HSUS again on Sunday hunting

Yet again, the biggest threat to hunting speading the hate and lies about hunters and our sport.  I will always have a hard time understanding why hunters cannot be united behind HB1760, which strengthens our position which HSUS previously mentioned.

I have always said that as demographics change and the disconnect with the natural world broadens, hunting will be in trouble.  Well, here we have Sarah confirming it.  Politics will be used against us with the increasing leverage that the non-hunting public will have as these demographics change. 

Wake up folks.  Bells and whistles should go off when HSUS is dumping tremendous resources into this fight. It is not about protecting hikers and birdwatchers. 

http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/index.ssf/2011/08/pennsylvania_should_leave_sund.html

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

and lies about hunters and our sport.

You'll have to point out the lies in that article, I did not see any.

If you can't see the lies and misinformation about hunitng in that article doc, no esplaining from me is gonna make them any clearer.  So I am clear on another thing.  Do you agree with what she said in this op-ed?

If you can't see the lies and misinformation about hunting in that article doc, no esplaining from me is gonna make them any clearer. So I am clear on another thing. Do you agree with what she said in this op-ed?

Maybe you should show me the lies ?????


Here's the parts I see as truth and that I agree with, which is most of the article....
--------------------------

The demographics of Pennsylvania’s outdoor users have steadily shifted during the last few decades,
----------------------
According to the latest U.S. Fish and Wildlife survey, the number of hunters is declining Hunters comprise 11 percent of Pennsylvania’s population

------------------------------

Factor in other outdoor fanciers such as hikers, horseback riders, dog walkers and mountain bikers, and it is clear that maintaining one day a week free from hunting is more important now than ever.
----------------------------------

A bill pending in the state Legislature, HB 1760, would upend this tradition and mandate the Pennsylvania Game Commission open Sunday hunting. The idea is shortsighted, selfish and wildly unpopular. Indeed, a Pennsylvania Legislative Budget and Finance Committee survey of hunters found that only half believe that the entire week should belong to them.
I don't agree with the wildy un-popular.. most reports are 50-50 IMHO
---------------------------------

The Humane Society of the United States has more than 650,000 supporters in Pennsylvania who, along with other outdoor enthusiasts, believe that Sunday is a day to enjoy nature without concern about the dangers of guns and arrows.

----------------------

Landowners don’t want yet another day of having to don protective fluorescent orange on their own property so they are not mistaken for game. They don’t want to have their Sundays interrupted by hunters knocking at the door to request access to their land.

----------------------------

Sunday hunting proponents try to prop up their unpopular idea with imaginary projections of economic gain.
------------------------

Wildlife watchers who enjoy Pennsylvania’s outdoors bring $1.4 billion to our state annually. Tourist wildlife watchers exceed hunters in trip-related spending by more than $20 million each year. Why put these dollars at risk?

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but they do spend money too
----------------------------------------

Opening Sunday hunting would rob countless outdoor recreationists of the lone day when they are guaranteed piece of mind in the woods. The additional hunting day also would necessitate expanded enforcement efforts. Pennsylvania Game Commission officers are already stretched thin. In these times of limited government resources, we simply can’t afford to heap more mandates on law enforcement.

----------------------------------

Tranquil Sundays have become our tradition. A majority of Pennsylvanians, urbanites and rural landowners, like it that way. The Legislature needs to quietly lay this bill to rest and get on with the important challenges that face the state.

-------------------------

If you agree with the content of her op-ed, as I said before, the discussion isn't worth the effort.  Sorry.

Sorry, doc. This discussion is beginning to tire me.  As much as you may be disappointed in my answer, I have to begin to weigh where I spend my efforts. 

I posted the op-ed. Take it for what its worth and do what you feel is right.

"I will always have a hard time understanding why hunters cannot be united behind HB1760,"

You arent new to these conversations, and you know as well as anyone that there are real and legit reasons for not doing so.

which strengthens our position which HSUS previously mentioned.

