DarDys
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 12:56:48
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I am not really arguing it at all. I am trying to form an opinion. In order to do that, I need as much information as possible. The gaps that I need to fill in the known unknowns here is what effect would it have and to what degree.
At this point, my only real interest in Sunday hunting is for pheasants which are stocked on a put and take basis anyway. I feel that i might as well shoot them rather than give more of them to the predators who are not bound by No Hunting on sunday rules.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 12:58:39
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S-10, If we are specifically talking deer, according to the PGC we have lost 200,000 deer hunters recently. Usually as hunter numbers and/or participation decreases, opportunity increases for those that are still hunting. Whether it is tags, season length or weapon changes. Agian, I do not think deer would be on the radar for some time but the discussion usually goes that direction. I see small game and maybe youth seasons seeing the first action if regulatory control transfers. I am not saying that adding a Sunday to deer is needed right now, BTW. It is just a option that the PGC does not have available to them currently in deer seasons or any other season for that matter.
post edited by dpms - 2011/04/12 13:12:22
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 13:19:21
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ORIGINAL: DarDys
At this point, my only real interest in Sunday hunting is for pheasants which are stocked on a put and take basis anyway. I feel that i might as well shoot them rather than give more of them to the predators who are not bound by No Hunting on sunday rules.
A likely scenario and a good one, IMO. So much more to this issue than deer.
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S-10
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 13:32:40
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If we are specifically talking deer, according to the PGC we have lost 200,000 deer hunters recently. Usually as hunter numbers and/or participation decreases, opportunity increases for those that are still hunting. Whether it is tags, season length or weapon changes. In Theory you are correct. In actual practice in Pennsylvania the hunter numbers are in large part dwindling in response to the dwindling game populations so your premise is incorrect in this case. In yesterdays afternoon meeting the reasons for hunter decline in one of their surveys was given as 1. lack of game 2. Lack of place to hunt 3. Lack of time to hunt. As to Essox's question what we have to lose is an increase in the number of hunters dropping out in response to the increasing loss of game numbers which causes the loss of any clout we may have.
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 13:45:10
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ORIGINAL: S-10
In Theory you are correct. In actual practice in Pennsylvania the hunter numbers are in large part dwindling in response to the dwindling game populations so your premise is incorrect in this case. In yesterdays afternoon meeting the reasons for hunter decline in one of their surveys was given as 1. lack of game 2. Lack of place to hunt 3. Lack of time to hunt.
I agree. Which is why I suggested it as an option but not neccessarily needed at this point in time because deer numbers are lower. This is good. All we need is for the regulatory transfer to happen and these discussions will actually matter. The important thing is that they will be directed towards a game agency and not politicians.
post edited by dpms - 2011/04/12 13:48:30
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S-10
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 13:54:11
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I think we see the same problems on a host of game related issues but tend to take slightly different paths as to what we feel is their solution. Only time well tell who is correct on several of them. I fully understand the current workers wanting Sundays as I balanced work and hunting for nearly 40 years. We will have to agree to disagree on the benefits vs the drawbacks on this one. Have a good one 
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bingsbaits
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 15:36:42
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"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 15:40:30
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I don't believe a resolution was offered today.
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 16:25:02
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What we really need here in 2a is a f*&**& Sunday hunting now that we have our 65000 tags. Thatd sure be swell.  We really need it to go along with our declining deer herd and new record all time high bizzarre anal 65000 tags. Idiotberry finally admitted the herd was/is being decreased even though the claims had been stabilization all along. Lying phony. Yeah, give these clowns more days to kill more deer. Thats exactly what we really need. So much for your rediculous faith in them and predictions of great beneficial changes that would lessen the effect here of sunday hunting dpms. As i see it, its just been magnified.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/04/12 16:29:10
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 17:01:24
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I do not think that more hunters leaving the sport because of lack of game increases the chances for the 3-4 day hunter's success... less guys in the woods means less game movement ... sure that would mean less killed by those quitting and more out there for the rest but it also means less movement for those that are out there... What game animal in Pa do we REALLY think needs the added pressure and increased harvest numbers by adding more days to kill them.... as mentioned most populations are falling .. I understand why many guys want the Sunday hunting, so they have another day to be successful or at least enjoy the sport.. ... BUT we need to consider and remember the results of added days to the decrease in populations by those added hunters and harvests.. That's part of why I oppose the idea... I'd love to see guys get more opportunities to harvest game... but not sure any of the populations really need the added harvest numbers that added days (Sundays) would surely bring... Even just the middle Sunday in rifle deer season would have significant results.. many guys do not travel to camps that first Friday night for just a one day hunt on Saturday... give them a half day on Sunday and they will come !!!! Just not the time to risk losing open hunting grounds for added kills of decreasing game populations.... IMHO
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/04/12 17:03:37
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 17:11:26
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
What we really need here in 2a is a f*&**& Sunday hunting now that we have our 65000 tags. Thatd sure be swell.
Last I looked, Sunday wasn't added to deer season. Not only that, it appears there was no discussion of a regulatory transfer which is just a first step. I think you are gonna be okay for awhile, Wayne. Now we just have tof igure out the 65000 allocation for 2A. Split season will help a bit but surely put alot of pressure on the available bucks here.
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S-10
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 17:23:55
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65,000 is what the biologists told the BOC would keep the herd stable with a split season. 54,000 was the number they gave for concurrent season to keep the herd stable. Sounds like they are just playing games to make the hunters think they are helping increase the herd.
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 17:26:40
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ORIGINAL: S-10
65,000 is what the biologists told the BOC would keep the herd stable with a split season. 54,000 was the number they gave for concurrent season to keep the herd stable. Yep. The biologists gave each commissioner two sets of numbers not knowing which way these guys were gonna go.
