Unbelieveable statement: Shame on them, not shame on me

Committees examine privatization and commercialization of the state's streams
Sunday, April 08, 2007

By John Hayes, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Like waking up on the morning of a fishing trip and finding the water conditions have changed, the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission, Trout Unlimited and to some extent anglers at large are waking up to new conditions that are limiting their access to the water.

For years, real estate developers, private clubs and frustrated landowners have posted streamside properties. But it's been only a short time since the Commission and the Pennsylvania branch of the nationwide, cold-water advocacy group Trout Unlimited have convened committees to investigate the problem and work on solutions.

As anglers gear up for the traditional opening day of trout season Saturday, it's hard to tell whether they've lost or gained ground since last year. On the plus side, the Commission has acquired new properties in steelhead country, and the commercial fishing empire of the exclusive Spring Ridge Club has lost its court fight to keep nonmembers off 1.3 miles of the Little Juniata River. The club is appealing.

But across the commonwealth, no one knows how many streamside farms and back lots, where anglers were once welcomed, have fallen in the past year to developers. How many streamside landowners have picked up the last Styrofoam bait cup, snelled-hook packet and bird's nest of monofilament line from their backyards and said, "Enough"?

The Fish and Boat Commission recently reported that:
83 percent of stocked trout waters run through private property.
70 percent of waters containing wild trout are on privately held land.
59 percent of Class A wild trout waters are on private property.

"Access is becoming more of a focus for us," said Fish and Boat Commission spokesman Dan Tredinnick. "Historically, we've always considered these things on a case-by-case basis. But it's not just a local issue. As a general trend, we seem to be losing to the privatization or commercialization of land."

Since last year, the commission has used its Lake Erie Access Improvement Program in six land purchases totalling 67.4 acres and 12,120 linear feet of stream frontage. Some $555,000 from angler's Erie stamps was used to leverage $1.7 million from other sources. At the commission's quarterly meeting April 15-17, proposals will be made to acquire easements on two Erie area properties: 2,350 feet along Crooked Creek in Springfield Township, and a parcel along Walnut Creek about 1/3 mile south of the Walnut Creek Marina. Unlike purchases and leases, public access easements are permanently attached to the property.

As the access issue has heated up, some of the 12,000 members from 54 Pennsylvania chapters of Trout Unlimited have questioned the absence of a proactive policy on the matter. "That's a fair question," said state council vice-president Ed Bellis. "Speaking mainly from a Pennsylvania perspective ... most of our leadership at the state council level comes from areas that have good access to fishing, and I think we're late getting involved." Trout Unlimited recently formed a committee that will spend the next year conducting a poll to gauge member's concerns. State council president Ken Undercoffer said the group has been informally asked by the Fish Commission to look for properties ripe for acquisition and report back to the state. In some places, the effort will be too little too late.

As dropping water temperatures catch the attention of spring steelhead, anglers will be able to watch from the Route 5 bridge over Twentymile Creek as members of the private Spring Ridge Club, on leased property, catch and release fish that were stocked in a program funded by anglers' purchase of Erie stamps. "It's easy to see why people would be upset with the commercialization of public resources," Tredinnick said. Spring Ridge Club owner Donny Beaver points the blame back at the Fish Commission for its decision to stock, "knowing the stream was nonnavigable and the fish were going to migrate through every private property of the stream, ... knowing full well [the landowner] can control who wades and fishes there? Shame on them, not shame on me."

Beaver's high profile makes his the public face of the privatization issue. But the commercialization of Pennsylvania trout streams began with the first private fishing club more than 100 years ago. Spring Ridge is the most exclusive and vocal, but many clubs keep a lower profile. "[Beaver] is missing the point," said trout and steelhead guide John Nagy. "He's trying to exclude the public. The Fish Commission is trying to work with the landowners. We should be doing everything we can to make the tribs open to the public. If we can't, we should cut back on the stocking program. Why should Donny Beaver benefit?"

In central Pennsylvania, a few miles upstream from Beaver's holdings along Spruce Creek and the Little Juniata, Spruce Creek Fly Co. owner Eric Stroup says the absence of public oversight on commercialized waters leads to overstocking and what he terms the "pollution" of in-stream feeding. Beaver says the trout in his waters grow large because of his club's catch-and-release policy, but his neighbor Stroup argues that while boosting the angling quality on private portions of streams, property owners and private clubs, including the Spring Ridge Club and the Spruce Creek Rod & Gun Club, are damaging their own waters and spreading the contamination downstream.

"After they stock, they feed them every day," Stroup said. "Fish pellets. Those fish will get as big as you want them. The problem is, protein from the feed is horrible for the steam. All the feed is really bad for bug life, too, [and] the effluent from an unnaturally large number of very large fish is 10 times what it should be. It's not only in their sections of the stream, it washes down. It's a bad thing."

