Dr. Trout
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Sunday Hunting Conversation =
Had the opportunity to talk to Senator Scarnati today for about 15 minutes. I asked how the the Sunday hunting thing was coming along and again about his position on the subject.. His very first response was to point out that there is no bill in the Senate and he would/could do nothing until a bill is there and he reads it for the small details... He went on to say that the majority of the folks he talks to are against it... also his E-mails are running 3 to 1 against Sunday Hunting. He stated about local property owners telling him they will close their land (open to hunting now) completely if Sunday hunting becomes law.. I asked if he could separate hunters from the groups he is hearing from and if so how did the "hunters" feel.. He stated that is running about 50/50 among deer hunters. He wanted to stress to me that alot would depend on the actual bill IF and when it got to the Senate. He expects alot of amendments to be added to it, so that alone may help pass or defeat the bill in the Senate.. I expressed my thoughts and he thanked me for them and I then thanked him for his supportive vote for the "castle doctrine" which is now the law for Pa. I came away from the conversation with the belief he is still not going to vote for Sunday hunting and that he does not look for ANY action in the near future...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/07/23 17:10:27
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mr.crappie
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 17:26:34
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You may want to tell him that if he really believes that many hunters are against Sun. hunting that there really should be little problems with the few of us that want to hunt on Sunday.Also if the farmers are haveing problems with too much deer damage it would be kind of stupid to close hunting & suffer more deer damage wouldn't it? And at the very least we should be able to hunt on game lands that we pay for & also National forests & parks that we all pay for. Maybe we could find a way to stop farm subsidies to people that close thier land. This comes out of our pockets also.I always try to buy produce from farmers that keep thier land open,but you can be sure that will stop for the ones that do.Like I have said before ,if you don't want to hunt on Sun. DON'T,but don't try to stop those of us that do. sam
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tull66 
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 18:19:44
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ORIGINAL: mr.crappie
Like I have said before ,if you don't want to hunt on Sun. DON'T,but don't try to stop those of us that do. That's just common sense....so it'll never fly. I wonder how long ago it was that common sense was common?
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 18:40:40
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
He stated about local property owners telling him they will close their land (open to hunting now) completely if Sunday hunting becomes law.. Curious if you asked for clarification on that? Sunday hunting is already legal for some species. Closing land is a big threat. Woud it be closed just if this bill passes that doesn't actually add any Sundays? Would it be closed only if deer hunting was expanded to Sundays? What if Sundays were only added to small game or youth gobbler? These are the questions that we need to ask of landowners when the discussion comes up. The Senator would do well to ask the same questions as this issue is complex. Having a true discussion of this issue is critical to where this goes for both sides. Specifics, and not generalizations need to be discussed. This goes for those on both sides. He expects alot of amendments to be added to it, so that alone may help pass or defeat the bill in the Senate.. As do I. Best guess is this will move out of game and fish and see several ammendments. I came away from the conversation with the belief he is still not going to vote for Sunday hunting and that he does not look for ANY action in the near future... This bill is not a vote for Sunday hunting. It is about transferring regulatory control of Sunday hunting to the agency that has that responsibility. The actual vote for the expansion of Sunday hunting would be at BOC meetings after proposals are made. At that point, input from all concerned parties would continue to be wieghed. In my discussions I am seeing some movement with hunters beginning to see the seperation of the two issues. I have talked to many that are against the expansion of Sunday hunting but now do support the legislature transferring regulatory control to the agency that is responsible for it. There are also those that will not support anything with the word Sunday in it, including this legislation. And there are those that feel the PGC should is not even capable of managing wildlife. With these two groups, not much will matter or change their opinions. I, for one, am continuing my attempts to explain the issue in detail to those that want to listen. Also, the state's sporting orgs have begun to submit their letters of support to members of the House Game and Fish, along with all of the representatives.