So would knocking the cost of licenses down, pgc bettering relations with hunters, and addressing the deer situation. Why dont we pick one or more of those?

I have always said that as demographics change and the disconnect with the natural world broadens, hunting will be in trouble. Well, here we have Sarah confirming it.

And her words are meaningless. She is simply riding the coat tails of those legitimate parties that also oppose.

" Politics will be used against us with the increasing leverage that the non-hunting public will have as these demographics change."

Bells and whistles should go off when HSUS is dumping tremendous resources into this fight.

So you are just noticing now eh? Maybe the reeds were froze in your whistle for the last ten years?

REAL ISSUES

Sorry, doc. This discussion is beginning to tire me.

Seems you always tire of it when you cannot back up your statements. Seems ol' doc finally put someone over the ol "debate barrel" for a change.

"Have backed them up hundreds of times between here and elsewhere."

Sorry, not familiar with either locale or the successful backing up. Perhaps you could provide a photo-copy, link to, or sworn affidavit from a credible witness? j/k... I didnt mean to imply you NEVER back up ANYTHING.

Is nice to see your whistle is no longer a silent dog whistle though.

You cannot tell hsus what to support, and you shouldnt base your position for or against anything based on what hsus supports. If you do, then yes you have problems. I dont know of any hunter that would do so. But i do know quite a few that rightfully oppose giving the antigame commission another method of wrecking our deer herd even more. IMHO those running the show and their audubon cronies are no better than hsus. They have been more damaging to our sport than hsus have ever been here.

Also, If sarah loves pizza, that doesnt mean i am gonna automatically and irrationally say i hate it.

IF you oppose ANYTHING to do with hunting whatsoever the same ridiculous argument of siding with antis would be just as valid.. How about nighttime June buck only season? Agree with me on it or you are in bed with PETA! How about July spotted fawn only clubbing season for one week? Im sure sarah would be opposed, so you should support this just because...

Anyone that agrees with her has some serious issues being a hunter.
Yo have climbed in bed wih one of the most anti-hunting groups in this country.
Sad day for hunters that there are those among our ranks that share HSUS way of thinking.

I agree with that but don't forget that the PGC's own Legislative Leiaison (sp) took her by the hand as they visited all the politicans when they were trying to get the tougher wildlife laws passed. Seems like even our own PGC will climb in bed with them from time to time.

Your wrong again Doc..Aint that something..

I have made my view quite clear on crossbows, they could have had their own season.
Non of the fears I had thought would happen did (except a bunch of front shoulder shots) and have nothing against their inclusion in archery. But you knew that ..

All ways been for full carry with the proper permit at all times. You must have me mixed up with someone else and are wrong again....Aint that something...

Do you have any clue how many dogs and cats are put down a year by the so called animal protecters??



If you beleive the antis have had no impact on hunting in this state then you have your head up your Azz further than I suspected...


They like tofu at the meetings if it's your turn to bring a dish. They like folks like you....

"14
(b) Regulations.--The commission shall institute Sunday

15
hunting and shall promulgate appropriate regulations under

16
section 2102 (relating to regulations) within one year of the

17
effective date of this section.

DPMS,

It appears that HB 1760, does not truly give the PGC regulatory control over sunday hunting. In fact, as I read it. It requires the PGC to permit sunday hunting, and adjust season lengths, and bag limit accordingly, if needed. I suppose they could place restrictions, such as archery only, or relegate to PGC, and DCNR lands. BUt that would be unlikey.

This is one issue that should be left to a consensus of the hunters. While seasons & bag limits should be determined in the interest of population & habitat health, not the wishes of the hunter. And saftey regs in the interest of the best praticle saftey practices. This really breaks down to cost/benefit for hunters. There will no doubt be costs, such as property closures, and even greater anti-hunting sentiment, and opposition from those who were previously only mildly opposed, or indifferent. Also the possibilty of shorter seasons, and lower daily bag limits ( we're not just talking deer here ). The hunters should be allowed to determine wether the benefits outweigh the costs. To them.

