Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting ==

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2011/08/17 22:29:50 (permalink)

Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting ==

Once again I had been asked by the PFSC to get our club's opinion on Sunday Hunting for the upcoming Fall convention of the PFSC ...

Okay ..


Here is what happen at our club tonight on Sunday hunting
we had 17% of the regular members (26 people) present and voting.


The vote on Sundays was unanimous ... all voted NO to ===

...allowing Sunday Hunting (changing the current law)
...allowing Sunday Hunting on gamelands
...transferring the regulatory control to the PGC instead of the legislature


NOT ONE single YES vote ....
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/08/17 22:32:41
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    Outdoor Adventures
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/17 23:58:01 (permalink)
    The Sunday hunting coalition includes the National Shooting Sports Foundation, National Rifle Association, Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation, Archery Trade Association, Boone and Crockett Club, Cabela’s, Delta Waterfowl, Mule Deer Foundation, National Assembly of Sportsmen’s Caucuses, Pheasants Forever, Quail Forever, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Safari Club International, U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance, the Wildlife Management Institute and the Warsaw Sportsman Club in Jefferson Co Pa. Oh wait scratch that last one, 22 people voted aginst it.

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    tull66
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 07:13:18 (permalink)
    ============
     
     
     
     
     
     
    ============================

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
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    dpms
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 07:39:01 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

    The vote on Sundays was unanimous ... all voted NO to ===

    ...allowing Sunday Hunting (changing the current law)
    ...allowing Sunday Hunting on gamelands
    ...transferring the regulatory control to the PGC instead of the legislature


    NOT ONE single YES vote ....

     
    Can you provide a brief breakdown on the demographics of the members that voted, Doc? 
     
    Thanks.

    My rifle is a black rifle
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    dpms
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 07:42:17 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

    The Sunday hunting coalition includes the National Shooting Sports Foundation, National Rifle Association, Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation, Archery Trade Association, Boone and Crockett Club, Cabela’s, Delta Waterfowl, Mule Deer Foundation, National Assembly of Sportsmen’s Caucuses, Pheasants Forever, Quail Forever, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Safari Club International, U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance, the Wildlife Management Institute and the Warsaw Sportsman Club in Jefferson Co Pa. Oh wait scratch that last one, 22 people voted aginst it.



     
    Add to that PFSC, Pa.QDMA, Pa.NWTF, PCF and I believe the UBP who have all come out in support of HB1760 or plan to shortly.  All  Pa. based sportsmens orgs.

    My rifle is a black rifle
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    SilverKype
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 08:13:53 (permalink)
    Doc trout - it's comin' brother. You're gonna see it in your lifetime, even if you still smoke !

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 08:36:53 (permalink)
    Never said it would not happen.. and also have said if and when it does so be it... I just hope it happens when I have given up the sport, if passed and the "negative stuff" DOES HAPPEN





    as for the 26 members Gene asked about here's a rough break-down..

    #1.. remember it was MY sportmen's meeting.. only thing going on was discussions about hunting, fishing etc... no club business stuff.. so the only people there were basically there to see, hear or listen to hunting or fishing stuff I presented that meeting... our SPORTSMEN... not the social members


    4 - ladies
    4 - over 60 men
    3 - men in their 30s
    1 - in his 20s
    14 - men between 40-50

    occupations == 2 farmer, 1 coal miner, 5 self-employer, school worker, 4 glass plant employees,
    5 retirees, auto mechanic , carpenter, hardware worker, and not sure about the rest..

    most common comments from members =
    too much posted ground already - not enough deer now ---concerns about more trespassers and ATVs...


    The vote was of no real surprise our club as always been against Sundays.. BUT.... in the past there were a couple yes votes... they now have changed to NO votes because they feel the deer population needs to grow not be reduced even more...


    most common negative comment ==

    I tried to explain that the PGC may NOIT add any species to hunt on Sunday...

    ANSWER ..."" come on Dave, who are you kidding that's what it is all about, guys who are not shooting deer now or do not have alot of time to hunt deer want more time and the PGC will give it to them if given the chance...

