Agree 100% with no kill for atlantics especially since they will run multiple spawning years. I've seen a few the past 2 years in the hatchery and have heard of decent pushes in the lower river for them... no doubt are they starting toshow up more and more. But iwould hope they never show up in numbers even close to kings; that would tame the fun out of it... since we're so in depth with the fishery as a whole; I personallly would rather see a reduction in fall chinooks and maybe a smaller spring chinook program to go underway. This could help the river in many ways for all you know; spring run chinooks are less dominant and often smaller in size; but more aggressive and eager to strike; they would maybe encourage atlantics and steelhead to follow them for their spawn and roe?????? Hey you never know???? bottom line though with this river; its good clean and cold water; that's what makes it world class; and I do believe the atlantics will come back better than most think; let's hope atleast...

RT:

C&R practices,lower creel limits, and increased stocking of steelhead during recent years has turned the SR into another Erie stream - full of cookie-cutter fish.

To those that chose QUANTITY over QUALITY, you got what you wished for.

IMO, the best days of the SR, like the Pineville Bridge, are history.

Call me greedy, but I'd opt to go back to the good ole days (less than 10 years ago), when you had a bona-fide chance at a 20lber, and were not surrounded by the hordes of new steelhead enthusiasts who seem to enjoy yankin the same darkhorse steelhead from the upper river - over & over & over again.

to quote the words of Metalslayer - "It's so easy a cavemen can do it".

Dime- agree on the biguns- have seen huge Steel in the hatchery runs.  They are more common than many think but for some reason we just dont seem to catch that many though. Then again perhaps we do and just cant land them or think we hooked a shark and break em off.
    BTW- You may recall a couple of years ago there was almost a complete halt to fishing on one of the more popular ( my favorite) feeders in an effort to increase natural repro there. I fear as more and more species are  becoming involved in the system this kind of thought process may become more prevelant.
   Yes -we all want to see natural repro but the fact of the matter is that this is and always will be a primarily put and take system due to the popularity of the fishery and intense pressure that brings with it.
   I made that catch and release suggestion as' food for thought' as a manner of trying to satisfy both 'sides' of the issue. It has already been done to great extent with the DSR and Fly zone regs as well as the lower limits put on the fishery by regulation as you suggest.
    My fear is that rather than continue with lower or controlled 'take' the notion of closing entire areas may someday prevail.
  The only other remedy I see would be 'tags' for kept fish that come with a license- you know like the ones we used to get in Nova Scotia when fishing Atlantics . When you take the last tag  off your license-- -all done till next year - no excuses. Personally I have kept two fish over  many recent years despite purchasing a place  up there and fishing several days a month at least- year round.
     Scotia gave 10 tags and of course SR would have some kind off combo system for various fishes if it ever happened but I think talking the State into a special system for one river might be impossible.
    There are fishermen of all kinds out there- Some just wanna go get a fish and some, as we all know, are those  with a completely different mindset that excludes the first group to a very great degree. If that 'all for the fish and not the fisherman' mindset ever gets going I fear the fishable system  may well shrink.
    Thats not a fantasy cause it almost happened a couple of years ago in the main feeder cause of Steel beds. That combined with those limited acess issues I brought up a post or two ago could really change things up there.       
     They are definatly teetering on the edge of that mindset and have shown it by virtue of that 'almost a reality' effort in the feeder.
    It would be awful if expanding the fish ended up reducing the fishery.
  There are those who say "yea but they will never do that cause of all the money brought into the area by fishing".   The reality however is that those millions compared to the gross of State business revenue is scant.
     Yes, the area is in need of each dollar but it is not the area who controls the endeavor at hand. As a matter of fact the elected representatives of the area are small in number due to the very rural low population that exists and therefore have low impact when in the attendance of representatives of the entire State of NY.
   Sad to say that the revenues of the SR are a small excuse when compared to ---oh say only one  business in NYC of minimal size. It would seem that we are fortunate, for now at least, that the economy in general surely notices a sucsesful venture as represented by the SR and its benefits to an otherwise area of diminished opportunity--- Hope that lasts.
   I must be getting old and bored but that stuff has been on my little mind for a while now.

Pete - there is NO looking down on anybody for anything goin on herebouts. We all like the same thing and do it in the same place its GREAT. Different styles Different ways - but the same thing.