Live Bird Shoot Ban

Ever since the spotlight was shone on the Hegins pigeon shoot in Schuylkill County in the 1980s, there has been pressure to ban live bird shoots in Pennsylvania. After years of disruptive protests, the Hegins community dropped the Hegins shoot after a 1999 state Supreme Court decision that cruelty officers could bring charges against participants.

Another visible flashpoint occurred here in Lancaster County in 2007 when the Elstonville Sportsmen's Association was fined for animal cruelty after holding a live turkey shoot in which tethered turkeys were shot at close range with bows and arrows.

For years, animal-welfare groups have attempted to get the legislature to ban live bird shoots. According to The Humane Society of the United States, Pennsylvania is the last state to not outright ban such a cruel practice.

Nonsense, says the National Rifle Association, which has effectively shut down every bill since 1987 but one by portraying such legislation as anti-hunting and anti-gun rights. There are 35 states that allow the long tradition of live bird shoots, according to the NRA.

This year, despite the NRA's call to arms, a bill that would ban the use of live animals or birds in trap or block shoots is not just dying a slow death in committee. On April 12, the state Senate Judiciary Committee voted 11 to 3 in favor of the bill. Supporters of the legislation include the Pennsylvania Council of Churches, the Pennsylvania Veterinary Medical Association and the Pennsylvania Bar Association.

So far, the bill has not made it to the Senate floor for a full vote. The only other time similar legislation moved forward was in 1994, when the House actually approved a pigeon shoot ban 99-93. But the effort failed because a majority of 102 votes was needed for passage.

Naturally, the NRA and other groups are working overtime to ground the current bill also. In a letter to Judiciary Committee members who dared support the bill, the NRA warned that opposition to live pigeon shoots comes not from local communities but from ''extremist'' groups ''from the outside.'' The NRA repeated its mantra that banning pigeon shoots would open the door for anti-hunting groups to chip away at hunting in all its forms.

The strategy may be working. Even though the bill specifically restricts bans to block and trap shoots, Cutler worries a ban could lead to more sweeping challenges to hunting.

''I personally don't do it and to me it's not sporting,'' Cutler says of live bird shoots. ''But my main concern is once those kinds of prohibitions are put in place, where will they stop? It's not a far leap to be unable to shoot pigeons to being unable to shoot farm-raised birds like pheasants and chukars.''

And Mohr claims one amendment being proposed to the legislation could do away with the Game Commission's right to stock pheasants or release any fowl for shooting purposes.

Adds PFSC's Kraybill, ''We are not going to approve anything that will restrict sportsmen's rights.''

Mohr's Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania recently released a lengthy document outlining over 30 contagious diseases that pigeons can carry. Pigeon poop also hastens the deterioration of steel bridges, the paper says.

Pro ban groups counter that any number of animals potentially can carry the diseases. Moreover, they claim there is more of a chance of being struck by lightning than picking up a serious disease from pigeons.

As an interesting sidelight, the value of pigeons has entered the debate.



I think their mission statement says it all...

Wild animalsHSUS has taken a strong stand against the private ownership of exotic animals as pets.[83] HSUS opposes the hunting of any living creature for fun, trophy, or sport. HSUS only supports killing animals for population control when carried out by officials and does not oppose hunting for food or subsistence needs.[84]

Spoon,
 
I found the link to Staback's explanation of the bill.  Forgot where I put it.
 
http://www.myfoxnepa.com/category/205486/the-great-outdoors

"While seasons & bag limits should be determined in the interest of population & habitat health, not the wishes of the hunter."

That is not true if neither are an issue. After those considerations, hunter satisfaction DOES come into play in any reasonable rational states management schemes.

But HERE, when we throw in extremist special interests calling the shots, a commission that very few if anyone trusts... and the lines are further blurred as to what is and isnt appropriate when considering seasons and bag limits...or more time. Which can also be seen as another "management tool" like bag limits, that can be either used or abused.