    Maybe this will help too... here;s examples of how our club has felt about others PFSC/PGC issues


    ... Did not, do not like ARs, they want to shoot what ever deer they want to..
    ... Did not like the HR results of fewer deer
    ... In favor of increasing fines for ATV on posted property
    ... Always like the youth opportunity ideas
    ... Hate the idea of Sunday Hunting
    ... Want county treasurers out of the doe tags process
    ... Not big supporters of the global warming stuff
    ... Was glad to see the PFSC drop the NWF



    I am not sure the ladies are hunters, but they enjoy coming to the meeting and 2 of the 4 are over 50.. one, for sure is a hunter...

    Half had made trips to either.. Colorado, Maine, Canada, or Montana for hunting /fishing trips

    only about half are really anglers though..

    I feel a good representation of hunters in this area of Pa...

    OFF TO WORK ====

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    dpms
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 08:52:40 (permalink)
    Thanks, Doc.  Not surprised by the info. 

    My rifle is a black rifle
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    DarDys
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 09:00:00 (permalink)
    "The vote was of no real surprise our club as always been against Sundays.. BUT.... in the past there were a couple yes votes... they now have changed to NO votes because they feel the deer population needs to grow not be reduced even more..."

     
    Yet you are happy about more antlerless licenses in your WMU. 
     
    Do you think that is an action that goes along with "the deer population needs to grow no be reduced more?" 
     
    Are any of those that voted "No" going to buy a bonus antlerless tag if they are available? 
     
    Do they think that will help the population grow? 
     
    Do they realize that the population is controlled by the allocation of antlerless tags? 
     
    Do they realize that with the exception of the number of antlered deer harvested (killed, whatever) on the "extra" day(s) of hunting, that the antlerless allocation can be manipulated so that the same hunter success ratio that is in place today will be in place if Sundays are included so that the same number of deer are killed (harvested, whatever), just over a different span of time (once a tag is filled it is filled and the hunting ends whether that is on a Monday or a Sunday and adding the entire rest of the year will make no difference)?
     
    Thanks for providing the demographics.  I would ask a few more questions though, such as how many harvested a deer last year?  The year before?  How many in the last five, seven, and ten years?  The purpose of this line of questioning is to establish whether or not adding Sundays would be adventageous to them or not.  If they have harvested two deer in the last ten years or have harvested nine out of ten, they could careless about adding days to the hunting season on about the same level as those that don't pay any federal income taxes care if taxes are raised -- it doesn't affect them.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #9
    psu_fish
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 10:27:44 (permalink)
    Doc, how many members are there in total? My rough math says 153 members?

    26/.17 = 153



    17% turnout on a hot button issuse like Sunday hunting is pretty weak
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    wayne c
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 12:23:07 (permalink)
    "The Sunday hunting coalition includes the National Shooting Sports Foundation, National Rifle Association, Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation, Archery Trade Association, Boone and Crockett Club, Cabela’s, Delta Waterfowl, Mule Deer Foundation, National Assembly of Sportsmen’s Caucuses, Pheasants Forever, Quail Forever, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Safari Club International, U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance, the Wildlife Management Institute and the Warsaw Sportsman Club in Jefferson Co Pa. Oh wait scratch that last one, 22 people voted aginst it."


    This is not a decision that should be made by NATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS. This should be up to US the state of Pennsylvania.

    "the Wildlife Management Institute"


    LMAO> No comment!
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    wayne c
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 12:28:03 (permalink)
    "Yet you are happy about more antlerless licenses in your WMU."


    I agree that doesnt make sense. But look at it this way, USP is FOR sunday hunting....and they just got done suing the game commission over TOO FEW DEERand pgc mismanagement... Now all of a sudden they trust them with something that will kill many more deer! Go figure?!?!?!

    "Do they realize that with the exception of the number of antlered deer harvested (killed, whatever) on the "extra" day(s) of hunting, that the antlerless allocation can be manipulated so that the same hunter success ratio that is in place today will be in place if Sundays are included so that the same number of deer are killed (harvested, whatever), just over a different span of time (once a tag is filled it is filled and the hunting ends whether that is on a Monday or a Sunday and adding the entire rest of the year will make no difference)?"


    Yeah, and we all know that is very very likely because pgc just loves making responsible changes to SAVE more deer. lol. Being POSSIBLE and being LIKELY are quite a ways apart.

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    S-10
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 13:02:26 (permalink)
    The stated purpose for all or nearly all the organizations that favor Sunday is given as maintaining or increasing hunter numbers.

