8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90 
bingsbaits
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 5050
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 12:30:48
(permalink)
Many things in this country I disagree with---Does that make me an anti-American ?? Many things our government does I disagree with-- Does that make me anti-government ?? Get off your high horse you said in your own words you were going to join the ranks of the anti-PGC guys if you didn't get to use your crossbow. Kinda selfish isn't it...  
post edited by bingsbaits - 2011/07/24 12:31:21
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
|
wayne c
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3473
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 12:48:56
(permalink)
Doc, i understand full well why some do not support pgcs deer reduction yet do support sunday hunting. When it comes to the game management issue of overharvest alone, we SHOULD be able to have sunday hunting, the excuse of too many deer being killed should not exist, and environmental extremists shouldnt be dictating at pgc. Some want both proper managment and Sunday hunting. But since we arent getting proper management, might as well at least have the added day to spend afield. My opinion differs, i think supporting sundays before anything meaningful is done to address the failing plan etc. is putting the cart before the horse, but have no problem with opinions of others, especially if they can still keep other things in proper persepective. I dont think most will suddenly support the failing deer plan if sunday hunting is implemented, in fact its effects will most likely strengthen their resolve, and in the long run even fewer will support it. And Sunday or no sunday, my position on the excessive unnecessary reductions that is occurring ALREADY isnt gonna change.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/07/24 12:51:19
|
Dr. Trout
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4417
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2002/03/03 03:12:33
- Location: Jefferson County (2F)
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 13:31:42
(permalink)
I dont think most will suddenly support the failing deer plan if sunday hunting is implemented, in fact its effects will most likely strengthen their resolve, and in the long run even fewer will support it. And Sunday or no sunday, my position on the excessive unnecessary reductions that is occurring ALREADY isnt gonna change In my opinion what will happen is many of the guys that are not getting a deer harvest now, with added days down the road will be and ARE excited about that prospect ... as long as they do not lose the permission to hunt where they hunt and they "get my deer" they will be happy.. what both sides of this deer wars has to keep in mine is that in my opinion the majority of Pa deer hunters only care about one thing === getting their deer.. how many there are is something they could care less about as long as they get theirs.... they could care less how the deer are managed.. again.. as long as they get theirs.... that's where much of the support for the current push for Sunday hunting is coming from .. guys are just looking at the added day to "get their harvest" ...
|
Dr. Trout
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4417
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2002/03/03 03:12:33
- Location: Jefferson County (2F)
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 13:36:19
(permalink)
Get off your high horse you said in your own words you were going to join the ranks of the anti-PGC guys if you didn't get to use your crossbow. Kinda selfish isn't it No high horse here...  I already have anti-PGC positions on many topics.... no crossbows in archery would have just been added to the list... Guys wanting more days to kill game is sort of selfish in my book... 6 days ain't enough we want 7 ... it's like they think they are more important than those that want to use forested lands on Sunday for hobbies and recreational activities .. other than hunting... what's that if not selfish....... 
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/07/24 13:37:39
|
wayne c
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3473
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 13:37:53
(permalink)
In my opinion what will happen is many of the guys that are not getting a deer harvest now, with added days down the road will be and ARE excited about that prospect ... as long as they do not lose the permission to hunt where they hunt and they "get my deer" they will be happy.. Short term initially, the harvest would increase somewhat but would go straight back down thereafter, due to the smaller herd than what you started with. Adding opportunity of more nonwork/nonschool days to the season would increase harvest alright, But all that does thereafter is reduce the herd further, and the harvest drops as a result.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/07/24 13:39:10
|
Dr. Trout
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4417
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2002/03/03 03:12:33
- Location: Jefferson County (2F)
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 13:43:58
(permalink)
Most Guys DON"T care .. they want their deer NOW .... I don't know who you talk too, but that's what I hear all the time.... not necessarily on message boards.. I'm talking the club, in the field, customers, friends, campers, it's what they have now.. instant gratification and worry about the future later... kind of becoming the American way thinking... go ahead increase the debt .. the credit card amounts .. we'll worry about it later...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/07/24 13:44:42
|
spoonchucker
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 8561
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 15:54:39
(permalink)
Wayne, My response had nothing to do with where the drilling/lease money will go. It refers to where the campaign money already has gone. You don't think a group of legislators, that are promoting drilling in the state of Pennsylvania. Might be just a little overly optimistic about it's potential, or exagerate that potential just a little bit?
