) because, to use a term that is often demonized on this site, it's not worth it for him to drive several hours each way to hit the public ground for either few birds (well after stocking) or a 30 minute hunt (on stpcking or opening days).
 
Two years ago, when his son was ten, he brought him along.  His son is into the outdoors -- Boy Scout, flyfisher, fly tier, kayaker, hiker, etc.
 
It was a wonderful fall day, not to hot, not to cold, sunny, fall foliage in full color, soft wind, and plenty of birds.  We hunted just short of four hours and flew many, many birds (my friend is one of the adults that Doc points out that can't hit flying objects with any regularity).  I checked a photo from the hunt and we had about a dozen or more birds in the bag.
 
His son paid close attention and was very much into the hunt, the dogs, being out with "the guys."  Since he had never fired a shotgun at that point, he did not want to participate by shooting at a bird (which he can do on a preserve).  After the hunt, we took him to the 5-stand and let him shoot at clays until he was tired and wanted to stop.  It was pretty much a "big" day for him.
 
On the way to get some food, my friend asked his son waht he thought of the hunting.  He said that t was really cool, but thought there would have been a lot more birds. 
 
A lot more birds?  A dozen were in the bag.  Two or three times that were produced.
 
My friend explained to him that when he was his son's age, he couldn't hunt because he had ot be 12.  He also explained that the grown-ups didn't take the kids along because it interfeared with their hunt when the kids couldn't keep up or got tired.  When they old enough to hunt, the kids often became the "dogs" and all that old time crap -- hunting up hill both ways in two feet of snow and such.  Some true, some really embellished.
 
But he did tell him that even though there were a lot more pheasants back then (35 years ago) he saw more birds today in four hours than he typically would see in four season.  And further, during the whole time he hunted, from age 12 until college, he didn't harvest as many birds as we just did this morning.
 
He then asked what his sone thougth about that.
 
The answer:
 
"I would have bagged it and went fishing if I were you."
 
His son turned 12 this year and did not take the hunter's safety course.  He will accompany his father to the backside of their property for the first day of deer and after school sits, but he is within walking alone distance of going back to the house on his own.  Whether he ever decides hunting is for him remains to be seen.

so let's see what we are REALLY saying is that many youth are losing interest even if there is plenty of game to harvest... and they are given opportunites to harvest game

I seem to recall saying it was not all about lack of deer...

It's a lack of interest in hunting as a whole.... too much other activities on their plates to get excited about killing animals...

I seem to recall saying it was not all about lack of deer...

And that's where your dead wrong---Deer is the only thing keeping the train running. Kids are hard to keep interested in small game, any small game. Blame it on television, blame it on QDMA and their interest in big racks, blame it on the magazines that promote big bucks, the fact is that 94 to 96% of hunters hunt DEER and some hunt other things.

The PGC's own research says the number one thing causing the loss of hunters is lack of Game and the one game animal we all hunt is DEER. The only other game that generates any interest is Turkey and what is 90% of the TV programs on---DEER and TURKEY. A successful business takes care of their (Cash Cow) and the PGC's Cash Cow is the WHITETAILED DEER. Keep your head in the sand all you want but the DEER and how it is handled by the PGC will determine if RSB's next uniform will say Game Commission or Flower Power.

Who got stuck stocking 1 bird per every 14 acres?
Had to be quite the show and took all day.

Dardys group had several hundred sign up, does that mean his hunt was more successful than yours and your group should be taking lessons from his? Big difference between signing up and actually participating. You had 36 last year also, and 43 the year before.

 
There has been a different number of hunters accepted for the mentored hunt each year, based on the number of dog handlers willing to bring and work their dogs. Some years there were only 30 kids accepted for the hunt. Some years everyone accepted for the hunt showed up too so what does your comment about the hunter numbers have to do with anything other than the fact you are trying to make points about a subject you don’t know enough about to have even a slight clue of what you are talking about.
 

You stocked the whole seasons allotment the day before the hunt, not just the birds allocated for the youth hunt. It most certainly was for the kids in that group. Not saying that was necessarly a bad thing if the rest of the countys hunters don't care but why BS about it.