    The top two reasons for hunters leaving the sport in the latest hunter survey conducted by the PGC and revealed in the June BOC meeting was #1. Lack of game to hunt. #2. lack of places to hunt.

    The majority of landowners are against hunting and many have said they will post their land if it comes to pass.
    Allowing another day to pressure an already depleted game resource will not increase that resource.

    Given those facts will someone please explain how Sunday hunting is going to do anything but lead to more frustrated hunters dropping out of the sport.
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    Esox_Hunter
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 13:03:30 (permalink)
    This is not a decision that should be made by NATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS. This should be up to US the state of Pennsylvania.


     
    This is not directed at anyone in particular, just a thought regarding this topic.
     
    Why was it ok is for many to compare PA with other states for high interest hunting topics such as AR, HR, recruitment, crossguns, herd size/health, forestry practices, ect. but it is not ok to compare with other states regarding SH?  Is Pa really that different than the 43 other states allowing SH that we can not gain anything from their experiences?    
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    wayne c
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 13:15:43 (permalink)
    "Why was it ok is for many to compare PA with other states for high interest hunting topics such as AR, HR, recruitment, crossguns, herd size/health, forestry practices, ect."



    Why did you quote my statement for this reply?? My statement had nothing at all to do with "comparing other states". Itwas about who should have the say in matters.


    "Is Pa really that different than the 43 other states allowing SH that we can not gain anything from their experiences?"


    Yes. Pa is unique in many ways, and to the extreme. Things that simply cannot be overlooked in any reasonable comparison. We are the ONLY one with a controversial habitat based management, the least trusted management agency with the lowest rate of approcval in the nation, and special interests groups having far more clout than they should have, and an already significantly declining deer herd. Factor those things in during every comparison with every other state, and I have no problem with comparing. Thing is, how do you weigh these issues? For me its really quite simple. You dont throw gas on a fire and expect good things to happen.

    post edited by wayne c - 2011/08/18 13:17:24
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    S-10
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 13:19:30 (permalink)
    Do they realize that with the exception of the number of antlered deer harvested (killed, whatever) on the "extra" day(s) of hunting, that the antlerless allocation can be manipulated so that the same hunter success ratio that is in place today will be in place if Sundays are included so that the same number of deer are killed (harvested, whatever), just over a different span of time (once a tag is filled it is filled and the hunting ends whether that is on a Monday or a Sunday and adding the entire rest of the year will make no difference)?


    Now here is an idea. Lets all vote on Sunday hunting. Then lets first just issue anterless tags to those who voted no on the issue. Those who voted yes can apply for them in the second round if there are any left. That way everyone who wanted the extra Sundays made legal gets their wish but those who voted no don't have to miss out on their chance for a doe tag because the allocations were reduced to allow for the Sundays kill. Of course that assumes the PGC will ever admit we are killing too many.
    post edited by S-10 - 2011/08/18 13:21:36
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    Esox_Hunter
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 13:24:18 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: wayne c

    "Why was it ok is for many to compare PA with other states for high interest hunting topics such as AR, HR, recruitment, crossguns, herd size/health, forestry practices, ect."



    Why did you quote my statement for this reply?? My statement had nothing at all to do with "comparing other states". Itwas about who should have the say in matters.




    You implied that a National Organzation should not have any influence in PA decision making.  Indirectly, I am trying to understand why people feel that way and why we can compare PA to other states for the decision making in other hunting related areas, but not SH. 

    Just expanding on the statement you made and it was not directed towards anyone personally, relax.  
     
    post edited by Esox_Hunter - 2011/08/18 13:27:51
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    wayne c
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 13:35:10 (permalink)
    You implied that a National Organzation should not have any influence in PA decision making.


    Any influence?" ...They are "leading the charge"! lol.

    Indirectly, I am trying to understand why not and why we can compare PA to other states for the decision making in other hunting related areas, but not SH.


    Well, i also addressed that, as a bonus, even though it wasnt directed to "me" specifically.

    "Just expanding on the statement you made and it was not directed towards anyone personally, relax."


    As if there is some reason that is necessary. If i relax any further than i am at this moment, my fingers won't work on the keypad, and im liable to have an involunatary bowel movement. lmao. I simply answered a reply to a quote of my post. I dont mind....really. Nothing wrong with discussing an issue, even a controversial topic. Even if the post containing a quote from my post wasmt directed to me (lol), it was open question for anyone correct? Well im included in "anyone" too.


    post edited by wayne c - 2011/08/18 13:37:39
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    Outdoor Adventures
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 14:17:16 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: dpms

    Thanks, Doc.  Not surprised by the info. 