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
|
spoonchucker
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 8561
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 16:19:25
(permalink)
"with pgc already raking in more funding than any other wildlife management agency in the nation Im aware of.."
You keep making this statement, but what is your source, and how is it quantified? With the majority of states having both fish & game agencies combined, nd in many, if not most cases the two iontegrated into the parks/environmental agency. It's nearly impossible to to make an apples to apples comparison. What are the funding VS costs reponsiblity levels for each division?
Let's say the PF&BC & the PGC where placed under the DCNR tomorrow. The game division funding is cut to 30% of the current PGC funding. That would be a pretty dramatic decrease, if their cost liabilities remained the same. BUT If LE costs, vehicle purchase & maintenance, land/building acquisition & maintenance all came out of the general DCNR budget. And only stocking programs, and select biology & research positions were paid for directly out of Game division funding. Then the Game division might actually be better funded, even with the decrease.
There are alot of factors that must be considered in making a statement such as yours.
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
|
wayne c
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3473
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 16:22:59
(permalink)
Most Guys DON"T care .. they want their deer NOW ....
I don't know who you talk too, but that's what I hear all the time.... not necessarily on message boards..
I'm talking the club, in the field, customers, friends, campers,
it's what they have now.. instant gratification and worry about the future later... kind of becoming the American way thinking...
go ahead increase the debt .. the credit card amounts .. we'll worry about it later... Yep. What would you expect. Thats us evil hunters. Sure wish some environmentalist folks would come along and save us from ourselves.   lol.
|
wayne c
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3473
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 16:28:08
(permalink)
You don't think a group of legislators, that are promoting drilling in the state of Pennsylvania. Might be just a little overly optimistic about it's potential, or exagerate that potential just a little bit? Ummm. No. Why on earth would they do that? Especially simply in regard to gamelands. And especially since the study was done by Penn State who has no agenda in this. I see a very detailed study that did exactly as was intended. Look into the potential of the resource. In fact judging by the analysis of the findings, it could just as easily be conservative end.
|
spoonchucker
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 8561
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 16:35:22
(permalink)
"Ummm. No. Why on earth would they do that?"
Ummmm, To garner support from the public, and fellow legislators for increased drilling. Do follow politics at all?
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
|
wayne c
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3473
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 16:49:06
(permalink)
"You keep making this statement, but what is your source," I have looked into some other states through the last few years and every one i have seen is lower than pgc fundingwise. Takes some digging but you can come up with some of the states balance sheets etc. just the same as we can with pgc. "With the majority of states having both fish & game agencies combined, nd in many, if not most cases the two iontegrated into the parks/environmental agency. It's nearly impossible to to make an apples to apples comparison. What are the funding VS costs reponsiblity levels for each division? " First i dont particularly care what their costs are. If there are excessive costs with the current system and that much cash is being pizzed away compared to other systems, then its time to scrap and start over. I Dont know if it is the case for every state, but every one i have looked into that has combined fish and game is lower funded than pgcs wildlife alone total. Many states management are general funded. It also doesnt matter if money comes from the general fund in a state or hunter and other dollars. Total funding is total funding regardless of source. Though i agree it is hard to compare SOME states, like Texas where the agency assumes fish/boat + wildlife+ many duties our dcnr would have. That plus being such a huge state to top it off = need for more funding. But when we compare a state like Virginia that manages fish both fresh and saltwater & wildlife and has budget lower than what ours is for just wildlife... Something is amiss. I have no problem with an agency being well funded...or even the best funded in the nation if that is indeed the case. But they had better have a dang good reason for needing MORE and also i would expect the management and or services to fit the cost . With rock bottom credibility and nation low approval, thats about as far from the case as it gets. Legislators actually snicker at pgc when they mention fee increase. And with good reason. They definately shouldnt NEED one, and the dont deserve one either.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/07/24 17:34:59
