8 new wells to be drilled on SGL # 90

I know a group of guys who own a camp in 2G. They lease like 1200 acres, and own 88. They jumped on the gas wagon early. Yeah their camp is great looking now(new roads,roof,porches,etc..). BUT all the game moved. I know this because I hunted with them last year on the first Sat. We pushed deer ALL day. From one mountain to the next. 18 guys saw a total of 6 deer. I saw none(there was even snow on the ground!). All day long I heard trucks and drill pads. All that ground and its worthless now for hunting. They use to talk about all the money they were going to get. Now they all wonder where the game is. What good is a beautiful hunting camp WITHOUT game to hunt?

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

Permits have been approved for 8 new wells to be drilled on State Game Lands 90 by Marcellus. This is no doubt a big plus for the PGC but how about the sportsman? What's your opinion on the drilling of these wells. Does the result of these wells mean that less area available for the sportsman to hunt? Does the 150 yard safety zone apply to the well sites. What about the roads that are made to get to and from the drilling pad? Do they provide additional habitat for game ? Many are getting on board the "get rich quick" craze, whats your opinion ? Are these wells a threat to our environment or just a bunch of bs?

http://theprogressnews.com/default.asp?read=27568

 
Did you make any effort to find out if the Game Commission even owns the minerals under SGL # 90? It is entirely possible that the Game Commission has no say on them recovering their minerals and will not get any revenue from it when they do.
 
They are putting wells all over the Game lands here in Elk County but the Game Commission isn’t making any money on them because we don’t own the minerals. We can’t stop them from going in and getting their minerals and pretty much have no control over the roads and other infrastructure used in the process. They do have to pay for any trees they remove in the process, at least on most of the game lands. One place they are putting wells we don’t even get paid for the trees they remove since the person we bought the property from kept the timber reservation for 20 years.
 
There are actually very few game lands where the Game Commission does own the minerals. Generally the Game Commission couldn’t afford to buy the mineral rights with the property so we usually just buy the surface rights while the original owner keeps the mineral rights. Most of the mineral rights in this area have been retained by the original land barren owners of what had been huge land tracts since way back in the early 1900s. Much of that land has been sold to the Game Commission but they have retained the mineral rights through all these years and now either their heirs or who ever they sold the mineral rights to are the ones reaping the benefits from the drilling.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

""The PGC manages 1.4 million acres of land. About 67 percent, 961,000 acres, are in the Marcellus shale. But the PGC owns mineral rights on only about 500,000 acres of these lands. ""


Gee, mineral rights on 'only' 500,000 acres... Yep... Headed to the poor house i tell ya! lmao.

the facts

One more fact:  There are a boat load of farmers without mineral rights getting rich off of gas.
 
RSB stated: They are putting wells all over the Game lands here in Elk County but the Game Commission isn’t making any money on them because we don’t own the minerals.

"Once again I will have to add other facts that have been ommitted..."

You have provided no facts that were omitted, nothing but you trying to play games. The statement i quoted was the one that directly refuted rsb's claim, and what you have added adds absolutely nothing at all to it because its not specificly about what was discussed in any way. I posted a link so anyone can read the entire thing if they like, while still making my point and avoiding making a giant post, most of which has nothing to do with the point discussed.

The statement i made disproving rsbs statement was not about how many acres are currently under lease which is what you quoted from the article. The nonsense i pointed out from rsb was in regard to MINERAL RIGHTS OWNED. Though those lands not under lease are as good as money in the bank. The article is also nearly a year old and more leases have been made since. One deal alone netting pgc over 18 million. Anyone with the intellect of a fairly young child or better can easily realize that there is a bundle of money to be made with 500,000+ acres. The legislative budget and finance committee's study also spoke of the obscene ballpark totals that would be possible for pgc and had already been posted here previously. The cats out of the bag doc and for most of us familiar with what is going on, it has been for some time now.


Thanks for giving me the opening to add even more of "the facts" here doc.

Maybe now we can all lobby for pgc to get a fee increase, not because they need it, but just out of the kindness of our hearts and so Carl can quit being greedy and quit STILL groveling for it? lmao!

The Marcellus gas that isnt being tapped yet isnt going anywhere. And the demand will only grow into the future.

The extraction on the gamelands is just getting rolling. There is no question pgc is sitting on a veritable gold mine with their land holdings and mineral rights. I find it 100% laughable that anyone would ever insinuate otherwise.