While the Fish Commission, Trout Unlimited and others search for ways to slow commercialization and keep fishing a public enterprise, anglers can help by doing a few easy things when they get on the water Saturday. "Before you go onto someone's property, ask permission," said Bellis. "Even if it's not posted, make some connections." "Don't leave worm cans behind or urinate in somebody's yard," Undercoffer said. "Join a conservancy or TU, and talk about this problem with other fishermen. Let them know we can do something about it." "Don't litter," said Nagy. "Close a gate behind you. Some people think when you go fishing you have to drink alcohol. These are some of the people who cause some of these problems." "People think fishing is a right in Pennsylvania," Tredinnick said. "It's a privilege that, more often than not, is granted by a private property owner. Individual acts of angler responsibility go much farther than anything we could ever do as a government organization."

come on...  we need better than that one.  besides, that was the shot used for the "Purina" ad.

so thats what a smiling turd looks like.

I find it odd that Eric Stroup has anti-SRC quotes since he is supposedly connected with them.

Spoon...hit the nail right on the head, we are losing land for ourselves...The Beav is just cashing in,
 
Not that I agree with it, but its the sad truth.

What burns me up about this guy is that he flys the conservation banner, when in fact, his practices are the exact opposite.
I offer the water quality on the Little J as exhibit 1.
The changing of Spruce Creek as exhibit 2.
Yellow Creek and the fish that will hit the dog food fly, exhibit 3.
But he's a conservationist.

To be honest, if he wants to lease land and fish for the fish that are there, then I've got no problem.

However, the 20th century taught us that destroying the environment in the name of "progress" is a bad idea.
We've been righting the wrongs and now we have cleaner rivers and streams.

It appears that this guy feels that because he leases the land, he can throw whatever he wishes
in the water and the hell with the people downstream.

I don't know if Beaver feeds any fish on yellow creek or not. I'm told he does on the other streams.   There is a guy that feeds the fish on yellow creek, but it's not Beaver.  It's a guy that keeps the stream open to fishing.  Not an automatic feeder either, he just comes out and tosses a cup full of dog food in. The fish go nuts and it's all devoured withing 10 seconds. Not sure what, if any impact something like that would have on the stream. I can't imagine much.

By feeding you can keep more fish than the streams natural  carrying capacity.  The excess fish excessively fed produce more waste.  There is bacteria in the stream that eats the waste.  The bacteria can not handle all of the waste and this pollutes the water.
 
Just curious why they can't just declare the posted land nursery waters and completely close it.  Sounds simple, but I don't know the laws.
 

Boy, this guy is a snake.
 
I thought only drug dealers and the mob needed "fronts" for there business

I would like to hope that pushing for this sort of legislation will not be necessary.  The erosion of freedoms and certain rights in this country is getting out of hand. 
 
I am not sure we would be able to control the snowball once it gets rolling.
 
Doc

Tippy
 
I believe all the relative agencies are aware of his practices. I believe that both the PF&BC, and the DCNR have the authority to stop such practices arbitrarilly. I suspect, however that they are compiling the scientific data to support such action to ENSURE that it would hold up in court. It is generally best to act, rather than re-act.
 

ORIGINAL: tippy-toe

Interesting point Flash..... I wonder if his practices violate the clean streams law. Just because you own or lease the land doesn't exclude you from state regulations.  

Maybe someone with a little more knowledge of his "feeding" practices can e-mail a local PADEP office with the information, and see what if any violations exist.

www.dep.state.pa.us


http://www.depweb.state.pa.us/watersupply/cwp/view.asp?a=3&Q=495897&watersupplyNav=|30536|&watersupplyNav=|

ORIGINAL: Rtom45

Maybe its time to pressure our legislators to change the law.  All waterways to the normal high water mark should become the property of the state.  Anglers would have access thru public locations, not thru private property.  Once at the stream you are free to move within the high water mark along the stream.  If I'm not mistaken, this is already law in some other states.

I like that "property of the state" idea.
Are we (the state) going to buy this private property or shall we just seize it "for the good of many".
Why stop at the high water mark. Let's take 10 feet above so we always have a clear path to walk on.
This idea is quite different from the priciples what I fought and served my country to protect buthey,  as I grow older I am more inclined to look to other people to support me.
NavyGuy

ORIGINAL: NavyGuy

ORIGINAL: Rtom45

Maybe its time to pressure our legislators to change the law.  All waterways to the normal high water mark should become the property of the state.  Anglers would have access thru public locations, not thru private property.  Once at the stream you are free to move within the high water mark along the stream.  If I'm not mistaken, this is already law in some other states.

I like that "property of the state" idea.
Are we (the state) going to buy this private property or shall we just seize it "for the good of many".
Why stop at the high water mark. Let's take 10 feet above so we always have a clear path to walk on.
This idea is quite different from the priciples what I fought and served my country to protect buthey,  as I grow older I am more inclined to look to other people to support me.
NavyGuy

 
Navy, first of all thank you for your service.
 
The principles you fought for...were they for everyone?
I don't think anyone is suggesting taking land off of landowners, just having the waters of the Commonwealth be fishable to all, and not just the few who can pay a premium for that right. 

WOW, off the Meds again... LOL