|
wayne c
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3473
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 16:59:47
(permalink)
Ummmm, To garner support from the public, and fellow legislators for increased drilling. Do follow politics at all? Oh, i see. So this was just a PR stunt. lol. So just general discussion of the infamous MARCELLUS BOOM was not enough. They had to do an obscure study by penn state...focused on our gamelands to show how great things were for gas extraction.... Even though the report wasnt highly publicized or anything. lol How many individuals or even legislators that are not directly in oversight of pgc or pgc financial dealings etc. have even read the report? What percentage of our commomwealth would you guess even knows that the report exists?  They didnt limit the big talk to all the dcnr holdings and all the private landowners who were making bundles and moving much faster than pgc... No, they chose to highlight our gamelands. On a serious note, since you are so politically aware and all...Im sure you know financial oversight is one of the duties of the legislative budget and finance committee, there was nothing noteworthy about them simply doing their jobs as was intended when the system of check and balance was set up. There was alot of ongoing talk about pgcs potential windfall by individuals, organizations and other legislators.... it had been the topic of much discussion and controversy. It was also only to be expected. There was no chance period that such a potential known windfall would not be looked into, as it was a matter of transparency and public and legislative trust.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/07/24 17:13:19
|
tull66 
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 1049
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2010/07/15 07:43:43
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 17:21:09
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
how can you sit on here and complain about the deer plan the PGC is running and want to give them more days to kill all the deer off for the tree-huggers etc... give them (the PGC) even more power (another day to kill) and the hunters (who you say) they do not listen to now will have even less say... Doc, Surely even you know deer populations are controlled by the quantity of doe tags sold. What difference would the day of a kill make? 43 freedom loving states can't be wrong.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
|
tull66
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 1049
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2010/07/15 07:43:43
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 17:24:55
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
what both sides of this deer wars has to keep in mine is that in my opinion... Dat right der is priceless!
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
|
tull66
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 1049
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2010/07/15 07:43:43
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 17:29:40
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
Guys wanting more days to kill game is sort of selfish in my book... 6 days ain't enough we want 7 ...
Being against others hunting a day you choose not to is what is selfish. Doc it's not about filling tags, it's about having the freedom to hunt any day you wish.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
|
wayne c
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3473
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 17:48:32
(permalink)
It is the combination of season structure and number of tags that determine harvest level. Pgc chooses to keep things fairly stable as to season structure...they wouldnt want to have to change it every year...and instead adjust harvests with the allocations whenever possible. That way the trends can be more easily followed and variables accounted for. The less change = less guess work as to how much time addition or subtraction had effected tag use efficiency.
More days equal more of the bazillion tags that will be used. Unless you believe they will be responsibly adjusted in an actual DOWNWARD manner, but imho thats nothing more than wishful thinking. They have done nothing to show that to be likely, and their track record would strongly suggest otherwise. So assuming no responsible allocation reductions, Sundays will add to herd reductions.
43 states dont have nationally known "DEER WARS" and Dr. death Rosenberry and kill'em all Carl at the helm.
|
spoonchucker
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 8561
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 18:04:17
(permalink)
" If there are excessive costs with the current system and that much cash is being pizzed away compared to other systems, then its time to scrap and start over."
I didn't say anything about "excessive" costs. I was talking about which costs an agency, or division WITHIN an agency is reponsible for. Versus their funding. In Penna, ALL related costs are borne by the PGC. In other states, law enforcement, land acquistion, building construction & maintenance, vehicle purchase & maintenance cost may not come out of funds budgeted for the Game division of their DCNCR, DNR, or what ever the overseeing agency might be.