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 17:28:21
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"Last I looked, Sunday wasn't added to deer season." Last i looked that would be a just about definate direct result of your lil' campaign. "I think you are gonna be okay for awhile, Wayne. Now we just have tof igure out the 65000 allocation for 2A. Split season will help a bit but surely put alot of pressure on the available bucks here." Not really interested in your interpretatin of me being "ok or not". Although im not real sure about that either. If you saw the veins throbbing in my temple and neck after hearing the allocation, youd understand....lol.   The current direction is asinine and total mismanagement. Also, they can shove the split season where the sun doesnt shine. Rosenliar finally admitted yesterday at the meeting that the deer herd in 2a WAS declining, despite the claims it was being stabilized. And that was with 55,000 tags, and prior to that a larger herd was being reduced prior to that with far fewer! The split season would have been questionable if it might "help" even with the absolutely astronomical 55k tags which was reducing our herd anyway to that point. With 65,000 even if its a wash with the split seasons compared to previously, our reduction continues. And also possible even more may be killed. Not meaning to hijack your thread off the actual topic, but it is all tied together. We need more days (sunday or any other added days) to use our fantastic new allocation about as much as each of us needs a second and third a-hole. Then the change to antler restrictions equals even fewer deer around. Id give 5 years off the end of my life to be executive director at pgc for ONE DAY. If i could personally fire dubrock and Rosenberry, i would die a happy man. _____________________________
post edited by wayne c - 2011/04/12 17:32:41
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 17:35:21
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
Not meaning to hijack your thread off the actual topic, but it is all tied together. We need more days (sunday or any other added days) to use our fantastic new allocation about as much as each of us needs a second and third a-hole.
_____________________________
Thats okay. It appears the BOC doesn't want regulatory control of hunting any time soon. Might as well go somewhere else with the thread. As I said before, I would urge a slow guarded approach if it were to ever transfer.
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S-10
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 17:58:55
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If you want to go another direction allow me to help --------I just found out by watching the procedings and doing a bit of digging that the PGC is inflating the archery and muzzleloading harvest by 26 to 28% and has been for quite awhile. These inflated numbers are then part of the total deer harvest. They are doing it by using the gun season reporting rate even though the archery and muzzleloading reporting rates are higher. To make it worse Chris R. says it is insignificant for what they are trying to accomplish. I consider a inflated increase of 7-9K on the buck harvest to be significant.
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 18:07:46
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Any indication how long this has been? If it were recently changed I would wonder why. If it has always been, not so much.
post edited by dpms - 2011/04/12 18:09:17
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S-10
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 18:30:02
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I think it has been going on in some form for decades although since they have used three different population models since 2001 it's hard to tell. The important thing to remember now is 20 years ago the archery and muzz harvest was a small percentage of the total harvest so only inflated the total numbers 2-4%. Now just the archery harvest is 1/3 of the total harvest so you are talking big numbers. For example last years archers and crossgunners took an inflated estimate of 39,450 bucks. Do the math and that means the actual harvest was 31,063. That's 8387 fewer than the total estimated deer kill shows.
post edited by S-10 - 2011/04/12 19:06:36
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RSB
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 18:46:13
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ORIGINAL: S-10
If you want to go another direction allow me to help--------I just found out by watching the procedings and doing a bit of digging that the PGC is inflating the archery and muzzleloading harvest by 26 to 28% and has been for quite awhile. These inflated numbers are then part of the total deer harvest. They are doing it by using the gun season reporting rate even though the archery and muzzleloading reporting rates are higher. To make it worse Chris R. says it is insignificant for what they are trying to accomplish. I consider a inflated increase of 7-9K on the buck harvest to be significant.
Do you really believe the archery harvest reporting rates are higher than gun harvest rates? It has been my experience that archery harvests are some of both the least likely harvests to be tagging or reporting. Archery season is when I am most likely to catch hunters not tagging their deer so they still have the tag for gun season. People who don’t even tag their deer certainly aren’t going to be sending in a report card either. I suspect the actual harvest data for archery season might even be higher than what is being calculated instead of less. R.S. Bodenhorn
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S-10
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 18:58:26
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You will have to argue with Chris on that. I think it was Boop that called him on it and he tried to brush it aside and said it was insignificent for what they were trying to do. There is also a research paper on the PGC website authored by Rosenberry, Wallingford and Diefenback that gives the harvest inflation on bucks as 26-28%. Notice my recalculation on the number it's inflated by is 8387. I caught myself in a math error.
post edited by S-10 - 2011/04/12 19:08:19
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wayne c
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/12 20:17:17
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"Do you really believe the archery harvest reporting rates are higher than gun harvest rates?" Rsb, it was stated and AGREED TO by Rosenberry yesterday. He also admitted upon being pressure by Boop (the only person at elmerton avenue with a shred of sense) that the buck harvest was definately LOWER than the harvest estimate (but in his opinion within acceptable range! lmao) some years around 5% i believe it was mentioned, because they do not account for higher reporting rates of archers & also i believe muzzleloaders. You can go to the pgc site and watch the recorded proceedings if youd like to confirm. Just one more instance of the blatent fraud which is Pa deer management. Unbelievable what these people are able to get away with where OUR resources are concerned.
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dpms
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RE: Sportsmans orgs and Sunday hunting
2011/04/14 12:11:11
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Back to the topic. Hopeful to see this resolution during the June meeting. Saw some recent activity that points this direction. Of course, the way things seem to be changing lately, one never knows.
In two weeks there will be a substantial push headed the legislators way.
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