I found the link to Staback's explanation of the bill. Forgot where I put it.

http://www.myfoxnepa.com/category/205486/the-great-outdoors

So where is it??

ORIGINAL: wayne c

So where is it??

In the video archives, click on 7/09/11.  It is titled "Sunday hunting resolution"  About 10 minutes in length with Commissioner Delaney expalining how the board would proceed and Staback explaining the wording in the bill.

I stayed away from this being a Ct guy and all but---
  Each and every one of those points Doc quoted while arguing with DPM was right out of the Anti handbook ( if they have one).
    Yep --just keep agreeing with those who say there are dwindling numbers of Hunters and growing numbers of  those 'other' outdoor users and see where it leads ya giving them more and more.
     Giant step in - not the groundwork for increasing Hunting opportunities- but a Giant step in allowing the "others' to eventually put you in a corner..
      Humane Society????   yep, those are the folks I'd be quoting when talking bout Hunting-- You guys lost already if that keeps up. And I aint talking bout Sundays.....
   Keep tellin ya these people are NOT your friends-but too many seem to think 'wellllll this is PA- weeee are different--cant happen herrrre"-dont talk to us cause ya dont live here-- just look around - for your own sake and the sake of Hunting in general
   DPM--dont give up- they need ya over there. Unfortunately many wont get it till they are sitting around talking bout the 'old days'.

RG, your giving the HSUS way too much credit on this issue in Pa. We all know they are anti hunting. We really don't understand why the PGC sometimes gets in bed with them. This issue is just landowners wishes versus some hunters wishes with a bit of non-hunter issues (not necessarly anti)thrown in for good measure. The good old days you speak of were prior to 2001 and had nothing to do with the HSUS or Sunday hunting issue.

"RG, your giving the HSUS way too much credit on this issue in Pa"

Kinda understandable, as Im sure he isnt extremely politically aware of what goes on and what doesnt here, just as I have no clue what goes on in Ct. Im sure he wouldve liked the legislators openly making fun of her at the last sunday hunting hearing. lol.

"If you ( meaning many) were to take yourself out of the issue, as PA hunters not being pleased with the Deer issue, and look at the far bigger picture it might be enlightening.
Being there and being dissatisfied makes it very hard to remove that one difficult issue from the process when looking at the whole thing. Think that in order to see the big picture that might not be a bad idea though."

Actually it makes no sense to me, to even consider ignoring the biggest issue that effects us and our sport today. Why on earth would we ever WANT to look past it as if it doesnt matter!lol.

"'Hunters dwindling and others growing' can really really hurt ya down the road.
Gotta bury some hatchets

Unfortunately its always "the other side" that gets asked to do the hatchet burying. I think i will give the other side that honor here.

and work together on stuff or the 'other side' will get over- Face it-they love WARS. Divided ya fall. Little bit by little bit."

Here is my view on that... We support sunday hunting, which can be a VERY effective tool at adding to the reductions if pgc should so decide... And i have no doubt pgc WILL utilize it. Therefore, the deer issue gets worse than the state it already is, and even more toxic, our numbers drop at a faster pace than they wouldve otherwise.

...Or we dont support sunday hunting and the temporary "divide" among sportsmen goes away until the next time its up for vote, hopefully implemented at some better time, under better conditions in the future.

There will always be some infighting. Had it with crossbows, inline, and more.... You wont stop that period. In fact i think it makes for a good base for management decisions to kick them around from every angle. Im not concerned with sportsmen "rifts"....nothing different than sibling squabbling. The parent may not like it, but its a fact of life.

But the declining deer herd, if permitted to continue is a SERIOUS problem. To us individually, but moreso to the sport overall. A far worse problem then not having sunday hunting. In a perfect world, I would support sunday hunting. But im not gonna support something that causes what i believe to be far more harm than good. Fix the deer nonsense, then bring on sunday and we will have the best scenario. Otherwise, it will never be supported by me.

ORIGINAL: wayne c

 In a perfect world, I would support sunday hunting. But im not gonna support something that causes what i believe to be far more harm than good. Fix the deer nonsense, then bring on sunday and we will have the best scenario. Otherwise, it will never be supported by me.

 
Fair enough, but I wish more that felt the way that you do wouldn't sit back and let true lies and misinformation get a pass because doing so furthers their desired outcome on a particular issue. I don't know if you have or not, but many are doing just that.
 
Though we can have different opinions on Sunday hunting, I truly wish that at least folks can unite to smash the hate campaign that the antis are furthering during this process.

I truly wish that at least folks can unite to smash the hate campaign that the antis are furthering during this process.

I really don't see them furthering any hate campaign. They are just doing what they always do, what we expect them to do, and what they have done for over 50 years. Sarah Speed is paid to do a job just as Alt was paid to do the job he did. I am more concerned about the PGC getting in bed with her on other issues than the fact she is against Sunday hunting. The hunters themselves couldn't agree on the issue long before the HSUS ever got involved.