Yes, You can quantitativly state this state's Game division gets X dollars, and that state's gets Y. But if you don't know what COSTS each is responsible for. You can't put those funding differences into context.
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
|
wayne c
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3473
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 18:22:16
(permalink)
"I didn't say anything about "excessive" costs. I was talking about which costs an agency, or division WITHIN an agency is reponsible for." Yes. You could use LE from fish and boat and LE from game managemen agency, and if the job couldve been covered more efficiently by one agencies LE and the result was a cost savings, then yes we are talking about what could be reffered to as an excessive cost. Not debating the best route for le, just pointing that out. One doesnt need to look too long or too hard to see where our excessive costs come in, that other states do not. A VERY expensive money pit of a deer plan is where we can start the finger pointing. Excessive needless personell could be another. "Versus their funding. In Penna, ALL related costs are borne by the PGC. In other states, law enforcement, land acquistion, building construction & maintenance, vehicle purchase & maintenance cost may not come out of funds budgeted for the Game division of their DCNCR, DNR, or what ever the overseeing agency might be." Lots of states recieve general funding. Regardless of where the money comes from or whos paying the bills.... The money is accounted for.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/07/24 18:30:39
|
Esox_Hunter
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 2393
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2006/08/02 14:32:57
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 18:22:40
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
Guys wanting more days to kill game is sort of selfish in my book... 6 days ain't enough we want 7 ...
If anything, I would say it is the exact opposite of that. It is very apparent that many people are concerned that by opening up Sunday that the herd will be "further decimated" (lol) and that someone else may kill their deer. That to me seems awfully selfish. I know that is not your attitude Doc, but I hear many arguments that essentially state what I mentioned above. Anyways, first thing is first and that is getting the regulatory control where it needs to be.
post edited by Esox_Hunter - 2011/07/24 18:24:36
|
wayne c
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3473
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 18:33:29
(permalink)
Deer decimation? Gee, now why would anyone ever think that of pgc? Shocking isnt it? lmao.
|
Dr. Trout
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4417
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2002/03/03 03:12:33
- Location: Jefferson County (2F)
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 19:06:50
(permalink)
Doc it's not about filling tags, it's about having the freedom to hunt any day you wish. That is 100% YOUR opinion .... the majority of Pa hunters are meat hunters and they want their deer, that's why they buy a license ... I sure don't know many that buy a licesne to take their gun or bow for a walk and MAYBE get a deer.......if it was just about hunting they would not be complaining about the reduced deer herd now would they ????? while you may be more concerned about how many days you can get to hunt most are just worried about getting THEIR deer and putting meat in their freezer .......... I could easily jump on the band wagon for Sunday hunting if it were just about having more days to kill deer .. after all my odds NOW are pretty good, I get at least one every year, adding more days would just increase my odds of getting two or three.... and that to me would be selfish ... While it may sound odd for me to say.. but I CAN see why some want the extra days... they want to be one of the successful hunters and they feel extra days will increase the odds of that... I'm trying to look at the negative side of the topic... posted land, increased harvest, less tags, less deer, less licenses sold... none of which would be good for the sport ... as one of the guys on my board posted.. he would be against ANYTHING that may cause someone to lose the permission to hunt their current spots..........
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/07/24 19:11:25
|
tull66
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 1049
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2010/07/15 07:43:43
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 19:59:23
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
Doc it's not about filling tags, it's about having the freedom to hunt any day you wish.