post edited by dpms - 2011/07/23 20:29:22
My rifle is a black rifle
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retired guy
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 20:25:20
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As an elected official with NO boat in the water on this issue cause I live someplace else I would like to make an observation on your Sunday Issue. The Senator was responding to calls and messages he is already receiving on an issue NOT before him or his peers. Some big issues come and go without ANY public input like this at all. As one Senator friend said its a big deal to get 2 or 3 calls on most legislation. Sometimes I get NONE even when its a spending issue worth millions. So who is calling the Senator and his peers? Clearly folks with personal concerns Antis, landowners, and clearly not enough sportsmen. Tull said it best in my opinion.. All sportsmen should support any bill expanding sports availability-or in this case the agency controlling that with an obvious intent down the road. Believe me that ALL those against hunting will be on the phones and computers in this issue and YOU GUYS better get on board, early too, or it will never get to a vote. BETCHA if that Senator had his phone ringing off the hook in support he would see to it that a bill came up- all bout votes. With 50/50 input he clearly doesn't want to have to decide which way to go and does NOT want to have to make that decision. Cant say as I blame him either. You folks either want it or not. Sometimes the one who has to step up to the plate is YOU.
post edited by retired guy - 2011/07/23 20:29:46
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 20:31:23
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ORIGINAL: retired guy
All sportsmen should support any bill expanding sports availability-or in this case the agency controlling that with an obvious intent down the road.
Yep. This is a chance to remove polticians from the wildlife management business. A business that game agencies are responsible for.
My rifle is a black rifle
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wayne c
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 21:18:06
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BULL! This is just giving more power to the politicians. Those that pull pgcs puppet strings where deer management is concerned. Nothing more. Nothing less. One more way for pgc to keep the "plan" of deer decimation rolling full steam ahead.
You want politics taken out? I have yet to see you make 50 posts a month about anything that would legitimately do so as you do with this sunday hunting. I have yet to see you supporting changing the boc selection process or anything else that would be meaningful.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 21:39:55
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
I have yet to see you supporting anything else that would be meaningful.
Really?
My rifle is a black rifle
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wayne c
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 22:00:22
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You better recheck you quote, that isnt what i said.
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S-10
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 22:00:46
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With 50/50 input he clearly doesn't want to have to decide which way to go and does NOT want to have to make that decision. Cant say as I blame him either. You folks either want it or not.
Sometimes the one who has to step up to the plate is YOU. The situation is that the 50% of hunters bring against Sunday hunting is a real number and when you add that to the 80% of landowners who are also against it one has to wonder why it is even an isue. The regulatory control discussion is just a smokescreen. It was never an issue in the past and is only a issue now because there seens to be a majority of BOC members who will vote for Sunday hunting given the chance. As for taking politics out of hunting this issue would do little to effect the politics that are involved now and always have been. Hell, the PGC has been in bed with the HSUS when it served their purpose.
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wayne c
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 22:04:10
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I said: You want politics taken out? I have yet to see you make 50 posts a month about anything that would legitimately do so as you do with this sunday hunting. I have yet to see you supporting changing the boc selection process or anything else that would be meaningful. Please dpms, if this is an incorrect statement, feel free to refresh my memory. Perhaps im mistaken? 
post edited by wayne c - 2011/07/23 22:05:02
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 22:09:47
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
or anything else that would be meaningful.
I took that as it was said. If your intention was in reference to removing politics from the BOC selection process, then no I have not lobbied for changes in that area.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 22:21:09
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ORIGINAL: S-10
The regulatory control discussion is just a smokescreen. It was never an issue in the past and is only a issue now because there seens to be a majority of BOC members who will vote for Sunday hunting given the chance. Not sure I would say it has never been an issue. It has just seen enough of a push recently to bring it to more folks attention, IMO. Not sure how board members of years past feel about it. My dealings have been in the recent past, for the most part. As for taking politics out of hunting this issue would do little to effect the politics that are involved now and always have been. Hell, the PGC has been in bed with the HSUS when it served their purpose.