"And I find it absolutely laughable that you appear to have intentionally left out such a MAJOR part of the story with your quote concerning the amount of land being leased and how much it has brought in"

It was never my intention to do so...so what? That only supports what ive said over and over that they have only begun to siphon off of this funding source. No surprises. But doesnt really matter, as my point was you didnt have a clue what you were talking about or you intentionally lied when you said pgc owned VERY LITTLE of their mineral rights on the gamelands. And that was b.s..

And it doesnt make one lick of difference if theyve already cashed in or intend to do so in the near future Its a valuable asset. You distorted the facts, and as usual I pointed out reality. I provided the link to the article, and you can take whatever you like from it. But none of it supports your previous claim or discounts mine. You are simply using your usual tactic when you get caught sticking your foot in mouth.... changing the argument to something else it never was. That, and post several quotes that have no bearing, just to muddy the waters. If you want to discuss all the angles of the topic, fine by me, but dont act as if you are presenting them to discount something else altogether. That might just be taken as intent to decieve.

"So with the Game Commission expecting to bring in 4 million dollars per well over a 30-year period that sure doesn’t appear to be any windfall in my book."

Funny ting about 500,000 acres of mineral rights is that even with a reasonable portion of them utilized you have quite a few wells drilled. That number of wells is and will be multiplying exponentially compared to what has already taken place. Especially since the article was last year, and the huge majority of the resource has yet to be tapped. Though they have realized a few healthy chunks, just tip of the iceberg.

"It is already costing the Game Commission a lot of money to not only administer the welfare or our resources for MANY well where we get NO return so that most certainly offsets any perceived cash cow for the few wells where the Game Commission does get some royalty."

Gimme a break. The budget and finance committee told the tale with their report. Trying to downplay the substantial windfall is absolute absurdity and may be the dumbest thing ive ever seen you attempt to do. Even if we for some reason were to discount the budget & finance committee report...which i wouldnt.... HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ACRES WORTH OF MINERAL RIGHTS. Enough said.

"I guess some people obviously just don’t take the time to collect all of the facts or to think things through to a logical conclusion in their hast to bad mouth everything the the Game Commission does or doesn’t do. "

Badmouth?? They gonna be raking in dough hand over fist with this marcellus dealings and thats a nondebatable fact. Thats not bad mouthing them, thats simply stating the obvious. If i wanna badmouth them, i'll point out that they are untrustworthy, a few need fired badly, and i dont trust them with more money as far as i could throw them... See the diff? lol.

But thankfully our legislators are not complete moron enough to sign off on a fee increase with pgc already raking in more funding than any other wildlife management agency in the nation Im aware of...more than alot of states that even use their funding for FISH AND GAME COMBINED!!. Whats more, PGC getting even MORE cash with the gas funds multiplying, and to top it all off, nation low credibility....And they seriously expect a fee increase? Unbelievable.

Also like to add, that-- only you could make 500,000 acres worth of mineral rights during the "Marcellus boom" sound like a heavy burden to bear, and more trouble than its worth. lmao. I now feel sorry for pgc for having to dot the i's and cross the t's before banking the millions. poor poor downtrodden pgc.

... Now contemplate this on the tree of woe...

Based on the information RSB posted the 500,000 acres the PGC owns rights to should yield them approx $434,000,000 for the first 10 years of operation. His definition of a windfall must be different than most folks. While they may not lease it all that number is only based on one third the life of a well.

Nowhere near ALL of the acerage within the Marcellus range, has extractable gas under it.

ORIGINAL: S-10

Based on the information RSB posted the 500,000 acres the PGC owns rights to should yield them approx $434,000,000 for the first 10 years of operation. His definition of a windfall must be different than most folks. While they may not lease it all that number is only based on one third the life of a well.

 
I don’t know what kind of fuzzy math you are using but it doesn’t compute.
 
There are presently 87 sites leased and it is pretty unlikely there will be many additional leases since they already have about everything leased that is feasible to drill. Those sites are projected to each bring in about 4 million dollars over a thirty-year period. That equates to an average of about 11 million dollars per year for the total of all of those wells. I have seen years where timber sales exceeded that.
 
That 11 million is just a relatively small fraction of what it takes to run the Game Commission programs. Last year it cost over 74 million to run the agency and that is while being on an austerity-spending budget with many things that should be done not getting done because we haven’t filled many of the vacant personnel positions needed to get them done.
 