ORIGINAL: S-10

 They are just doing what they always do, what we expect them to do, and what they have done for over 50 years.

 
You and I know this.  Many hunters do.  Although it is surprising the number of hunters that think HSUS is our local shelters.
 
The problem is many non-hunters that may be neutral do not.  The constant mentioned of stray bullets, fear of being shot, fear of harassment, entitlement to a exclusive day in the field, the danger of sharing the woods with hunters etc...... These are the things that we should all be working to debunk.  Not sitting back and pretending it isn't there becuase it helps to achieve a outcome that some want.

Dpms, as i see it, if those conditions exist...halftruths and mistruths being spread, then its 100% the fault of those that have chosen to try and ramrod this down everyones throats without having or trying to achieve more support.


Where was this effort over 10 years ago when just as many if not more hunters were clamoring for sunday hunting, and we didnt have the issues with pgc and deer as we do currently. Why wasnt the pgc and legislative support there then? Or is it just that back then we werent in phapse 3 part "x" of an obtuse deer management scheme backed by dcnr/governors office and others..., that now needs more ways to kill more deer because they cant get some of the wmus to 2g levels without it and possibly more "tools". They were not willing to take on the fight on behalf of hunters previously, and i have few delusions that they are taking it on for "us" now...

ORIGINAL: wayne c

Dpms, as i see it, if those conditions exist...halftruths and mistruths being spread, then its 100% the fault of those that have chosen to try and ramrod this down everyones throats without having or trying to achieve more support.

 
So because you don't see it as your "fault", you are content to see our sport and its particpants take a public lashing based on mis-information?

     Knew before I started Wayne that some would be unable to take their personal emotions out of play and misinterpret. Strong issues here and perhaps with good reason.
   They always say to take a disinterested third party view of things to make a rational decision.
    It isnt meant as an argument or stone throwing or even a position on your Sunday Hunting or Deer herd conditions. Not involved in that stuff-
  But I AM A HUNTER and what happens in one place can ultimately affect others. Therefore its tough to see one issue have  impact on  others like seems to be happening cause of the WARS thing with you folks.
   Knew before even starting that taking any position would instigate strong statements by folks whos views on WARS are as strong as many here- either good or bad. Unfortunately it is a singular issue with a lot of guys and it dominates their views on all other things.
You know - Hey, how bout those Mets?-- AAAGGGGGRRRRUUUGGGH did ya see the Deer numbers?
  Some ought to re- read Bings posts- they are informative and articulate.

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

And you do not think they are real concerns for folks in the rural areas of Pa...

 
I have never denied those concerns exist.  It is our responsibility to ease those concerns, Doc, based on facts that are readily available.  Hunting is one of the safest outdoor sports that exists both to the participants and bystanders. 
 
I live in the SRA, as you know,  where just about every small woodlot surrounded by housing plans is hunted hard for deer during the special antlerless seasons.  I realize that stray bullets may cause damage or concern. The fact is these incidents are rare. 

"Knew before I started Wayne that some would be unable to take their personal emotions out of play and misinterpret."

If there was any misinterpretation it was due to you not clearly explaining, and still havent unless nothing was misinterpreted in the first place. The only one emotional here is you who seem for some unknown reason to be getting angry?. For me there is absolutely nothing to be mad, tickled pink, or any other emotion over. Very "stoic" discussing facts here. Dont know what ever gave you any other idea.

"They always say to take a disinterested third party view of things to make a rational decision."

Who would "they" be. Sorry, havent heard that one. Especially when the third party is extremely uneducated as to the particulars of the situation such as someone from Connecticut would be! And no....no emotion so dont take the wrong way. I mean that sincerely and in no way maliciously.

" But I AM A HUNTER and what happens in one place can ultimately affect others. Therefore its tough to see one issue have impact on others like seems to be happening cause of the WARS thing with you folks."

Its not just because of some "wars thing" mentality. Its 100% common sense. More time, especially more nowork/nonschool days = more deer killed. You dont need to be a "warrior" or a rocket scientist to figure that out. If you trust that amends would be made to account for the harvest, fine, you are welcome to that opinion. I dont share it. That hasnt been the recent history of, or congruent with the agenda of pgc today. Dont particularly care if you agree or not. Thats my position, and one which you have no retort other than "leave the wars" out of it? lol. Well why dont we just go a step further, leave the landowner issues out, the deer effects out, the religious and all other issues out. Is that reality? What are the odds of that happening? ZILCH. So why try to protray something completely unreasonable and irrational as an appropriate solution?

"Unfortunately it is a singular issue with a lot of guys and it dominates their views on all other things. "

DEER dominates hunting in pennsylvania. Thats the reality of it. You dont have to like it, but i suggest you accept it for what it is. And when something directly effects the deer herd, IT IS AN ISSUE! lol. Not because i say so, because it is.