While political games are played in this state with wildlife management, unfortunately, actually having politicians telling us what we can hunt is the current status in regards to Sundays. That is as political as it gets. And yes, the PGC has made some poor decisions with who they share information with. HSUS is active here within this Sunday hunting debate. I hope that those that support hunting and hunters, but not this bill, distance themselves from them.
My rifle is a black rifle
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wayne c
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 22:25:20
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" If your intention was in reference to removing politics from the BOC selection process, then no I have not lobbied for changes in that area."
I mentioned boc selection, but didnt necessary mean limited to that, but anything that would similarly take "politics" out of management.
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wayne c
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 22:31:53
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"That is as political as it gets." Having nearly a million doe tags and ever expanding opportunities because that is what dcnr wants and the gov'ner & other powers put the appropriate framework of people into place to achieve the goals of fewer and fewer deer... Is as political as it gets. Whether you support sunday hunting which will kill more deer... Or whether you oppose it and the "say" remains technically with legislators you are making a decision deeply rooted in politics. You are not washing your hands of any politics by making either choice. You are simply trading one set for another imho.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 22:32:03
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What the senator told me was landowners (including forestry types) will close their lands completely as soon as they are told by ANYONE that folks can legally hunt there on Sundays .. I'm not sure what part of closing their land to hunting (if Sunday hunting is allowed) folks don't understand... the "smoke screen" being presented is this bull about Sunday hunting is already permitted and the regualtor control bull.... it's about being able to hunt on Sunday... period... even the senator agress with that and feels it's deer hunters (naturally) that are the ones wanting Sunday hunting.... the truth is there are a few species that an exception has been made for hunting them.. but if anyone checks the laws... Sunday hunting is still against the law in Pa. And changing that is what landowners, farmers, etc are against.. If that law ever changes that's when the lands may be closed to hunting... I think the main problem is the "city folks" are the ones pushing for it and the "country" folks are the ones against it .... and that appears to be the way the legislators are "divided" also... not sure what politicians dpms is talking to but the "country" ones I talk to are all going with their constituents and not favoring any changes to the Sunday law.... so folks can continue to support what ever side they want... and that's not a bad thing... because in the end the elected officals are going to do what will keep them in office with their "home folks".... and the ones around here appear to be "NO" votes, so I'm happy with that....
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/07/23 22:45:13
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 22:48:37
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
the truth is there are a few species that an exception has been made for hunting them.. but if anyone checks the laws... Sunday hunting is still against the law in Pa. And changing that is what landowners, farmers, etc are against..
So, your feeling is if HB1760 passes, these lands will close completely to hunting despite the fact that no Sundays were added to any seasons?
post edited by dpms - 2011/07/23 22:51:37
My rifle is a black rifle
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/23 22:51:55
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Whether you support sunday hunting which will kill more deer... That was also touched on a little in my conversation. The senator remarked about the complaints he gets from hunters about the reduced deer population and lack of small game in some of his areas and even admited he is not in 100% support of some of the PGC programs... however he did question why some hunters are then wanting Sunday hunting to be able to harvest more game and knowing that allowing Sunday hunting will lead to that...
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 11:24:24
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Bings posted this in the gas well thread, I replied there but wanted to do it here too .... And yet those are the same people that you want in control of the Sunday hunting... HMMMMMMMMMM....