 
Once again you don’t have a clue what you are talking. The comments you are making only proves that you don’t have a clue about the way the hunt is organized or the birds stocked unless you are simply so intent on discrediting a great and successful program you are intentionally posting misleading none sense.
 
The 360 pheasants stocked for the youth hunting season was just that; “pheasants allocated and stocked before the youth pheasant season” and available to ALL junior hunters.
 
That most certainly was not the entire season allocation for the area. There were 1180 additional pheasants allocated for that game lands that were stocked the week before the regular season and then there are two in-season stockings.
 

-------Signs will be posted along the highway denoting the area authorized for the hunt. The hunt area is located west of State Route 219 in a reclaimed strip mine on PA State Game Lands #44, specifically the Shawmut Tract off Shawmut Road in Horton Township. The hunt area is approximately one thousand acres in size,------

As far as the 1000-acre hunt area comment that too just shows that you don’t have a clue about what you are talking about.
 
The Pheasants Forever Youth Pheasant Hunt Committee mapped out about 1000 acres of the much larger pheasant stocking area into six different hunt zones. They then started a mentored hunter/dog teams in each of those zones every hour until all of the youth had completed a two hour mentored hunt. It is done that way so that the mentored hunting/dog teams aren’t all trying to hunt the same areas and thus spread out enough to be safe and to allow plenty of room for the many hunters there that aren’t part of the Pheasants Forever Mentored Hunt.
 
A number of the mentored youth that didn’t harvest their limit hang around after their allotted two hour mentored hunt time. Then once the mentored hunts for the day are all completed (usually early afternoon) many of the dog handlers will pick up a couple of the junior hunters and parents still there and head back out to do some more hunting. Not all of the youth or all of the dog handlers stay for impromptu hunts but many of those with several dogs will keep a dog in reserve for those later hunting opportunities. Some of the dogs and even dog handlers are older and simply can’t do additional hunts. Some years it is hot and both the dogs and handlers aren’t up to long hunts in the afternoon.
 
Many of those later in the day impromptu hunts are in areas with birds other than one of the zones that make the 1000 acres of pre-designated mentored hunt zone. There is about 5000 acres of SGL # 44 (in that portion of the pheasant stocking area and area stocked for the youth pheasant season) that is extensively managed for small game and pheasants use most of it even though not all of it is within the easiest access area must used by most pheasant hunters. The Pheasants Forever Mentored Hunt only uses a moderate portion of the entire area stocked with pheasants and many other junior hunters that aren’t part of the mentored hunt use those same areas plus much more of the stocked area. The Pheasants Forever mentored hunt only sets maps out the zones that are mostly just open fields, instead of escape cover, because we want to keep our youth out where they can see the dogs working and also where they aren’t as likely to not see other approaching hunters. It is done that way to keep things as safe as possible even though we know that once the birds get pressured they would find more birds in the heavier cover.             
 
What about that those facts do you find to be anything other that good planning and a benefit to ALL hunters interesting in pheasant hunting. Or is it that you just insist on undermining anything and everything that is a positive and not fitting into your negative attitude about everything a government agency might be involved with?
 

36 equals more than fifty-----1,000 equals 5,000----You have to love the PGC's math----No wonder we have so many deer and such a wonderful deer kill even as thousands are dropping out each year due to LACK OF GAME per the PGC's own research.

 

You don't find enough birds in that short a hunt for kids to get nearly a box of shots without large concentrations and/or a lot of (spin and tuck). Some of us have been on these hunts a mentors or helpers and know how they are conducted.

Rose colored glasses and fuzzy math. No wonder the PGC fails to address the problems they have. They fail to even see them.

 
Are you just being a good-ball or are you incapable of understanding that the 53 applicants is more than 50, just as I pointed out from the very beginning. And, of course as I already pointed out there were many youth there over and above the 36 mentored youth that were part of the Pheasants Forever Mentored Hunt.
 
So what point were you making, other than simply displaying another or your negative outlook on everything and undermine anything anyone says that would be positive posts?
 