That is 100% YOUR opinion .... And the opinion of EVERY single hunter I've heard an opinon from! I haven't heard any other reasons to allow Sunday hunting. the majority of Pa hunters are meat hunters and they want their deer, that's why they buy a license Doc, I think your opinion reflects your views on buying a license. I've never bought a license for meat in my life. I know many guys that apply for multiple doe tags and give all the meat away. ... I sure don't know many that buy a licesne to take their gun or bow for a walk and MAYBE get a deer.......if it was just about hunting they would not be complaining about the reduced deer herd now would they ????? Enter Exibit A: ME Getting a deer is not important to me, enjoying a day outdoors is. The more deer I see, hunting or not, the more enjoyable the day is. while you may be more concerned about how many days you can get to hunt most are just worried about getting THEIR deer and putting meat in their freezer It's not about more days to hunt, it's about the choice of days to hunt. Heck, putting food on the table takes 5-6 days for most people. I could easily jump on the band wagon for Sunday hunting if it were just about having more days to kill deer .. There you go contradicting yourself again. Do you discuss this stuff with yourself before posting? While it may sound odd for me to say.. but I CAN see why some want the extra days... they want to be one of the successful hunters and they feel extra days will increase the odds of that... Exibit B: Doc is selfish and fears someone may have increased odds at killing his deer. I'm trying to look at the negative side of the topic... posted land, increased harvest, less tags, less deer, less licenses sold... none of which would be good for the sport ... You are creating the negative side to support your agenda. Other states didn't suffer any of the "problems" you've just dreamt up. as one of the guys on my board posted.. he would be against ANYTHING that may cause someone to lose the permission to hunt their current spots..........
I raise a toast of Koolaid to your groupie. May he find eternal bliss helping pick out new names for your deer.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
|
retired guy
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3107
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2010/08/26 15:49:55
- Location: ct-vacation place in Richland
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 20:20:40
(permalink)
Hunt Ct where there is No Sunday hunting and at my place in upstate NY where there IS Sunday hunting. Bout the only dif I see is that in NY guys are thinned out a bit. Most working folks only get the weekend and have stuff to do at home with family and chores. In Ny they get to pick one day to hunt and in Ct they gotta go on Saturday. Lets face it, there only a lucky few of us who can really go both days.
post edited by retired guy - 2011/07/24 20:21:04
|
RSB
Expert Angler
- Total Posts : 932
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2010/08/11 22:55:57
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 20:29:49
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: bingsbaits
http://lbfc.legis.state.pa.us/reports/2010/42.PDF
Here's your link.
Looks like they have the oppotunity to make quite a pretty penny on the gas...
What I find quite disturbing is their lack of forestery skills.
They get 20% of their budget from timber sales, yet have only cataloged about 1/3 of their timberland.
How in God's name can you have a compehensive timber management plan when you have no clue how much timber you even have..Silly.
Mabee hire a couple more foresters and fire the tweety bird biologists...
First of all thanks for the link. I found it pretty interesting, But, based on you comments I have to assume that you must have missed these comments while reading the report. Or, perhaps you didn’t read all that much of the report. 2.3.2 Recommendations The Commission has been under an executively ordered hiring freeze, and many of their needs could be met when the freeze is lifted. Other needs reflect relatively recent technological developments (GIS) and the mission of the Commission (comprehensive game lands planning). Some of the recommended staff increases may be cost effective. If the planning process recommends that the Commission treat more land and consequently sells more timber, additional staff will be needed to accomplish this. However, other increases in staffing are recommended to allow the agency to better accomplish non-revenue components of their mission. These staffing needs are one example of why the Commission needs to enhance their current revenue stream. • Workload – The goal of having each forester treat 300 acres per year is consistent with other agencies. However, the current staffing allows for treatments on less than 0.5% of the acreage annually. Extra foresters might pay for themselves, since habitat management often includes commercial timber removals. As a start, vacant forestry positions should be filled to bring the complement up to currently authorized levels. Additional positions should then be considered where planning efforts are falling behind. Finally, once the planning process is complete and a sustainable level of harvest has been determined, the forestry staff may need to be increased to meet these goals. 