The folks in control SHOULD be held responsible to those they serve... year after year, month after month, day after day, some of you are on here beeching the PGC does not listen to the hunters who bought the land and are owed plenty of game to hunt. You beech about the deer plan, beech about the laws, beech about them not knowing what they are doing.. NOW you all have jumped on the "thumbs up PGC" ... we want you running the hunting season, allocation etc, and now adding another day to kill more deer, rabbits, etc, etc... how can you sit on here and complain about the deer plan the PGC is running and want to give them more days to kill all the deer off for the tree-huggers etc... give them (the PGC) even more power (another day to kill) and the hunters (who you say) they do not listen to now will have even less say... If the politicians retain control of Sundays at least some game will be saved... because The PGC can not change it without their approval and folks that do not like their decisions have a say at the ballot box.... I just LOVE how all of a sudden you anti PGC folks want and trust the PGC with such a big thing now... welcome aboard the PGC supporters club .. I knew you would join me eventually 
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 11:38:08
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So, your feeling is if HB1760 passes, these lands will close completely to hunting despite the fact that no Sundays were added to any seasons?
Yes, I believe the landowners that have told me game populations are too small now and want nothing to do with more harvest and #1 want the day of rest for all... and that is what both the Republican and Democratic politicians are telling me they are hearing from a majority in THIS AREA .. .. change the law and the land gets closed... PERIOD.... they (landowners and politicians) all realize that changing the law will mean more hunting days in the future.. they know that is what some hunters want now... and even BOC members are saying how the added days will allow youth to huntmore days thus kill more game which is currently at the lowest density in a century... I get critised often for having my head in the sand.. but I must say.. heads must be BURIED in it if anyone things changing the law will not mean added Sundays to kill more game... that's just silly to even think... I hear those wanting it talk about the threats that were put forth in other states about closing land and how it was not as bad as they feared.. NOTE .... land was lost but that is not often mentioned... That does NOT tell me Pa landowners will follow those others states .. this is Pa == you know == the guys with the "Guns and Bibles" .... is it worth the risk to lose your favorite property so others can kill more.??? Stop for a minute and think == what if the land does get closed === then what.. it's something that can not be reversed....
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bingsbaits
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 12:25:17
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Who even said they were adding deer season. Might happen might not.. Just a scare tactic for now. Trying to get the cart before the horse here aren't we ?? I would like reugulatory control of all hunting given to our game agency. No matter how bad their track record might be...  Get tired of your garbage that anyone that disagrees with a PGC policy or questions the ambiguity of a law is labeled a PGC hater, nit-picker, and a half dozen other insults. He11 I like the PGC, they provide a great hunting oppotunity for me and my family. But I'm still allowd to question their policies and laws.. Not a sheep and I do not drink the Koolaid....
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 13:21:09
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Not a sheep and I do not drink the Koolaid Nor do I, it's we just dis-agree on some of the PGC policies. There are several I dis-agree with but they lead to little conversations because many do not care about those policies.. it's deer that gets all the attention... I do not like the WMUs for example, too big, but a topic on that lasts about three posts I do not like being able to hunt bucks during the rut, but that too goes no where... Archery season is too long.. no where PGC meetings are always held in Harrisburg, they should be moved around so more can attend every once in awhile... My problem is I like the deer program and others here don't.. I am not going to change they minds nor them mine.. so the debates continue... I'm a sheep, butt kisser , PGC tatoo carrier, kool-aid drinker, in-mature, etc and thus the other side is ""PGC haters, nit-pickers, and a half dozen other insults.""
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wayne c
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 16:04:44
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The last thing needed imho is the current crew at pgc having more power over the deer situation and another tool to kill more. In fact, not only do they not need MORE responsibility, some of them should have none at all....As some commissioners legislators and hunters believe, what they need is to be fired. Like you said doc, they should be held accountable right? I have no doubt deer season would be included. Most hunt DEER. Most that want it want it because of DEER. And pgc certainly doesnt turn up their nose at more "tools" to take care of more deer. I also am not a pgc "hater". There are severe well documented problems at the agency, and its been a chronic situation unfortunately. Id like nothing more than to see them become a prohunting hunter friendly agency once again, one that we could be proud of instead of ashamed that our management is the joke of the nation. Implementing sunday hunting without addressing the bigger problems that exist only magnify the problems and is putting the cart before the horse. It seems i have a post missing here, can't imagine why, it wasnt against any board rules what was stated, and can only guess it was removed simply to pacify some baby-fied whiner. Dont know who tht may be, and no jab at anyone in particular, but if the shoe fits, i guess they know who they are.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/07/24 16:14:07
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wayne c
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 16:16:54
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it's deer that gets all the attention... Perhaps its because its the #1 game animal in popularity in Pa by FAR? Or perhaps because it is the worse managed species? Id imagine alot of both?