    Sounds like a brain wash if you ask me. First the club spokesman says there are lots of deer in Pa including 2F but agrees that Sunday will kill more and we don't want that. Sunday hunting will give some the opportunity to get out and hunt and enjoy the sport. If I remember right that was the same thing used for X-box being legal, more opportunity. Wonder how many does got killed because of the use of X-bows ??? Same guys want to denie the family hunter a chance to take his kid hunting deer on Sunday possibly their only day off. Unbelievable !!
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    DarDys
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 14:33:53 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: S-10

    Do they realize that with the exception of the number of antlered deer harvested (killed, whatever) on the "extra" day(s) of hunting, that the antlerless allocation can be manipulated so that the same hunter success ratio that is in place today will be in place if Sundays are included so that the same number of deer are killed (harvested, whatever), just over a different span of time (once a tag is filled it is filled and the hunting ends whether that is on a Monday or a Sunday and adding the entire rest of the year will make no difference)?


    Now here is an idea. Lets all vote on Sunday hunting. Then lets first just issue anterless tags to those who voted no on the issue. Those who voted yes can apply for them in the second round if there are any left. That way everyone who wanted the extra Sundays made legal gets their wish but those who voted no don't have to miss out on their chance for a doe tag because the allocations were reduced to allow for the Sundays kill. Of course that assumes the PGC will ever admit we are killing too many.


    I'll go for that.  As long as there is a rider.  That rider would be that the vast majority, somewhere in the neighborhood of 70% of PA deer hunters, that would be rifle hunters, get to flip flop seaons with the minority number, which would be archery hunters.  Let the majority get first crack at the bucks before 30% of them are harvested (killed, whatever) before they even get a chance to hunt.
     
    Of course, I am just kidding.
    post edited by DarDys - 2011/08/18 14:35:19

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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    S-10
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 14:46:54 (permalink)
    Of course, I am just kidding.


    Of course If you were going to hunt in the early season you would have to have Silverkype show you the proper way to dress for the hunt.
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    DarDys
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 15:05:47 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: S-10

    Of course, I am just kidding.


    Of course If you were going to hunt in the early season you would have to have Silverkype show you the proper way to dress for the hunt.

     
    Correctomundo!

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 15:16:09 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: S-10

    Of course, I am just kidding.


    Of course If you were going to hunt in the early season you would have to have Silverkype show you the proper way to dress for the hunt.


    I would like to hear about that topic ......Skype, what up wit dat ???
    post edited by Outdoor Adventures - 2011/08/18 15:17:40
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    DarDys
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 15:36:40 (permalink)
    It has nothing to do with his fashion sense per se, but here is the decoder ring link to the obscure reference.
     
    http://forums.fishusa.com/Pajama_Cruise_2011/m_413781/tm.htm
     

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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    akitadog
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 16:04:49 (permalink)
    no sunday hunting, stop spotlighting and go to shotgun only. then that will make a difference.
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    DarDys
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 16:23:42 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: akitadog

    no sunday hunting, stop spotlighting and go to shotgun only. then that will make a difference.

     
    Are you willing to purchase about $25,000 worth of my rifles?

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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    S-10
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 16:28:45 (permalink)
    I will--of course for .10 on the dollar since you will have no use for them.
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    Outdoor Adventures
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 16:39:44 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: DarDys

    It has nothing to do with his fashion sense per se, but here is the decoder ring link to the obscure reference.

    http://forums.fishusa.com/Pajama_Cruise_2011/m_413781/tm.htm





    LOL good read !!
    #28
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 16:46:18 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: akitadog

    no sunday hunting, stop spotlighting and go to shotgun only. then that will make a difference.


    You really want to hear a farmer cry don't you ? Heck in many parts deer are shot at night with rifles that suffer from crop damage. If you really want to make a difference put a wildlife agency in charge that truly knows how to manage game instead of money.
    #29
    retired guy
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    RE: Warsaw Sportsmen on Sunday Hunting == 2011/08/18 16:47:22 (permalink)
    Hey Dar- your hypothetical may not be too far off- They flip flopped our rifle and Muzzel seasons here in Ct some time ago and we still wonder why.
    #30
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