"You know - Hey, how bout those Mets?-- AAAGGGGGRRRRUUUGGGH did ya see the Deer numbers?"

Gimme a break. Your emotions are making you say foolish things. This conversation is 100% deer related because on the line is more high harvest days being added, and its a 100% legit reason to opposed it. If i jump in on one of your "mets" conversations, please feel free to "let me have it", till then i wont hold my breath, because the mets arent from PA, and that seems to be your focus and usually strangely, in regard to opposing Pa deer statements. lol.

SO now i guess i have no position on sunday hunting, i no longer oppose. A gentleman from Ct says im not allowed to base my sunday hunting position on effects to the deer herd. So there you have it.

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

But Bings (I guess) sees nothing wrong with shooting game that is tied down or released and shot immediately after being released from a cage.. true sportsman there...

so after all the BS he posted about HSUS changing HUNTING laws in Pa that's all he can come up with.. ATTEMPTS... I guess he thinks hunters should go against HSUS and be proud to push to have shooting birds that are tied down or doves shot as they are released from a cage continue to be legal and something for Pa hunters to be proud of ?????




Sorry that sort of thing does not make me proud to be a Pa hunter ...

any more examples there big guy ????


and BTW..

So far, the bill has not made it to the Senate floor for a full vote. The only other time similar legislation moved forward was in 1994, when the House actually approved a pigeon shoot ban 99-93. But the effort failed because a majority of 102 votes was needed for passage.

So you still have not shown us where PETA or the HSUS have change any hunting laws ?????

WHere did I ever say I was for the pigeon shoot ?? Never expressed MY opinion on it.

You ran your mouth and wanted a law that had been changed by HSUS pressure, I gave you one. You actually are not worth the effort. Once you are proven wrong you either hide or tell a different story...

Since you seem to agree with them about the birds I bet you also agree with them about the Pheasants.

Here are their views on Pheasant stocking...



November 16, 2009

NY Pheasant Stocking
Humane Groups Oppose Proposed 10-Year Extension of Cruel, Wasteful Pheasant Program

The Humane Society of the United States

This week, The Humane Society of the United States, Humane Society of New York, New York League of Humane Voters and New York State Humane Association submitted comments to the New York Department of Environmental Conservation opposing the continuation of pheasant stocking. In the wake of Gov. David Paterson's proposal to close the Richard E. Reynolds Game Farm that produces 100,000 pheasants annually, the DEC is proposing a draft plan to extend its wasteful and inhumane pheasant stocking program for the next decade.

The HSUS comments are available here.

In past years, the DEC spent $750,000 annually to release pheasants on public land for shooters. These farm-reared birds have limited survival skills and represent a nonnative species. Studies consistently show that if shooters do not kill the animals immediately, the birds succumb to harsh weather, get eaten by predators or starve.

"These birds are literally sitting ducks for waiting shooters," said The HSUS' New York state director Patrick Kwan. "The DEC should not be in the business of raising animals in incubators to be shot and calling it wildlife management. Traditional hunting demands that animals be given a reasonable chance to escape, not thrown from the back of a truck at an announced time and date."

The draft Ten-Year Management Plan for Ring-Necked Pheasants in New York calls for the annual stocking of 30,000 adults and distribution of 60,000 chicks to clubs in a cooperative rearing program.

One commendable aspect of the proposal calls for the ending of the Young Adult Pheasant Release program. This program included the annual release of 30,000 young birds during the summer. Overwhelmingly, these birds succumbed to predators or the elements and did not even survive to the fall shooting season.

Background:

Ring-necked pheasants are native to Asia and cannot find the habitat in New York to naturalize and reproduce; consequently, the DEC hand-rears birds for shooters. The farm raising process produces tamer birds unable to survive in the wild.
To make sure that shooters, instead of coyotes, kill the exotic birds, the animals are stocked just prior to and throughout hunting season, creating an unethical hunting situation.
Pheasant stocking panders to a shrinking constituency. According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, New York small game hunters declined by 36 percent from 1996 to 2006. According to informal DEC surveys, pheasant hunters number less than 50,000. Wildlife watchers, those who enjoy New York's wildlife by hiking or bird watching, numbered more than 3.5 million in 2006 and continue to increase.
After handing out chicks for rearing and release onto public land, the state does not conduct follow-up inspections of facilities to ensure that animals are treated humanely or that environmental conditions do not lead to massive die-offs.

You decide....



If you beleive these groups have no clout to sway politicions then you are saddly mistaken..There are more bunny huggers every day and the hunters a diminishing.



Although I do share Waynes concern about there being a larger harvest, not sure how much but you never know.
I was afraid of that with the crossbows but it never came to fruition.