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tull66
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 18:06:27
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
What the senator told me was landowners (including forestry types) will close their lands completely as soon as they are told by ANYONE that folks can legally hunt there on Sundays .. I'm not sure what part of closing their land to hunting (if Sunday hunting is allowed) folks don't understand... Doc, I see a definite pattern to almost all of your posts(and mine!). I love and fight for my freedoms and always question authority, you are the exact opposite. You accept lousy decisions made on your behalf and don't mind crawling into bed with authorities. Does your Senator have a crystal ball to be able to make that statement or did you embellish it? I see no other alternative. If I was speaking with the Senator, I'd have to call him out when he said "will close", "completely", "as soon as they are told", "ANYONE", etc. So, I'm calling you out...was it a crystal ball or a lie? the "smoke screen" being presented is this bull about Sunday hunting is already permitted and the regualtor control bull.... it's about being able to hunt on Sunday... period... even the senator agress with that and feels it's deer hunters (naturally) that are the ones wanting Sunday hunting.... Them da*n deer hunters! How dare they want ONE Sunday added to deer season! Thank God for the crystal ball Senator! the truth is there are a few species that an exception has been made for hunting them.. but if anyone checks the laws... Sunday hunting is still against the law in Pa. The truth is, you just contradicted yourself in one (poorly constructed) sentence! The truth is, I hunt nearly every Sunday from October through the end of March on mostly private land and have NEVER been denied permission to hunt on Sunday! I think the main problem is the "city folks" are the ones pushing for it and the "country" folks are the ones against it .... and that appears to be the way the legislators are "divided" also... Did this come to you in a dream, the Senators crystal ball, or are you just making it up? I know, it's your opinion and that's fine. IMO, "country folks" tend to lean towards NOT having the gov't tell them what day of the week to do something(other than trash pick-up).
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
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tull66
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 18:17:07
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
Whether you support sunday hunting which will kill more deer...
That was also touched on a little in my conversation. The senator remarked about the complaints he gets from hunters about the reduced deer population and lack of small game in some of his areas and even admited he is not in 100% support of some of the PGC programs...
however he did question why some hunters are then wanting Sunday hunting to be able to harvest more game and knowing that allowing Sunday hunting will lead to that...
Weird how everything in your 15 minutes with the CBS fits perfectly with your agenda. Even weirder is his misguided question.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
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HereLilFishy
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 20:48:04
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People need to just hang signs saying POSTED only on sundays open for hunting monday thru saturday if they dont want you there on sundays.
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tull66
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 20:51:05
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Another proponent of common sense.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 21:25:30
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People need to just hang signs saying POSTED only on sundays open for hunting monday thru saturday if they dont want you there on sundays.
I just posted an article where that subject is covered... it would be near impossible to enforce.. Remember Pa has almost no trespassing enforcement now let alone adding Sundays... the PGC sure does not have it on their MUST DO LIST... in fact can't enforce it unless some other hunting code is being broken ...ask most property owners if they think posting NO SUNDAY HUNTING would stop anyone if it becomes legal ... ... That's simple a 'pipe dream" Ohio has one of the strictest trespassing enforcement codes in the nation.. probably why Sunday hunting is being accepted by property owners there now...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/07/24 21:30:11
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tull66
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RE: Sunday Hunting Conversation =
2011/07/24 22:26:47
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You posted an op/ed piece. How about I write one for you to post?
Better yet, answer the crystal ball vs lying question.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
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