Here is the link that will take you to the location where you can find out what the Agency does, what it costs and where the money comes from for each of the past several years.
 
[color=#800080 size=3]http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=567554&mode=2
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

Everyone uses energy but hates to hear where it comes from.
No source of energy is without problems.
The idea is to use the one that the least amount of people whine about.

Do tree huggers live in houses made out of wood and and use paper?
Do they buy the nasty tasting Florida corn in the winter just to wipe their azz?

Some people equate this to killing baby seals for their oil.
Do they have oil?

Are these not the same people that ran the budget bill to the last second and the same ones telling us things are not as bad in Pa as in other states..

budget committee ... that is funny as hell ..... I image most of them could not budget and balance their own check books and just think --- they really do not have to .. if things get tough for them personally they just vote themselves a raise...

_____________________________

February 2010 Examination of Current and Future Costs and Revenues From Forest Products and Oil, Gas, and Mineral Extraction on Pennsylvania Game Commission Lands

This is a study commissioned by the politicans but conducted by PENN STATE and reviews the potiential for revenue from minerals and timber. Notice it was done last year. Also notice that last year the PGC didn't really know how much land they held the rights to. The PGC at the time said they didn't have the money or manpower to determine their ownership and it would take years to make that determination. Now RSB wants us to believe all that work has beem magically done, the available land has already been leased, and the leases only involve a relatively small amount of money going to the PGC coffers. Tell me again who is spreading the manure.

ORIGINAL: S-10

Are these not the same people that ran the budget bill to the last second and the same ones telling us things are not as bad in Pa as in other states..

budget committee ... that is funny as hell ..... I image most of them could not budget and balance their own check books and just think --- they really do not have to .. if things get tough for them personally they just vote themselves a raise...

_____________________________

February 2010 Examination of Current and Future Costs and Revenues From Forest Products and Oil, Gas, and Mineral Extraction on Pennsylvania Game Commission Lands

This is a study commissioned by the politicans but conducted by PENN STATE and reviews the potiential for revenue from minerals and timber. Notice it was done last year. Also notice that last year the PGC didn't really know how much land they held the rights to. The PGC at the time said they didn't have the money or manpower to determine their ownership and it would take years to make that determination. Now RSB wants us to believe all that work has beem magically done, the available land has already been leased, and the leases only involve a relatively small amount of money going to the PGC coffers. Tell me again who is spreading the manure.

 
And, where is the link to this study you are referencing? If we have the link to all of the story maybe we will see just what else it has to say that you perhpas don't want everyone to know about?
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

ORIGINAL: RSB
 
“Eighty-seven permits have been issued on game lands, and 31 wells have been drilled.  Additionally, 72,425 acres are under lease now.  Mike estimates that over a 30-year life of a well the PGC will receive $4 million.”

So with the Game Commission expecting to bring in 4 million dollars per well over a 30-year period that sure doesn’t appear to be any windfall in my book.

 
$4,000,000 / 30 years  =  $133,333 per year
$133,333 / 12  =  $11,111 per month, per well
$11,111  X   31 wells(so far) =  $344,444 per month income
 
RSB, "your book" would certainly not make the best-sellers list unless we run out of bird cage liners.
 
 

I guess some people obviously just don’t take the time to collect all of the facts or to think things through to a logical conclusion...
R.S. Bodenhorn

 
Agreed!
T66
 

And yet those are the same people that you want in control of the Sunday hunting... HMMMMMMMMMM....

The folks in control SHOULD be held responsible to those they serve...

year after year, month after month, day after day, some of you are on here beeching the PGC does not listen to the hunters who bought the land and are owed plenty of game to hunt.

You beech about the deer plan, beech about the laws, beech about them not knowing what they are doing..

NOW you all have jumped on the "thumbs up PGC" ... we want you running the hunting season, allocation etc, and now adding another day to kill more deer, rabbits, etc, etc...

how can you sit on here and complain about the deer plan the PGC is running and want to give them more days to kill all the deer off for the tree-huggers etc... give them (the PGC) even more power (another day to kill) and the hunters (who you say) they do not listen to now will have even less say...


If the politicians retain control of Sundays at least some game will be saved... because The PGC can not change it without their approval and folks that do not like their decisions have a say at the ballot box....

I just LOVE how all of a sudden you anti PGC folks want and trust the PGC with such a big thing now...

welcome aboard the PGC supporters club .. I knew you would join me eventually