You might be very sadly right retired guy... as for waterfront access and property; the dec has swallowed all rights and access to it on any properties sold since early 2000s... most property owners with riverfront who have bought recently have it deeded that the dec has right of way for the conservation easement that they plotted. This is usually 100' from the river bank... in one way this is great for all anglers; but on the other hand, a land owner can have their waterfront swiped right out of their hands... definitely a controversial subject... id hope to think that the fishery will stay public as always; but time will tell...look at all of the private rivers abroad in the world today; especially atlanticsalmon rivers...hint hint.... time will tell.

Hey pete no assumptions of those sorts at all...

The stream easements are sold to the state from property owners by using my (our) state tax dollars in 2 categories..
1. Bank Easement : Meaning public has a right of 100' shore access. That may mean you need to access the water from above or below the private property.. Or the Stream its self in a public point.
2. Public right away : Meaning it gives the public a designated path way to the stream through private property..

Both are Forever public fishing rights and included in deed transfers.. If someone denies you these rights and has been paid for such then by all means report them.


P.S.
The cry to close Orwell was from uneducated people wanting it closed to protect vulnerable fish .. Protecting their spawning was the argument used. The DEC has surveyed these streams and obviously felt protecting spawning was not in issue..
Food for thought..

Personally I find no sport in fishing them Pucker Bush creeks..

ORIGINAL: hot tuna

It's a freakin put & take fishery where many local guides make a living.

Don't get me wrong, it's one hell of a put&take machine the DEC built...

But the fact that it is man-made fishery gets lost on some of the folks and their wild ideas of restoring natural reproduction in great #'s.

furrgetaboudit..

PFR > Public fishing rights..
Just got to poke around ;)
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9924.html

One Last Info Over Load:
If you float (guide) below the long bridge you are also required to hold a white water license for any class IV water which there and below the black hole is. That license is difficult to obtain and requires a min. number of hrs. in such site specific IV waters..

wow, a lot of activity here; kinda of hard to keep up with...

no gun to my head though drake, was completely aware of bank easement prior to buying; and no i did not get paid by the state for it. the land was originally niagra mohawk but was sold when they were bought out... the easement holds obviously from many years a go as this area has been public access for as long as i can remember and even long before my time... access is only granted through public parking access though; unless you're a friend :) i particularily was encouraged by the easement when i purchased it for all fairness of fellow anglers; its a special area to say the least and feel honored to more or less be part of the fishery ...

hey tuna, you are very right with most you say, but text book conditions aren't always 100%; i'm no biologist but from what i have seen from observing the river throughout the summer for many years now is proof that this fishery can sustain more than it does presently and i do believe it will happen; look at the low water year we had in 07; i remember seeing spawning cohoes in the hundreds in small areas in to novemeber... but thats just me; no fact based science... just my own eyes..all i know is water temps are 58 right now and flowing above normal, and there are presently a few different species that are embracing healthfully in the river; in abundance??? definitely not... but there is a presence; and will be up in to salmon season as it increases... seeing is believing for me;
btw; from a select few anglers i know, last april and may did host a few days with double digit days on mixxed bags of atlantics/steelies... there are a lot more than 4 out there ;)

for the lost souls theory; i saw a spawned pair of cohoes this past march in a smaller than pucker brush trickle of a creek; these fish were spawned but still alive and not even close to rotten... keep in mind this is before the water even came up and the creek was actually still snow and ice mounded; you should of seen the colors on these fish and the look they had, i would put money on it that they were wild; after watching them for a little i went to step across the trickle and kicked out a large beat up male steelhead that looked spawned already but no female; no science or fact based info here, but i believe they were all wild fish

on the other hand, i went large mouth fishing last night til dark and slammed them; has anyone else been getting out at all? i'm gonna be up north in late may and early june; looking forward to some large and small mouth fishing with some honest attempts for steel/atlantics...

have you been walleye fishing yet drake?

Definitely the river will go aabove 70; but not where the springs comme in ;)... good luck with your specs... im already catching spawnedout bass down here in jersey; just about every fish I caught the other night was over 2 lbs; for trout ionly have put and take down here and I have kinda had it with that already; but I did catch some nice ones... but I've seen bass up to 6 pounds in this lake and suspect there's larger ones; so I prefer them over the trout right now; although we ( my son and I ) did get a 16 inch brookie and rainbow last month... tight lines

ORIGINAL: dimebrite

have you been walleye fishing yet drake?

Nope, been hangin in Pa knocking the crap out of the crappies. Good Eats...

Hey rt, the best tasting fish I've ever had were little brookies I caught in a little tributary stream of the chettacamp in nova scotia; finger licking good:)