6.1 Revenue Potential Over the last few years the Game Fund has managed to stay positive, although revenues are declining. The PGC has managed to stay fiscally sound primarily by not filling a number of critical positions, including forestry staff. As the previous chapters have shown, not having a full contingent of staff in timber and OGM management puts pressure on and limits revenue generation. The argument that revenues can be increased from timber and OGM resources is problematic from many perspectives. These are explained in previous chapters and summarized here. Central to the argument is that revenue generation on game lands must be put in context that its mission is wildlife management and resource extraction is driven to meet that objective. In other words, decisions to harvest timber or drill for gas must necessarily promote wildlife PGC’s wildlife objectives. In many cases, timber harvesting can and does enhance wildlife, but if timber revenue was maximized it would negatively impact wildlife habitat and sustainable resource management. OGM, on the other hand, does very little to enhance wildlife and may exacerbate fragmentation and loss of wildlife habitat. Regardless of wildlife impact, other limitations to maximizing timber and OGM revenues are the lack of planning and personnel to determine what is a sustainable, or even able be to determine a potential or a maximum amount of timber or OGM revenue available. The lack of timber planning is clearly illustrated in Chapter 2. The Game Commission does not have enough information about its current resource base to enable them to increase harvesting while assuring the public that this is a sustainable practice. Recent inventories are available for only about a third of the game lands, and up-to-date management plans have only been completed for about a fifth of the agency’s acreage. Furthermore, timber prices are currently very low, and it does not make much sense to increase timber sales at this time. It is unlikely that the demand for increased timber sales even exists in today’s market. If anything, timber sales should be reduced to allow the agency’s personnel to complete more plans. Then there is the issue of fluctuating and uncertain market for the hardwood timber in Pennsylvania. The following graphs show the timber sales and revenues from game lands. It is evident in the last ten years that timber revenues, acres harvested and board feet volume harvested have fluctuated and trend downwards. The main reasons are market factors such as weather conditions, consumer tastes, housing starts and the economy in general. In recent years, prices have dropped in some cases as much as by 50% for most Pennsylvania hardwoods. The market is expected to pick up in 2010 -2011 but is not expected to reach prices seen in the late 1990s. Fewer acres are treated due to forester’s increasing time commitments to other activities. The 300 acres per forester was based on a 1970s decisions of what foresters could accomplish in one year given their other duties, and was indirectly related to what PGC thought was area control sustainableyield harvest. The assumption on very old data is that there is about 900,000 acres of forest, which using a 100-year rotation, could sustainably yield about 9,000 acres per year. On average the PGC has harvested about 8,000 acres per year. Even if forest acres assumption is correct and PGC met the 9,000 acre target, revenue would not increase significantly because of other factors such as need to do more non-commercial thinning and the uncertain nature of timber markets. Board feet volume reductions are due to more non-commercial treatments as a percentage of total harvests in order to meet wildlife objectives. When you look at the totality of the facts and comments it becomes rather obvious that many of the functions of the Game Commission have been crippled by the lack of adequate funding to staff enough personnel to perform many important functions of the agency. R.S. Bodenhorn
|
wayne c
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3473
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 20:31:59
(permalink)
Retired guy, any idea how either state hunter numbers compare to our 900,000+ hunters? Or our over one and a half million total deer tags in circulation?
|
S-10
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 5185
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2005/01/21 21:22:55
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 20:41:40
(permalink)
And yet on this very topic you tried to feed us the following load of manure. Now you are pointing out very little is being done because of lack of manpower.
RSB QUOTE: There are presently 87 sites leased and it is pretty unlikely there will be many additional leases since they already have about everything leased that is feasible to drill.
|
wayne c
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3473
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 20:44:32
(permalink)
"The Commission has been under an executively ordered hiring freeze, and many of their needs could be met when the freeze is lifted. Other needs reflect relatively recent technological developments (GIS) and the mission of the Commission (comprehensive game lands planning). Some of the recommended staff increases may be cost effective. If the planning process recommends that the Commission treat more land and consequently sells more timber, additional staff will be needed to accomplish this. However, other increases in staffing are recommended to allow the agency to better accomplish non-revenue components of their mission. These staffing needs are one example of why the Commission needs to enhance their current revenue stream." YES< ENHANCE via more drilling that pgc was expected to do...future DRILLING WHICH THE REPORT WAS ABOUT!!!! Very little of the resource has been exploited by pgc, and even less of it was at the time of the report. This report was about POTENTIAL FUTURE FUNDING via pgcs resources,not funding pgc was utilizing at the time of the report. "The argument that revenues can be increased from timber and OGM resources is problematic from many perspectives. These are explained in previous chapters and summarized here. Central to the argument is that revenue generation on game lands must be put in context that its mission is wildlife management and resource extraction is driven to meet that objective."