Bottom line is both groups put in a lot of time, effort, and money to put on a good hunt for those that show up. It's too bad more youth don't take advantage of the opportunity.

 
That was pretty much the only thing in your entire post that was correct and not a negative so I will give you credit for at lease ending your comments on a positive note.
 
As with many of the mentored hunts being held across the state though I want to make it clear that we could find many more youth that wanted to take advantage of the opportunities if we had more mentors and dog handlers willing to donate their time and efforts toward getting more youth involved. The limiting factor on how many youth are accepted into each year’s Youth Pheasant Hunt, at least in this area, isn’t in finding youth willing to participate. The limiting factor every year is in finding enough dogs and handlers to accept as many youth as want to be a part of the hunt. There is also the problem that sometimes some of the kids that do have applications in don’t make it to the mandatory safety day. That can happen for a number of reasons such as happened this year when we lost four from one family due to a death in the family. But, I suspect that most of the time they don’t show up it was their means of transportation to the safety day or the event that fails instead of their interest in the event.
 
To make these types of events more successful and get more kids involved and recruited into hunting what we really need is more positive people willing to come out and donate their time and dogs as a good mentor. If we had that we could get more kids into hunting and retain then as hunters as well.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn       

.

remember bings...the PGC is never wrong




They are called ditch chickens for a reason

Chill S-10..

Your hatred of the PGC is showing...


While you are so caught up in arguing and be-littling RSB for the "particpated" statement you are saying nothing about Dars saying his hunt was "NOT SPONSORED" by anyone ..


yet he cearly posted - food was provided by someone and who supplied the birds if it was not sponsored by somone .. remember he said the $50 was NOT for the birds it was to help insure folks would show up for the thing... did the birds just show up on their own ???

The hunt was held at a preserve and is the cooperative effort of the preserve, some local bird dog kennels, local outdoor gear merchants, SCI, and many more.


--------

The cost per youth was $50. The reason for the fee is that in the past when no fee was charged, over 50% of those signed up for the hunt never showed. The fee gives them a little skin in the game.

Appears to me maybe both were just trying to defend their hunts ... but you singled out the PGC guy to attack as usual ...

While you are so caught up in arguing and be-littling RSB for the "particpated" statement you are saying nothing about Dars saying his hunt was "NOT SPONSORED" by anyone ..

What in he// are you talking about? Do you even read the posts or is it your problem with reading comprehension again.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with my opinion of the PGC. It has everything to do with a man who is running one group embellishing the results of his hunt, while putting down the honest results of another group trying to do the same thing.

If RSB would not have made the statement that the group he is the president of (just know how to inspire young hunters) or words to that effect This conservation would not have happened.

I have already said several times that both groups and businesses involved put forth a lot of time, effort, and money to put on a good program. The fact is that RSB glosses over the problems as he always does and he put down Dardys for being honest. You as always, support everything he says even when the facts prove it is BS.

He claimed over 50 participants for 45 slots. The facts show 36 participants
He claims over 5,000 acres---the facts show 1,000
He claims nearly a box of shots for many kids at the same time he claims one bird per 14 acres. What were they using AK-47's. Do the math. They could not have covered enough ground to find that many birds in 2 hours.

Go on the PGC website, look at the allocations for the various junior hunts, and the number of locations and then try to tell me they didn't flood that area with birds. I don't have a problem with that but do have a problem with Bull shi//ing about it when trying to make yourslf good and someone else look bad.

Both groups tried their best, both put on good hunts, both groups had a hard time filling available slots, If one group had been honest in their reporting rather than putting down the other group this discussion would not have taken place. I have now beaten it to death. Sorry

ORIGINAL: S-10

While you are so caught up in arguing and be-littling RSB for the "particpated" statement you are saying nothing about Dars saying his hunt was "NOT SPONSORED" by anyone ..

What in he// are you talking about? Do you even read the posts or is it your problem with reading comprehension again.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with my opinion of the PGC. It has everything to do with a man who is running one group embellishing the results of his hunt, while putting down the honest results of another group trying to do the same thing.