That is a citing of what might be possible pgcs position on the matter, trying to see things from a differing angle considering why they have been a little slower to drill than say your average joe. Nothing more. "Regardless of wildlife impact, other limitations to maximizing timber and OGM revenues are the lack of planning and personnel to determine what is a sustainable, or even able be to determine a potential or a maximum amount of timber or OGM revenue available. The lack of timber planning is clearly illustrated in Chapter 2." WHich is nothing more than simply pgc mismanagement of the resource period. No excuse for it. "When you look at the totality of the facts and comments it becomes rather obvious that many of the functions of the Game Commission have been crippled by the lack of adequate funding to staff enough personnel to perform many important functions of the agency." Yet the reserve fund has been growing and funding is NOW continuing to grow since they have begun to exploit the Marcellus. Some of these things have also been since rectified such as alot of the mineral rights investigating. Even ol' quick Carl stated at legislative hearing that they were gonna do "very well". With his emphasis on very. Quite a turn around from the original damage control efforts when he claimed they had no idea what they owned and what they didnt...and tried to minimize it to get the fee increase in addition to.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/07/24 20:49:13
|
retired guy
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3107
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2010/08/26 15:49:55
- Location: ct-vacation place in Richland
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 21:29:54
(permalink)
Hi Wayne- As a past PA guy I am well aware that PA has always been 'the Deer' state in the Northeast. Hate to read some of this stuff indicating that may be changing in some folks opinions or in reality- thats lousy either way. That being said have hunted Ct and NY extensively and both are great Deer hunting places if hunted correctly in the right spots. One would have to think that in order to make the comparison you suggest ya would have to take the huntable acreage in each state and compare that to the number of hunters and the DPSM. Frankly that IMHO is Not the issue nor would I bother to do it. Well known that PA always had a huge herd and many hunters all in a large mostly rural state. I made the comparison on Sunday hunting cause I have firsthand experience by virtue of the fact that I hunt two states every year that have differing viewpoints and laws on the issue at hand. Also have a big 'warmspot' for PA and considered it my second homeplace for many many years. Frankly would hate to even hear bout PA goin downhill in this regard. My experiences with Sundays only indicates to me that it gives the guy who for many reasons may not have been able to get out at all on a Saturday a chance to enjoy this great sport too. Not everyone has the opportunity to get out both days even in the best of circumstances-so Sundays do not mean twice the hunting gets done by any means. NY showed me that. The rest of us whos schedules would allow this are the 'lucky' ones.
post edited by retired guy - 2011/07/24 21:43:58
|
Dr. Trout
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4417
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2002/03/03 03:12:33
- Location: Jefferson County (2F)
- Status: offline
RE: 8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90
2011/07/24 21:43:38
(permalink)
As a past PA guy I am well aware that PA has always been 'the Deer' state in the Northeast. Hate to read some of this stuff indiicating that may be changing in some folks opinions.or in reality- thats lousy either way the highlighted part above is what you have to remember.. it's just some people's opinion.. not necessarily the facts... Top 10 states – average season harvest thru 2009 ... (according to HuntStats.com)
#10 – Louisiana – 247,800
#9 – South Carolina – 274,890
#8 – New York – 276,696
#7 – Mississippi – 311,676
#6 – Texas – 417,462
#5 – Georgia – 420,800
#4 – Alabama – 424,420
#3 – Pennsylvania – 452,925
#2 – Wisconsin – 467,808
#1 – Michigan – 495,303
So PA is still "the deer place in the Northeast" and #3 in the USA .. and that's without Sunday Hunting ....don't get much better than that !!!!
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/07/24 21:46:48
|
|
|