If RSB would not have made the statement that the group he is the president of (just know how to inspire young hunters) or words to that effect This conservation would not have happened.

I have already said several times that both groups and businesses involved put forth a lot of time, effort, and money to put on a good program. The fact is that RSB glosses over the problems as he always does and he put down Dardys for being honest. You as always, support everything he says even when the facts prove it is BS.

He claimed over 50 participants for 45 slots. The facts show 36 participants
He claims over 5,000 acres---the facts show 1,000
He claims nearly a box of shots for many kids at the same time he claims one bird per 14 acres. What were they using AK-47's. Do the math. They could not have covered enough ground to find that many birds in 2 hours.

Go on the PGC website, look at the allocations for the various junior hunts, and the number of locations and then try to tell me they didn't flood that area with birds. I don't have a problem with that but do have a problem with Bull shi//ing about it when trying to make yourslf good and someone else look bad.

Both groups tried their best, both put on good hunts, both groups had a hard time filling available slots, If one group had been honest in their reporting rather than putting down the other group this discussion would not have taken place. I have now beaten it to death. Sorry

The fact is the area of that game lands where the habitat is managed for small, the youth pheasants are stocked and open to ALL youth pheasant hunters is IN FACT 4930 acres. It is also a FACT that there were 53 youth ACCEPTED as participants in this year’s mentored hunt. I guess it is also fact that not all of the 53 accepted applicants showed up for the safety day and/or the hunt for any number of various reasons. SO WHAT?
 
The FACT is not one of those participants from this year or the 430 total that this groups has mentored has ever come back and voiced a complaint or displayed anything but a positive attitude about hunting. THAT IS A POSITIVE not the negative DarDys painted of the attitude his hunters came back with.
 
This is what DarDy had to say about the attitude of the youth at his hunt.

“At the lunch after the hunts, there were some excited youths, there were some good stories being told, and there were some young hunters that now had an interest.  But there were just as many that were talking about it not being worth the effort, that there should have been more birds, that it was too hard, that the door prizes weren't great, etc. and not all of that was coming from the youths.  This year, the preserve did not clean the birds (the person that volunteered last year had a prior committment) and there were birds left because they were not cleaned fro them.”

 
It is a FACT that I have never seen or heard anyone complain about any of those things or anything else at any of the mentored hunts I have attended with those 430 Pheasants Forever Mentored hunters. So, I actually believe it was DarDys who was purposely painting a negative picture where no such picture needed to be painted.
 
Then he just couldn’t help but not only paint but do his best to perpetuate even more negative attitude and get his digs in not only on this site but with other hunters, including a new youth hunter with this comment.
 

“I was slated to guide a trip in the afternoon, but it was cancelled because the mother of one of the youths (he and his father were going to hunt) called and said they had to be home for some other activity.  So I had the afternoon to head out for some PGC birds.  I took a friend, and one of the father/son groups from the youth hunt that I guided with me.  We didn't do too well, it was late afternoon by the time we got there, the dogs were tired from the morning, the birds were worked over pretty hard by the morning hunters, etc. and we only ended up with two downed birds.  The youth, as hard as we tried, didn't get a shot in the three hours we put in.

I told the father, "I guess your son now knows the difference between going on a hunt (preserve) and going hunting (PGC birds)."”  

 
I am simply pointing out how youth respond by losing interest in hunting or at least in hunting with a person with a negative attitude. If anyone don’t understand that and doesn’t know it to be a FACTUAL part of why many youth give up on hunting they must be living in a horribly unreal existence of reality.
 
People who are mentoring others in anything need to understand just how much positive or negative influence they can have on what direction their ward is going to go in the future. Negative attitudes with youth are not going to be what is best for the future of hunting.
 
When I get the time, which I don’t have now, I will post a few examples of how positive attitudes can also make a positive difference in the future of hunting.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

Just in case some have never seen or read this ==

http://drsems.tripod.com/brockway.html

BTW ... one thing I did NOT mention in the article was that even before we left we spotted "raptors" flying around the area... I guess the "squawking" the birds made when release drew them in ... ??